MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/53: Difference between revisions
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====Comments==== | ====Comments==== | ||
'''''Please note''''' that the Game Boy Advance versions of the ''Donkey Kong Country'' games '''''do not''''' have subtitles. Therefore, when referring to them, they should just be ''Donkey Kong Country 2'' and ''Donkey Kong Country 3''. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:27, 16 January 2019 (EST) | '''''Please note''''' that the Game Boy Advance versions of the ''Donkey Kong Country'' games '''''do not''''' have subtitles. Therefore, when referring to them, they should just be ''Donkey Kong Country 2'' and ''Donkey Kong Country 3''. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:27, 16 January 2019 (EST) | ||
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===Delete [[Do the Donkey Kong]]=== | ===Delete [[Do the Donkey Kong]]=== | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|4-0|Merge the article}} | {{ProposalOutcome|passed|4-0|Merge the article}} | ||
This article should just be a short section in [[List of | This article should just be a short section in [[List of references in music]]. It does not need an article for itself and can be turned into a redirect. See [[Talk:Do the Donkey Kong]]. | ||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Platform}}<br> | '''Proposer''': {{User|Platform}}<br> | ||
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As of right now, most of the boss stages for these two games still need articles. So far, only two exist: [[Kreepy Krow (level)]] and [[Krocodile Kore]]. However, these articles cover both the ''DKC2'' an ''DKL2'' versions of the stage, which is not consistent with how we cover the other levels in these games. The levels in ''DKC2'' and ''DKL2'', despite sharing names and themes, are split due to having different designs. The boss battles aren't identical between games either, so it makes sense to split these as well. | As of right now, most of the boss stages for these two games still need articles. So far, only two exist: [[Kreepy Krow (level)]] and [[Krocodile Kore]]. However, these articles cover both the ''DKC2'' an ''DKL2'' versions of the stage, which is not consistent with how we cover the other levels in these games. The levels in ''DKC2'' and ''DKL2'', despite sharing names and themes, are split due to having different designs. The boss battles aren't identical between games either, so it makes sense to split these as well. | ||
However, there is one I'm not sure about: [[Stronghold Showdown]]. Unlike everything else, this really is the same thing in both games - a small castle room with a short cutscene where DK is seen tied up before being taken to the Flying Krock. While splitting it would be consistent with all of the other ''DKC2''/''DKL2'' splits, it would also create two articles that are basically the same thing. The only game where Stronghold Showdown is actually different is the GBA version of ''DKC2'', where [[Kerozene]] is added as a boss. Plus, we've already [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 52#Split the levels exclusive to the Wii U version of Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker from their Super Mario 3D World counterparts|voted not to split]] the returning ''Super Mario 3D World'' levels in the Wii U version of ''Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker'' for a similar reason. | However, there is one I'm not sure about: [[Stronghold Showdown]]. Unlike everything else, this really is the same thing in both games - a small castle room with a short cutscene where DK is seen tied up before being taken to the Flying Krock. While splitting it would be consistent with all of the other ''DKC2''/''DKL2'' splits, it would also create two articles that are basically the same thing. The only game where Stronghold Showdown is actually different is the GBA version of ''DKC2'', where [[Kerozene]] is added as a boss. Plus, we've already [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/52#Split the levels exclusive to the Wii U version of Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker from their Super Mario 3D World counterparts|voted not to split]] the returning ''Super Mario 3D World'' levels in the Wii U version of ''Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker'' for a similar reason. | ||
'''Proposer''': {{User|7feetunder}}<br> | '''Proposer''': {{User|7feetunder}}<br> | ||
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===Merge Assist Trophies that have made minor appearances in the ''Mario'' franchise=== | ===Merge Assist Trophies that have made minor appearances in the ''Mario'' franchise=== | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|11-0|merge}} | {{ProposalOutcome|passed|11-0|merge}} | ||
'''(See [[MarioWiki:Proposals/ | '''(See [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/51#Smash_Bros._Articles:_What_Stays_and_What_Goes.3F|this proposal]] before voting.)''' | ||
After the merge for almost all of the categories listed in the linked proposal, there were a handful of pages that were left over, a number of them being [[Assist Trophy|Assist Trophies]]. The reason for this seems to be that they've made some sort of appearance in the ''Mario'' games, be it appearances as Mystery Mushroom [[Costume Mario|costumes]] in ''Super Mario Maker'' and cameos in ''WarioWare'' microgames. However, when you think about the fact that Mystery Mushroom costumes like Babymetal and microgame characters (both non-playable and playable, e.g. the [[Pikmin 2|Empress Bulbax]] or the [[Urban Champion]] fighter) don't have their own articles - which was part of the reason [[MarioWiki:Proposals/ | After the merge for almost all of the categories listed in the linked proposal, there were a handful of pages that were left over, a number of them being [[Assist Trophy|Assist Trophies]]. The reason for this seems to be that they've made some sort of appearance in the ''Mario'' games, be it appearances as Mystery Mushroom [[Costume Mario|costumes]] in ''Super Mario Maker'' and cameos in ''WarioWare'' microgames. However, when you think about the fact that Mystery Mushroom costumes like Babymetal and microgame characters (both non-playable and playable, e.g. the [[Pikmin 2|Empress Bulbax]] or the [[Urban Champion]] fighter) don't have their own articles - which was part of the reason [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/48#Decide_if_Nintendo_Badge_Arcade_constitutes_a_guest_appearance|Arcade Bunny was deleted]] - their still being separate doesn't quite make sense. We've already decided to merge the Assist Trophies, and minor appearances like these in any kind of ''Mario''-related media alone don't warrant separate articles. There have been a few that have already been picked off individually (adding to the inconsistency), [[Talk:Midna|including Midna's page]]; using that as a precedent, it's time we finish this in one fell swoop. | ||
For the sake of going with the original plan of enacting the changes to our ''Smash'' coverage one step at a time, I'm only focusing on the Assist Trophy characters in this proposal instead of every non-''Mario'' subject that may have articles out there, with one exception I found was similar enough to include (see below). | For the sake of going with the original plan of enacting the changes to our ''Smash'' coverage one step at a time, I'm only focusing on the Assist Trophy characters in this proposal instead of every non-''Mario'' subject that may have articles out there, with one exception I found was similar enough to include (see below). | ||
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====Comments==== | ====Comments==== | ||
fyi, even if this pass, I would strongy recommend against removing the Captain N info from the pages about the show's core cast (which is to say, Simon Pit and Mega Man) and Dr. Wily since they all interract with Donkey Kong at some point. Infact, one of the show's episode is about Simon Belmont getting knocked on the head, wake up thinking he's Donkey Kong Jr. and going out to find his "father". So yeah, bad idea. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 13:49, March 16, 2019 (EDT) | fyi, even if this pass, I would strongy recommend against removing the Captain N info from the pages about the show's core cast (which is to say, Simon Pit and Mega Man) and Dr. Wily since they all interract with Donkey Kong at some point. Infact, one of the show's episode is about Simon Belmont getting knocked on the head, wake up thinking he's Donkey Kong Jr. and going out to find his "father". So yeah, bad idea. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 13:49, March 16, 2019 (EDT) | ||
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:クッパJr.クリーチャープラント | :クッパJr.クリーチャープラント | ||
:溶岩でおおわれた、オタキング(黒)の待ち受ける惑星。 | :溶岩でおおわれた、オタキング(黒)の待ち受ける惑星。 | ||
:<br | :<br> | ||
:溶岩惑星のオタキング | :溶岩惑星のオタキング | ||
:足場が不安定な溶岩の上で、オタキング(黒)とバトル。 | :足場が不安定な溶岩の上で、オタキング(黒)とバトル。 | ||
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: | : | ||
:灼熱!怒りのガブリュウ | :灼熱!怒りのガブリュウ | ||
:ハラペコチコで異なるルートへ。 | :ハラペコチコで異なるルートへ。{{hover|灼熱|しゃくねつ}}状態となったガブリュウとバトル。 | ||
: | : | ||
:As far as the game and the Encycloepdia are concerned, Black King Kaliente and Black Gobblegut are treated in the same manner: | :As far as the game and the Encycloepdia are concerned, Black King Kaliente and Black Gobblegut are treated in the same manner: | ||
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:Eh, I don't think that really helps since you could easily interpret it both ways. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:29, March 22, 2019 (EDT) | :Eh, I don't think that really helps since you could easily interpret it both ways. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:29, March 22, 2019 (EDT) | ||
::I'd assume we wouldn't turn to the English copy of the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia for much? Given the controversy around English translations and such, but just in case, I did want to mention that the book has a more set name for Fire Gobblegut (being just that) while King Kaliente is only listed as "King Kaliente (Scorched)". {{User:Tails777/sig}} | ::I'd assume we wouldn't turn to the English copy of the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia for much? Given the controversy around English translations and such, but just in case, I did want to mention that the book has a more set name for Fire Gobblegut (being just that) while King Kaliente is only listed as "King Kaliente (Scorched)". {{User:Tails777/sig}} | ||
:::[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 52#Citing the Super Mario Encyclopedia|It's not possible to rely on that]], in any case we have the original Japanese text above. They both have the same naming scheme, ''name of the boss'' (''black''). Actually, the Japanese text doesn't even use ''Gobblegut (Black)'' in the description of the mission, it only uses ''Gobblegut'', while ''King Kaliente (Black)'' is specifically mentioned in both the description of Bowser Jr.'s Lava Reactor and in the description of the mission.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:35, March 22, 2019 (EDT) | :::[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/52#Citing the Super Mario Encyclopedia|It's not possible to rely on that]], in any case we have the original Japanese text above. They both have the same naming scheme, ''name of the boss'' (''black''). Actually, the Japanese text doesn't even use ''Gobblegut (Black)'' in the description of the mission, it only uses ''Gobblegut'', while ''King Kaliente (Black)'' is specifically mentioned in both the description of Bowser Jr.'s Lava Reactor and in the description of the mission.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:35, March 22, 2019 (EDT) | ||
::::Yeah, let's not. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 03:02, March 23, 2019 (EDT) | ::::Yeah, let's not. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 03:02, March 23, 2019 (EDT) | ||
:::::It's just too complicated. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:01, March 23, 2019 (EDT) | :::::It's just too complicated. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:01, March 23, 2019 (EDT) | ||
::::::Well, I didn't even know that had a proposal. Maybe I need to tune in a bit more often. In any case, that answers that. {{User:Tails777/sig}} | ::::::Well, I didn't even know that had a proposal. Maybe I need to tune in a bit more often. In any case, that answers that. {{User:Tails777/sig}} | ||
:::::::This might have directly been on King Kaliente then. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 08:41, March 24, 2019 (EDT) | :::::::This might have directly been on King Kaliente then. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 08:41, March 24, 2019 (EDT) | ||
===Change the source priority exception to a more case-by-case basis=== | ===Change the source priority exception to a more case-by-case basis=== | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|cancelled}} | {{ProposalOutcome|cancelled}} | ||
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'''Proposer:''' {{User|FanOfYoshi}}<br> | '''Proposer:''' {{User|FanOfYoshi}}<br> | ||
'''Deadline:''' April 8, 2019, 23:59 GMT | '''Deadline:''' April 8, 2019, 23:59 GMT<br> | ||
'''Date Withdrawn:''' April 3, 2019, 12:05 GMT | |||
====Make a more case-by-case basis (Determine each case individually)==== | ====Make a more case-by-case basis (Determine each case individually)==== | ||
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::Regarding the blue Lava Bubble, it was because i thought it was going to be a bit too confusing, as the normal Lava Bubble was also a "fire" Bubble. Regarding the red Urchin, it was because of the untranslated "Unizo" that i agreed for "Urchin (land)". It's not exactly a counterproposal, just altering the source priority for a more case-by-case basis. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 10:49, April 2, 2019 (EDT) | ::Regarding the blue Lava Bubble, it was because i thought it was going to be a bit too confusing, as the normal Lava Bubble was also a "fire" Bubble. Regarding the red Urchin, it was because of the untranslated "Unizo" that i agreed for "Urchin (land)". It's not exactly a counterproposal, just altering the source priority for a more case-by-case basis. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 10:49, April 2, 2019 (EDT) | ||
:::Fire Bubble seems to be a unique name as far as I can ascertain, and "Lava Bubble" is also used as the original name for Li'l Cinder in the first ''Super Mario Galaxy'''s Prima guide (with Li'l Brr being Ice Bubble), which the source priority exception proposal would actually help resolve. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 06:11, April 3, 2019 (EDT) | :::Fire Bubble seems to be a unique name as far as I can ascertain, and "Lava Bubble" is also used as the original name for Li'l Cinder in the first ''Super Mario Galaxy'''s Prima guide (with Li'l Brr being Ice Bubble), which the source priority exception proposal would actually help resolve. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 06:11, April 3, 2019 (EDT) | ||
===Either restrict usage of or don't use NTSC or PAL on articles=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|7-9-1|Use NTSC or PAL only for articles that relate to the older home consoles, while using the British or American English terminology for handheld consoles, the Wii U and the Nintendo Switch}} | |||
It's common knowledge to mention regional differences between versions of the same game across the globe and there's nothing wrong with that. You know what is, though? Using the terms "NTSC" and "PAL" when it actually wouldn't really apply that well in the first place. | |||
First of all, NTSC and PAL would really only apply for the older (analog) TV sets back in the day. Newer HDTVs don't really use the analog NTSC or PAL video standards anymore, instead going for digital standards like ATSC, ISDB or DTMB, for example. | |||
Second of all, NTSC and PAL are mainly used to denote which video standard is used for TVs, not so much for video games (except for rare cases in which the content is exactly the same as the American version, where the only difference is game speed thanks to the PAL format in question). | |||
Not only that, but several people are still insisting on using NTSC and PAL for certain cases when it really wouldn't make sense (for example, [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Shifty_Shrine&oldid=2613359 this revision of the Shifty Shrine article]). This needs to change. | |||
I'm proposing to replace either any or most instances of "NTSC" or "PAL" for video game regional differences with "American English" or "British English" whenever mentioned in articles. My reasons as for why are as follows: | |||
*The Game Boy, DS and Switch systems are region-free, meaning any game can work on any regional system. | |||
*Most translations into American and British English are basically almost identical (e.g. ''Kirby: Triple Deluxe,'' ''[[Mario Party 8]],'' etc.). There are the rare few (''[[Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U]],'' ''The Legend of Zelda: Tri Force Heroes,'' for example) that are completely different in many ways. | |||
*For the most part, only Europe, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand use the PAL standard for older video game consoles (before the Wii U). Japan, China, Korea, the US, Mexico and Canada use the NTSC standard for those games. Stating the PAL or NTSC version for games whose releases are on newer consoles that use 1080p graphics (Wii U and Switch, currently) or on portable systems (Game Boy, Game Boy Colour, Game Boy Advance, Nintendo DS or Nintendo 3DS) is just inaccurate. | |||
I foresee so many ways this proposal could go in these two weeks so I'm adding multiple options. These options could be the one with the most votes at the end instead of just one, so they are there just in case. If you guys have any suggestions for other options before the end of the first week, then that would be great. The currently available options at the moment are the following: | |||
#Replace any instance of NTSC and PAL for video game regional differences with American English and British English, respectively. My preferred choice. | |||
#Use American English and British English for articles that relate to games for the portable systems and the [[Wii U]] and [[Nintendo Switch]], but use NTSC and PAL for everything else. My second preferred choice. | |||
#Do absolutely nothing. I suggest that '''we do not pick this option under any circumstance.''' | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Owencrazyboy9}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': <s>March 29, 2019, 23:59 GMT</s> Extended to April 5, 2019, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Option 1: Use the American English and British English terminology wherever possible==== | |||
#{{User|Owencrazyboy9}} My preferred option. | |||
#{{User|Mister Wu}} I think this would simplify our life in the long term, taking us away from terms that are more and more losing usage and are problematic when used here even in the implied meaning of ''region'' due to Japan adopting NTSC as well, making the term ''NTSC region'' again an imprecise term | |||
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} After some thinking, yeah, maybe use this instead. After all, some of the newer users may be confused by the "NTSC" and "PAL" terminology, so it's best to inconvenience the least amount of users possible. | |||
#{{User|Doomhiker}} Option 2 is still works, but using the American English and British English terminology works in general and thus is more convenient. Using NTSC and PAl for everything (Our current setup for the most part, aka option 3) is downright incorrect as Owen explained, so this is my preferred option. Per all. | |||
#{{User|Yaronos}} Per all. Using PAL and NTSC will confuse new users, and with games like Captain Toad on Switch, it doesn't make any sense when both the American and British are on the same cart. | |||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} I'm not opposed to option 2, but I feel this option would be less confusing to readers. Per all. | |||
#{{User|7feetunder}} No need to confuse younger readers with techno babble. | |||
====Option 2: Use NTSC or PAL only for articles that relate to the older home consoles (NES, SNES, N64, GCN and Wii) / Use the British or American English terminology for handheld consoles, the Wii U and the Switch==== | |||
#{{User|Owencrazyboy9}} Second preferred option. After all, NTSC and PAL only apply to the analog TV sets. | |||
#{{User|bwburke94}} NTSC/PAL is valid distinction for older home consoles. | |||
#{{User|Mister Wu}} Second valid alternative, requires us less work and the older home consoles had effectively a PAL/NTSC-only output | |||
#{{User|Alex95}} - This one makes the most sense to me. | |||
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Second option. | |||
#{{User|SmokedChili}} Per all, makes the most sense to me. | |||
#{{User|MarioManiac1981}} It makes perfect sense to keep old terminologies in articles pertaining to old games. | |||
#{{User|GrainedCargo192}} This is the best option. Per all. | |||
#{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} Per all. | |||
====Option 3: Do absolutely nothing==== | |||
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Errr, current setup is perfectly fine. Why making a proposal about it? | |||
====Comments==== | |||
From what I've seen, people don't say that they're "NTSC" or "PAL," but say "NTSC region" or "PAL region," which works as a shorthand way of denoting the regional split where differences tend to crop up. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:43, March 14, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:Uh, interesting. Never knew that until now (either that, or I never really saw that crop up that often). For the most part, whenever people mention it, they usually say "NTSC version" or "PAL version." – [[User:Owencrazyboy9|Owencrazyboy9]] ([[User talk:Owencrazyboy9|talk]]) 21:58, March 14, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::Yeah, ''NTSC region'' and ''PAL region'' are barely used on this wiki, if at all. There's also the issue that NTSC is used in Japan as well, so I can see why ''NTSC region'' isn't really used that much.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:38, March 14, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:::I've mostly sen it in regards to the original ''Luigi's Mansion'', where it ''is'' a difference in-line with said TV parameter differences. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:06, March 14, 2019 (EDT) | |||
I don't really see a need for this proposal, personally. If there's inaccurate terminology being used on the wiki, it should be fixed on a case-by-case basis. I'm sure there's cases where NTSC/PAL is accurate, cases where American/British English is accurate, and cases where neither phrasing would be accurate and something else would need to be used. -- [[User:1337star|1337star]] <sup>([[User talk:1337star|Mailbox SP]])</sup> 13:21, March 21, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:There's actually a need of this proposal since the usage of those terms stems from rules written in the [[MarioWiki:Glossary|glossary]]. Considering how NTSC and PAL output are at this point almost completely phased out, it makes sense to consider a revision or an update of the glossary.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:13, March 21, 2019 (EDT) | |||
@FanofYoshi: No, it's not perfectly fine. NTSC and PAL themselves are basically no longer accurate to today's current advancements of technology. The Wii U and Switch use an HDMI connection, which uses digital connections, not analog. Portable systems, like the Game Boy and 3DS, don't really use NTSC or PAL connections, because they are...well portable. Older home consoles do use NTSC or PAL analog connections, though. – [[User:Owencrazyboy9|Owencrazyboy9]] ([[User talk:Owencrazyboy9|talk]]) 13:45, March 26, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:I'll admit I did not know what either of those were in reference to until after some amount of time of browsing this site. And I started browsing it back around in 3rd-4th grade age. So if it wasn't understandable by kids ''then'', it certainly won't ''now''. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:51, March 26, 2019 (EDT) | |||
===Recreate the numbered Mario Kart redirects=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|13-0|restore redirects}} | |||
The recent [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Throw_Block&curid=280139&action=history controversy over the new Throw Block redirect] threw me back to a certain proposal made almost two years ago. Yes, I'm talking about [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/49#Delete certain numbered Mario Kart redirects|this travesty]] that, despite being a clear violation of the redirect policy then, and even moreso now, still somehow passed 12-7, deleting all the numbered Mario Kart redirects that could have actually helped people who wanted to know what, say, the fourth Mario Kart game was. | |||
All the reasons given on the support side of that linked proposal are flawed. To quote my vote in that proposal: "''According to [[MarioWiki:Redirects]], "If there's even a small chance that a redirect will help someone, it's not useless." And while there may only be one person in the world who calls them that, that's more then zero; hence, '''they're not useless'''.''" | |||
That point still stands up today, and in fact, our current redirect policy, in bold text even, says, "'''There is no need to delete alternate name, conjectural, or spelling-mistake redirects unless they are specifically too silly or too general.'''" It really couldn't be more clear than that. | |||
I don't know how that proposal passed by such a wide margin, or why no one's attempted to overturn it since, but it's time to right this wrong that's haunted me for eighteen months. | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|YoshiFlutterJump}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': May 16, 2019, 11:59 GMT | |||
====Support==== | |||
#{{User|YoshiFlutterJump}} Per my proposal, my vote in the last one, and in fact literally the entire opposition in the last one. | |||
#{{User|Owencrazyboy9}} Reading this proposal has convinced me that those sorts of redirects are fine, as long as they help at least one person navigate the wiki. Per YoshiFlutterJump. | |||
#{{User|TheDarkStar}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Niiue}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} Per all. | |||
#{{user|Mario jc}} Yeah, I never really liked the idea of having those numbered redirects deleted. Someone unfamiliar with the franchise might want to know what the fourth ''Mario Kart'' game is and search up "mario kart 4" and find ''Double Dash!!'', which is what redirects are for. There are still some [[Super Smash Bros. 3|"(series) (number)" redirects]] still lying around that were never taken care of either. | |||
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Undeleting it like [[Blurp (Yoshi's Story)]] seems plausible, and redirecting is fine, but not outright deleted. | |||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Doomhiker}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|HEROMARIO}} Per Owencrazyboy9. | |||
#{{User|MarioManiac1981}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Obsessive Mario Fan}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|WeirdDave13}} Per all. | |||
====Oppose==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
There has to be some sort of notability line we draw when it comes to making redirects. Otherwise you can use that "redirects are never useless" argument to justify all sorts of names like Mayro Kratt and Luggy. Who actually calls Mario Kart Double Dash by its numerical order on the franchise? Common sense is applied here, and I don't see the rationale for making numerical redirects convincing and they do not establish what sort of line we draw on redirects. Rather, it just seems this proposal is just "create redirects because we can". {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 18:51, May 9, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:It's all a matter of "Oh, I wonder what the fourth Mario Kart is...I'll just try typing in 'Mario Kart 4' and see what I get". Not everyone is going to have the immediate urge to type in "Mario Kart (series)" to see what the fourth Mario Kart was. Why take them to the search page when we already know what they want? It's inconveniencing our readers on purpose, which is counterproductive to our goal as a wiki. And also, we don't have "Mayro Kratt" or "Luggy" because they're deemed too silly to be any use. That's entirely irrelevant to this. -{{User:YoshiFlutterJump/sig}} 19:08, May 9, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:Except those are completely nonsensical terms, which is specifically what [[MarioWiki:Redirects]] discourages. The numbered ones at least have some validity. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 20:06, May 9, 2019 (EDT) | |||
I guess that is a counterproposal? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:39, May 10, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:You could call it that. This proposal aims to directly overturn the one from November 2017, and recreate all redirects that were deleted because of said proposal. -{{User:YoshiFlutterJump/sig}} 12:18, May 10, 2019 (EDT) | |||
Wouldn't these numbered redirects fall under being too general though? [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 04:16, May 11, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:A redirect that is too general would be one that could refer to multiple things (excluding certain abbreviation redirects). For example, MK2 could only refer to the second ''Mario Kart'' game, ''Mario Kart 64''. Even then, as mentioned we already have other numbered redirects such as [[Super Smash Bros. 3]]. {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 06:03, May 11, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::Okay, point taken. But both pages explaining redirects are mostly about inexact phrases and variations, and one issue I see with them is that they don't say anything about fan-made names or terms which is what "Super Smash Bros. 3" is. For being helpful to even just one person, this would also run at the risk of their search for "Mario Kart 2" causing them to misunderstand it as "''Mario Kart 64'' is ''Mario Kart 2''" and at worst spreading that around because "it was on Mario Wiki". [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 10:30, May 11, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:::I've said it many times before, and I'll say it again. Redirects are ''not'' part of our knowledgebase. They are merely a tool to assist someone in their search for a certain article without typing in the exact name, allowing them to skip the dreaded search page. If someone wants to know what the second Mario Kart is, they're not going to type in "Mario Kart (series)". No, the average person will type in "Mario Kart 2". As I've said before, we already know where they want to go. Why suppress the page from them? -{{User:YoshiFlutterJump/sig}} 13:59, May 11, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::::So now it's from "maybe only one person" to "the average person"? How do you know they wouldn't type something like "second Mario Kart" into the search bar instead? [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 14:57, May 11, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:::::I don't know what you're talking about. "The average person" is certainly at least one person. But if they type "second Mario Kart" they're clearly trying to go to the search page, whereas someone who types in "Mario Kart 2" likely thinks that's the actual name of the game, and clearly isn't trying to go to the search page. There is a difference here. -{{User:YoshiFlutterJump/sig}} 15:06, May 11, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::::::One person isn't an "average person" among who knows how many if he's the only one to search about "Mario Kart 2". If someone wants to search about "second Mario Kart", what's stopping us to make a redirect for that then? At least it has more basis in reality than "Mario Kart 2". [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 15:37, May 11, 2019 (EDT) | |||
"this travesty" <s>I'm hurt</s>.<br>I'm not sure if I want to support going back on my proposal yet, but I do think there should be a line drawn here somewhere. Fan-created terms specifically meant to be a redirect (not a conjectural term that was moved from a page and became a redirect) I don't think should be made. Using "Throw Block" as an example, it's actually pretty vague and it can refer to [[Ice Block|any]] [[Propeller Block|throwable]] [[Crate|block]]. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 15:44, May 11, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:As you said the conjectural part of the redirect policy is vague and should be cleared up, as it could refer either to long-time conjectural wiki names or all conjectural names. If it is cleared up then it would be much easier to determine which redirects should and should not stay. Thinking about it, I do now agree the Throw Block is too general and should be deleted, but I think that the numbered redirects could genuinely help someone, and thus should stay. Anyways, if the numbered ''Mario Kart'' redirects cannot stay, then the other unofficial numbered redirects such as ''Super Smash Bros. 3'' cannot either. I also agree that a line should be drawn, but the problem is where. {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 16:45, May 11, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:I wasn't really calling the proposal itself a "travesty", that was more directed toward its passing, as it still somehow passed despite the opposition having far stronger reasons than the support, and the fact that it wasn't exactly supported by policy. The policy does say, or at least imply, that unless a redirect is too silly or general, it's a redirect worth creating. Maybe "Throw Block" does cross the line of too general. But the numbered kart redirects could actually be useful to someone and definitely wouldn't take someone somewhere they wouldn't want to go. There's nothing to be lost in making redirects, anyway. So why not have them? -{{User:YoshiFlutterJump/sig}} 16:56, May 11, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::I am not sure where to draw the line, either. There are a few situations that are best handled case by case. And with the current policy, we shouldn't have too much trouble figuring out what stays and what doesn't. Numbered games seem like a good way to redirect people want to know the nth game of a series without them needing them to search the series pages, but it isn't necessary for all series. We don't need it where series entries are not important (like Mario Golf and Mario Tennis). It is best to treat redirects case by case. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 17:25, May 11, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:::This was brought up in the previous proposal, but due to ''[[Mario Kart 7]]'' and ''[[Mario Kart 8]]'' being numbered more casual fans may not know the more complex names in the series and assume that all games in the series are numbered, similar to the classic mainline ''Mega Man'' and ''Mega Man X'' series' games. I think that game series that already have ''some'' numbered entries should have numbered redirects regardless, but series with consistently unique names such as the ones you mentioned above would not really need numbered redirects except for maybe the first entry of those series if they have the series' title as their title such as how some people call the original ''The Legend of Zelda'' "''Zelda 1''". The redirect ''Super Smash Bros. 3'' may not be needed, though, as due to the game's popularity pretty much everyone knows its actual name, ''Super Smash Bros. Brawl''. Anyways, it is a good idea to treat redirects case-by-case. {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 17:51, May 11, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::::Perhaps the numbered redirects could be recreated, idk. They aren't exactly "fan-created" per se, I guess, considering ''MK7'' and ''MK8'' refer to previous titles. I do think a fan created term should not be created purely for redirect's sake, but that's a discussion for another time. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 23:07, May 11, 2019 (EDT) | |||
Just to clarify, what is the list of redirects you'd like to make and what would be the source for that list? Even though I have an idea for both the answers, I think having them explicitly given is very important for this proposal.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:20, May 11, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:If this passes, all redirects that were deleted in the last proposal will be recreated here. -{{User:YoshiFlutterJump/sig}} 23:13, May 11, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::It'd be admins that'd impliment that proposal IMO, as they can undelete pages, so the previous histories of the redirect don't get lost. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 03:57, May 12, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:::There's no need to preserve the practically nonexistent histories of the redirects. It's fine, I can do it myself. -{{User:YoshiFlutterJump/sig}} 14:30, May 12, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::::Eh, I don't see a problem with restoring them if need be. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 16:12, May 12, 2019 (EDT) | |||
===Decide on a phrase to describe crossover appearances with the ''Mario'' franchise=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|0-0-1-1-12-1|"Mario-related media"}} | |||
The way non-Mario character infoboxes describe their crossovers with Mario is currently inconsistent from page to page. For example, [[Squirtle]]'s appearances with Mario are described as "crossovers with the ''Mario'' franchise", while [[Sonic the Hedgehog]]'s are described simply as "crossover installments". The goal of this proposal is to decide on a particular formula from those available on the wiki. Here's the options: | |||
*'''Crossover installments:''' to me, this is too vague. It seems like it could refer to any crossover installment, not necessarily linked to Mario. | |||
*'''''Mario'' crossovers:''' This is not too bad, but it puts too much emphasis on Mario, and the ''Super Smash Bros.'' games, for example, aren't all about Mario. | |||
*'''''Mario'' franchise crossovers:''' Same as above, but it's more explicit as to what kind of "Mario" it refers to (not the character). | |||
*'''Crossovers with the ''Mario'' franchise:''' This seems to be the best way to put it, but the downside is that it occupies a lot of space in the infobox. | |||
*'''<small>(NEW)</small> ''Mario''-related media:''' Seems to be popular and frankly, it describes crossover appearances perfectly without making use of nerdy jargon ("crossover"). | |||
And, the guest star of the show: | |||
*'''Do nothing.''' | |||
Feel free to add any other options that you can think of below. | |||
A rather minor proposal, I know, but it's small changes like these that make a difference! Or not. Maybe I'm just an organizational maniac. | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Bye Guy}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': May 18, 2019, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Crossover installments==== | |||
====''Mario'' crossovers==== | |||
====''Mario'' franchise crossovers==== | |||
#{{User|MarioManiac1981}} My preferred option. | |||
====Crossovers with the ''Mario'' franchise==== | |||
#{{User|Obsessive Mario Fan}} I think this one would work | |||
====''Mario''-related media==== | |||
#{{User|Bye Guy}} my preferred choice | |||
#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} I think this one would work best as it would also work for characters who appear in non-crossover ''Mario'' games as cameos or as guest characters (Such as Pac-Man, whose first ''Mario''-related appearance is ''Mario Kart Arcade GP'', or the ''Final Fantasy'' characters in ''Mario Hoops 3-on-3''). | |||
#{{User|Alex95}} - I asked for this, so I'm voting for it. Per BBQ Turtle. | |||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|YoshiFlutterJump}} Per BBQ Turtle. | |||
#{{User|Niiue}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|7feetunder}} Per BBQ Turtle. | |||
#{{User|WeirdDave13}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|TheDarkStar}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|EDShoot}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Doomhiker}} Per all. | |||
====Do nothing==== | |||
#{{User|HEROMARIO}} Per FanOfYoshi. | |||
<s>#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} I see no reason to change anything at all.</s> | |||
====Comments==== | |||
Would "Mario-related media" work as an option?<br>@HEROMARIO, your vote is very vague. What does it mean? {{User:Alex95/sig}} 15:35, May 11, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:I added it. {{User:Bye Guy/Sig}} 07:47, May 12, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::Why do we have to change anything at all? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:19, May 13, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:::It's always professional to find a rule for situations like these and be consistent with it. That said, I have a terrible time deciding things by myself unless I have someone else's opinion, so I made a proposal. There was once a [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/48#Colons in navigation templates|proposal]] to remove the colon in title abbreviations used in the code of certain game-related nav templates. It might seem minor, but the punctilious nature of the proposal itself stresses that this wiki is (to a great extent) serious business. -- {{User:Bye Guy/Sig}} 19:27, May 13, 2019 (EDT) | |||
===Delete minor species navigation templates=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|1-10|keep}} | |||
I've noticed a large amount of navigation templates for minor species, like [[Template:Octoombas]] and [[Template:Bandits]]. Most of them are just categories in template form, and a large amount of them ''already'' have categories for that exact purpose. However, navigation templates for major enemies, like [[Template:Goombas]], [[Template:Koopa Troopas]], and [[Template:Wigglers]] can stay, because they have a large amount of variants and have appeared in a large amount of games. EDIT: A "minor" nav template would be classified as a nav template with less than ten entries and has a category for its exact purpose. | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|TheDarkStar}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': June 13, 2019, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Support==== | |||
#{{User|TheDarkStar}} Per proposal. | |||
====Oppose==== | |||
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} In what way is this helpful? Strong, strong, strongstrongstrongsrong oppose to this. This is outright detrimental in every way. As I have said, the Bandit one exists to get them off the Shy Guy template because of how overly-large ''it'' is. | |||
#{{User|Baby Luigi}} I see little reason to remove templates designed to make things easier to navigate. You didn't really specify a point where a template is deemed "minor" enough for deletion, and I can't really have that vague wording when it comes to policy. | |||
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all. I see no reason to delete at all. Also, i think the Octogoombas template should be undeleted. | |||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all, the templates help make navigation easier, and are organized differently than the categories. | |||
#{{User|Obsessive Mario Fan}} Per all. I initially thought otherwise, but I realized even minor navigation templates make navigation easier. Templates containing 2 or 3 links are unneeded, but these can stay. | |||
#{{User|Doomhiker}} Per all. You see, even when there is a category-template actual readers may not know about category pages or how to reach them, so a template that is on the page with better organization can be genuinely helpful. Even with smaller templates, as it is still nice to have all pertaining links in one place without having to search the article for them, as sub-species do not link to all of the other members of their species in their infobox (See [[Elite Octoomba]], which does not link to [[Octoboo]] for example). So, I also agree on undeleteing the Octoomba template if this option passes due to the above, especially since it had a distinction between enemies and bosses. | |||
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Your reasoning makes little sense. The reason [[Template:Octoombas]] was deleted was because it literally ''was'' a category in template form. Every other template was split into the helpful "characters" and "species" navigation. That's why they work. | |||
#{{User|Pseudo}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|WeirdDave13}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Niiue}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|King Marth 64}} Per all. | |||
====Comments==== | |||
Interesting scenario. I'm not too sure how to proceed either. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 12:42, June 7, 2019 (EDT) | |||
Exactly what templates do you think should be effected by this? {{User:Alex95/sig}} 13:08, June 7, 2019 (EDT) | |||
Additional note: The "category in template form" thing was made because a loooooooong time ago, there were nav templates on here for things like fire creatures and birds. I remember those days. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:40, June 7, 2019 (EDT) | |||
@TDA I am pretty sure that Template:Octoombas '''was''' split into "characters" and "species" navigation, due to the Octoomba bosses. {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 08:23, June 9, 2019 (EDT) | |||
===Create articles on Play Nintendo games=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|green|create 12-0}} | |||
We have a whole [[Template:Computer|template]] for computer games, which includes browser games. For Play Nintendo games and quizzes, Some articles [[What does THAT thing do?|have]] [[Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker Fun Quiz|been]] [[Mini Mario & Friends: amiibo Challenge Trivia Quiz|created]], but links to them on the [[Play Nintendo|main article]] were removed. I think we should come to an agreement if we're going to make articles on them or not. | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Obsessive Mario Fan}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': June 23, 2019, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Support==== | |||
#{{User|Obsessive Mario Fan}} We already have articles on many other browser games, I don't see why we should leave these out. | |||
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} I agree for articles on Play Nintendo. Per proposal, and by extension... Per Obsessive Mario Fan. | |||
#{{User|TheDarkStar}} Per proposal. | |||
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} This doesn't really need a proposal. | |||
#{{User|WeirdDave13}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Scrooge200}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Alex95}} - Sure, per all. | |||
#{{User|Niiue}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Doomhiker}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|King Marth 64}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Mister Wu}} As long as they are actual games instead of just activities, I agree | |||
====Oppose==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
[https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Play_Nintendo&diff=2634659&oldid=2634128 This] edit is what made me wonder if the articles are really necessary. {{User:Obsessive Mario Fan/sig}} 22:14, June 16, 2019 (EDT) | |||
Looks like lots of users agree. [[New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe Power-Ups Trivia Quiz|I already started working on these articles, anyway.]] {{User:Obsessive Mario Fan/sig}} 17:04, June 22, 2019 (EDT) | |||
===Merge at least some of Bowser's forms=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|0-18-0|merge everything except Meowser}} | |||
Okay, [[Fire Koopa|what]] [[Frog Koopa|are]] [[Raccoon Koopa|these]] doing as separate articles? In all honesty, I don't think they really warrant separate articles at all, seeing as how they're identical to the base form. Therefore, I propose that the following merges take place: | |||
*[[Fire Koopa]] to [[Fire Mario]] | |||
*[[Frog Koopa]] to [[Frog Mario]] | |||
*[[Raccoon Koopa]] to [[Raccoon Mario]] | |||
*[[Metal Bowser]] to [[Metal Mario|Metal Mario (form)]] | |||
*[[Meowser]] to [[Cat Mario]] (or not, for reasons stated below) | |||
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Toadette the Achiever}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline:''' July 6, 2019, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Merge everything==== | |||
====Merge everything except Meowser==== | |||
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} I think this is the best option by a long shot. Meowser is at least distinct and has several traits that differ from the Cat forms of other characters (such as swiping his tail in ''[[Super Mario 3D World]]'' and the fact that he is a separate entity in ''[[Super Mario Maker 2]]''). The other mentioned forms that Bowser takes, on the other hand, all appear exclusively in one work each (''[[The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3]]'' episode "[[Super Koopa (episode)|Super Koopa]]" for the former three and definitely ''[[Mario Party 2]]'' for the latter), and don't deviate much from the base abilities of each respective form (other than the fact that Bowser could easily combine and interchange forms in said episode). | |||
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} These are minor forms, and merging Meowser would cause a horrible inconsistency (just like the King Kaliente). We have Fiery Gobblegut and the pink Hisstocrat, then why not Meowser? | |||
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per Toadette. | |||
#{{User|Propeller Toad}} The articles of the Bowser/Koopa forms from ''The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3'' are products of the Wiki's earlier days. As charming as they may be, I agree that these articles should be merged with their respective power-up form pages. However, I too believe that Meowser alone should be kept as a separate article as this form is a major aspect of the final boss fight in ''Super Mario 3D World'' as well Meowser's ability to use other attacks including Bowser's trademark fire breath as well as the tail whip (all of which are not present on any of the playable characters that can gain the Cat form). In addition to the unique name of the form, I personally feel this article is significant enough to stand alone along with passing references to it in the Cat Mario page (as already seen). | |||
#{{User|bwburke94}} Per Toadette and Propeller Toad. | |||
#{{User|WeirdDave13}} Per all | |||
#{{User|Alex95}} - Per all. | |||
#{{User|TheDarkStar}} - Per all. | |||
#{{User|Sdman213}} - Per all. | |||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Supermariofan67}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|LudwigVon}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Trig Jegman}} - Same deal same spiel: Per all. | |||
#{{User|Doomhiker}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Obsessive Mario Fan}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Owencrazyboy9}} That's a lot of supporters! Per all. | |||
#{{User|Mister Wu}} Meowser doesn't have the standard appearance of a Cat form character nor does he have the same abilities, so it makes sense to keep him separate | |||
====Do nothing==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
@FanOfYoshi: I don't see your point about consistency. Fire Gobblegut and Pink Hisstocrat are different entities from their standard counterparts. Meowser and Fire King Kaliente (afaik) are not. The reason that Meowser should stay is because he has an entirely different attack pattern from both standard Bowser and Cat Mario, and he is also more significant than the other forms of Bowser. -{{User:YoshiFlutterJump/sig}} 12:30, June 30, 2019 (EDT) | |||
Aside from these, I'd also like to point out [[Metal Bowser]] also has his own page which seems unnecessary. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 15:14, June 30, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:Added. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 19:49, June 30, 2019 (EDT) | |||
===Strategies=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|cancelled}} | |||
I noticed the Wiki doesn't really allow much strategies on here for boss battles for example. But I personally think it would be a good thing to have on here since if there are users who rely on the wiki as a guide for certain things (which I usually do), then it would be very helpful. The Kingdom Hearts Wiki has strategies on it so why not here? | |||
'''Proposer''':{{User|Mario Sakuraba}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': July 22, 2019, 23:59 GMT<br> | |||
'''Cancelation''': July 16, 2019 | |||
====Support==== | |||
#{{User|Mario Sakuraba}} I know I'm not the best with words, but surely this sort of thing can't hurt right? | |||
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} That seems plausible. | |||
#{{User|Scrooge200}} This isn’t much different from including solutions to puzzles for RPGs. | |||
====Oppose==== | |||
#{{User|Tails777}} While I do believe showcasing strategies wouldn't be a bad idea, the thing is that different strategies work for different people. A section for strategies could get filled up really easily if multiple people use different tactics for the same fight. Sure, there aren't a whole lot of ways to beat bosses in the core games, but for RPG titles, there are so many ways to defeat bosses, which leads to many different strategies. A strategy section would just end up getting filled with so many different opinions and this Wiki sticks to more official material over fan material. | |||
#{{User|TheDarkStar}} OK, imagine this. [[Megaleg]] gets a strategy section containing one strategy. Climb up the legs and make the Bullet Bills blow up the cage. Another user might add another strategy, like, say, running up the back leg to get the 1-Up there. And it goes on, with things like "Destroy all of the second cage for a guarantee at blowing up the inner cage!" (which would be slightly impractical, as the cage regenerates) and "No, just lure two bullets like you're supposed to!". This would lead to unnecessary editwars and constant disruption. | |||
#{{User|Lord Grammaticus}} "The Kingdom Hearts Wiki has strategies on it so why not here?" Because we'e not the Kingdom Hearts Wiki, i.e. we have our own standards for determining how much of a level we should cover. I've actually wondered if we couldn't be a bit more descriptive in terms of stages and the like, but at the same time I recognize that MarioWiki's goals isn't to tell people how to play the games - there's countless strategy guides and walkthroughs for that, and the multiple methods of clearing a level, along with the varying skill levels of players, make it more than a little impractical (and that's before factoring in the likely edit wars from treating these pages as such). KHWiki found something that works, good for them, but we do things differently, and by the standard here that doesn't seem like too good of an idea. | |||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all. This has the potential to get very messy very fast. | |||
====Comments==== | |||
===Merge all doctor versions of characters into their respective article (excluding Dr. Mario)=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|31-0|merge}} | |||
Currently, with the recent release of ''[[Dr. Mario World]]'' as well as recent information planning many more doctor variants of characters, I propose that we merge all doctor alter-egos into their respective articles. As it stands, there's going to be plenty of them, and having separate articles for all variants of each character is excessive and makes it difficult to navigate. It's also not like none of the information they have can't easily be stated in their respective articles under a respective ''Dr. Mario World'' header and adding necessary information to their respective stats pages. | |||
Of course, Dr. Mario himself is an exception to this rule, solely because he has appeared as a [[Dr. Mario|separate character]] from Mario in the ''[[Super Smash Bros. (series)|Super Smash Bros.]]'' series (and a weird obscure Kondansha's Mario manga) and considering his veteran status of appearing in multiple games of a series even named after himself, I think it's better off his page remains the way it is. | |||
Articles affected: | |||
*[[Dr. Luigi]] | |||
*[[Dr. Bowser]] | |||
*[[Dr. Peach]] | |||
*[[Dr. Toad]] | |||
*Dr. Yoshi (red-linked on the Dr. Mario World page) | |||
*Dr. Toadette (red-linked on the Dr. Mario World page) | |||
*Dr. Bowser Jr. (red-linked on the Dr. Mario World page) | |||
*Dr. Wendy (red-linked on the Dr. Mario World page) | |||
*Dr Ludwig (red-linked on the Dr. Mario World page) | |||
*Any of the potential planned doctor characters (eg Dr. Baby Luigi) | |||
'''Proposer''': {{User|Baby Luigi}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline''': July 17, 2019, 23:59 GMT | |||
====Support==== | |||
#{{User|Baby Luigi}} I really just want an excuse to write Dr. Baby Luigi. Yes he's canon now. | |||
#{{User|Owencrazyboy9}} Per Baby Luigi. No, not [[Baby Luigi|this one]]. | |||
#{{User|Alex95}} - These aren't separate characters or a new power-up, it's literally the same character in a different outfit. While that and the new abilities could qualify them as a power-up, there's no "Doctor Mushroom" or anything involved here. | |||
#{{User|Iceblock715}} - I'm almost certain that it's just a costume intended to fit the aesthetic of the series, so full support. | |||
#{{User|Trig Jegman}} oh no they have a different outfit, clearly we must overanalyze the same character by trying to make a new page for it. Yeah...no. As Alex said over there, there is no transformation or change here besides clothing. If we were to switch how we approach costume changes to all other games, think of ''how truly awful [[Super Mario Odyssey]] would be''. With the exception of like...Luigi, most of those pages are short enough that an extra paragraph wouldn't hurt. | |||
#{{User|TheDarkStar}} Per Trig Jegman. | |||
#{{User|LudwigVon}} Per all. | |||
#{{user|Obsessive Mario Fan}} Per all. Although, I'm wondering if [[Dr. Luigi]] should be kept because he was in other games...but that would be the only reason to keep his article. | |||
#{{user|LinkTheLefty}} Per proposal, though if we're going to limit coverage of the doctor personas then I figure we should also add a character identifier to the current "Dr. Mario" article and make either the game or series the main article. | |||
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Tails777}} The moment I saw the potential for all those other Dr. characters, I immediately thought "are all these articles REALLY going to be necessary?" Heck I even thought of making a proposal myself, but you beat me too it. Either way, I fully support merging all of them into their original characters (and despite his earlier establishment, even Dr. Luigi). I also agree with Dr. Mario as the exception. Basically, you beat me to the punch so per all. | |||
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Yeah, my immediate thought was that this is going way overboard and only done for consistency with Dr. Mario. If there was more to say about their doctor personas, I'd think twice, but there's barely anything interesting to say about them, even Dr. Luigi. | |||
#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Per all, I was planning on questioning this myself anyway. | |||
#{{User|Power Flotzo}} Sure, per all. | |||
#{{User|bwburke94}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Swiftie_Luma}} Strongly agree. These characters are clearly just the same regular ones with a coat and some sort of doctor license, they are not separate. I would argue that even if we treat Dr. Mario as separate as well due to him being in more stuff and such, he is technically just Mario in the end, just another variant and we know variants of characters can appear in the same capacity during events such as Mario Kart for example. Bottom line aside from Dr. Mario, i think others having their own page would be more confusing, messy and highly pointless. | |||
#{{User|Doomhiker}} Per all. | |||
#{{user|Mario jc}} Per proposal; I started having second thoughts as more doctors were announced (though I should have anticipated this with it having gacha elements and all). | |||
#{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} That intrigued me for a while. Proof that they're separate? | |||
#{{User|EDShoot}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Bazooka Mario}} Dr. Mario is a dirty doctor. | |||
#{{User|Mister Wu}} Especially considering what is stated in the comments - that these ''doctors'' literally are just outfit changes, not even forms - and considering how many pages with little content would need to be made, it's just better to add these to the character pages | |||
#{{User|Memoryman3}} Agreed. Dr. Mario being the only exception because of Smash. | |||
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} I would even take it a step further and simply merge all of the non-''Smash'' Dr. Mario info into the Mario article, but this is at least a start. | |||
#{{User|Niiue}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Lord Grammaticus}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Sdman213}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|YoshiFlutterJump}} Per all. These Doctor forms don't need separate articles at all. I'd even take Toadette's line of reasoning here because Smash is the only thing that really makes Dr. Mario distinct. But at the very least, I would also give the games identifier priority over the "characters" with the passing of this proposal. | |||
#{{User|GrainedCargo192}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Supermariofan67}} Per all. | |||
====Oppose==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
@HEROMARIO: No, they're not different characters - the opening scene after Stage 10 literally has Peach and Bowser throw on doctor clothing to help Mario stop the virus outbreak in the Mushroom Kingdom. Secondly, their stats are different? Every single Mario spin-off game has each character go through slightly different statistics each game, so that argument is also not valid at all. – [[User:Owencrazyboy9|Owencrazyboy9]] ([[User talk:Owencrazyboy9|talk]]) 16:26, July 10, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:Shouldn't this be a multi-option proposal? Consistent with the Bowser forms proposal, if there is someone interested in merging everyone including Dr. Mario (which i'd prefer it stays). --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 02:01, July 11, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::Merging Dr. Mario would be a mess, and even if it passed the page would have to remain to cover Smash. I doubt anyone would support it. And even if Dr. Mario is just Mario, there's [[Mr. L|precedent for splitting alter-egos]] that have enough information to warrant their own article. Besides, just because it's not an option here doesn't mean it can't be brought up as a TPP later. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 13:30, July 11, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:::With the "General information" section I added back on December 29, 2018 (yeah, don't ask me how I remember these dates), Dr. Mario's article would have to remain not just to cover his ''Smash'' appearances, but information relating to his design, design evolution, alternate outfits, and evolution of his portrayals. Yeah, I agree with Waluigi Time; if Mr. L and [[Rookie]] can stay, then so can D.M. [[User:MarioManiac1981|MarioManiac1981]] ([[User talk:MarioManiac1981|talk]]) 21:26, July 14, 2019 (EST) |
Latest revision as of 12:31, April 1, 2024
Split Diddy Kong Pilot into Diddy Kong Pilot (2001) and Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)split 12-0 Proposer: Results May Vary (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsIs this really a good idea? We have all sorts of genre-jumping tech demos and such in the pre-release and unused content articles, after all. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:12, 15 January 2019 (EST)
Delete certain Game & Watch game articlesDelete 6-2 If this proposal passes, the following articles will be deleted: This would also prevent the currently-redlinked Dynamite Jack and The Wily Bomber articles from being made, as they are only characters who appear in these games. Proposer: Waluigi Time (talk) Support
Oppose
CommentsI think we should review MarioWiki:Coverage but common sense tells me that those articles really aren't needed. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 15:47, 21 January 2019 (EST) @FanOfYoshi: Yes, work was put into them, but that's a moot point if they're not related to the Mario series. They shouldn't be merged either, as they have no place here. Someone could make an original write up of the entire history of Link in every Zelda game on his page, but it's not relevant to the Mario series so it would be removed regardless of the effort put in to make it. Besides, everything on this wiki is work, so how is this different than deleting, trimming, or rewriting any other article? -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 10:44, 22 January 2019 (EST)
Considering I was the one to tell Dwitney to make these, I should probably weigh in here. In MarioWiki:Coverage, the Game & Watch series is marked under two sections: Crossovers and Guest Appearances, both of which we cover. I suppose it could also fall under Package Deals, which we only cover the Mario aspects of. This was a bit of a confusing matter for me, and Flagman apparently appears in Wario Land II according to Doc von Schmeltwick. I think this is something we could cover, but if consensus is we shouldn't, Nintendo Wiki could use them, so they shouldn't be deleted immediately. 10:51, 22 January 2019 (EST)
@1337star: Jetpac at least appears in what's more than basically a minigame compilation. Flagman, another Game & Watch game, also appears in Wario Land II and as a microgame in WarioWare: Touched!, and was exempt from this proposal for similar reasons. Personally, I don't think the Game & Watch games should be considered crossovers at all. What makes them more important than Nintendo Land, for example? -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 14:41, 25 January 2019 (EST)
Update the Manual of Style to strongly discourage abbreviations of game titles on mainspace articlesdo nothing 2-5-8 EDIT: Per several user's suggestions, I also included a Allow abbreviations if they are necessary for space or infoboxes or are more convenient and are not confusing such as Deluxe option as for example Donkey Konga 3: Tabehōdai! Haru Mogitate 50 Kyoku could be shorted to Donkey Konga 3 due to that abbreviation not being confusing, while for example New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe still will not be shorted to Deluxe due too potential confusion, and in this option some abbreviations would be allowed if necessary for space or infoboxes. Proposer: Doomhiker (talk) Fully restrict the use of abbreviations
Allow abbreviations if they are necessary for space or infoboxes or are more convenient and are not confusing while discouraging the use of confusing abbreviations such as Deluxe
Oppose
CommentsPlease note that the Game Boy Advance versions of the Donkey Kong Country games do not have subtitles. Therefore, when referring to them, they should just be Donkey Kong Country 2 and Donkey Kong Country 3. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:27, 16 January 2019 (EST) While I'm not opposed to using the full titles, I don't think using abbreviations should be fully restricted, as there are often cases where titles have to be shortened, like a column for a table, or using the full title would be too lengthy, like in an infobox. Basically, how I've seen it is, "Don't shorten the title if you don't need to." Mario JC 21:00, 16 January 2019 (EST) Does this proposal also account for shortening the game names? It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 00:34, 17 January 2019 (EST)
@FanOfYoshi this proposal is about strongly discouraging the use of abbreviations in the main content of mainspace pages, so if this proposal passes the use of abbreviations will decrease in mainspace articles, however abbreviations will still be allowed in discussions, in redirects, etc. Doomhiker (talk) 6:44 17 January 2019 Sorry, I just wanted to clarify before I vote for this, does this proposal only cover confusing or misleading abbreviations, such as New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe being shortened to Deluxe (Which I definitely support), or all titles in general? Because, as others have mentioned, sometimes it can be beneficial to shorten the title, and I think it would be alright to do so if it wouldn't be confusing or misleading, so shortening Donkey Konga 3: Tabehōdai! Haru Mogitate 50 Kyoku to Donkey Konga 3 if required to do so for space, as there is no other game it could easily be confused with. In limited-space situations, it'd likely be beneficial to drop the lengthy subtitle, as long as it isn't confusing or misleading. BBQ Turtle (talk) 12:09, 17 January 2019 (EST)
Delete Do the Donkey KongMerge the article 4-0 Proposer: Platform (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsThis should be a TPP, not a mainspace proposal, as it affects only one article. Ray Trace(T|C) 16:15, 26 January 2019 (EST)
Decide how to handle Donkey Kong Country 2 and Land 2 boss stagesSplit the boss stages, excluding Stronghold Showdown 3-11-0 However, there is one I'm not sure about: Stronghold Showdown. Unlike everything else, this really is the same thing in both games - a small castle room with a short cutscene where DK is seen tied up before being taken to the Flying Krock. While splitting it would be consistent with all of the other DKC2/DKL2 splits, it would also create two articles that are basically the same thing. The only game where Stronghold Showdown is actually different is the GBA version of DKC2, where Kerozene is added as a boss. Plus, we've already voted not to split the returning Super Mario 3D World levels in the Wii U version of Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker for a similar reason. Proposer: 7feetunder (talk) Split the boss stages, including Stronghold Showdown
Split the boss stages, excluding Stronghold Showdown
Don't split the boss stagesCommentsSorry, my first vote was a mistake. I wanted to vote "including" as, if everything is going to be split, this might need a split as well. Should i restart a proposal if the "excluding" option passes? -- FanOfYoshi 04:32, 4 February 2019 (EST)
Standardize species as the main article for subjects sharing an identical "character" and "species" nameno change 6-3-9 I guess I must be the one to say it - I sincerely think it is unwise to allow this setup to permeate much longer as it will most certainly not be sustainable forever. The mission of this proposal is simply to set a wiki-wide organizational standard for all current and future articles that fit this criteria (a few obvious examples would be Toad and Yoshi, but this would also extend to others as well). All this will do is move the current main articles to a character identifier, and move those with a species identifier to the new main article. This proposal will not affect the content of these articles themselves, since I believe any attempt to do so (should it eventually happen) would best be done on a case-by-case basis; it will only affect the titles and links of these subjects. This will take a considerable chunk of time to comb over since this is something that should have been done from the start, but hindsight is 20/20. An exception will be made for any articles where the species distinction falls under other media. The only current example I'm aware of is Fryguy. Readers will generally be more familiar with the Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic or Super Mario Bros. 2 boss and The Super Mario Bros. Super Show! role over the Nintendo Comics System depiction, which are treated as a transformation of Toads in precisely one story with a quick explanation that was never fully elaborated upon. Fryguy himself is not even considered a proper member of the Fryguy species, as he has a different origin in the game. As such, the proposal will not apply to Fryguy or potentially similar cases. Update: As an alternative, I've included the option to have articles with character and species identifiers, and instead have the main article be a disambiguation page. This is the current situation with Luma. This is not as extensive as the proposal's main objective, but it allows both articles to exist on equal standing. Note that the above exception still applies. Under this scenario, an additional exception will be made for standard enemies such as Goomba and Amp, who already currently default to their species article and will most likely be searched as an enemy due to their common role. Proposer: LinkTheLefty (talk) Make species the main articles
Use disambiguation pages instead
Keep the current setup
Comments@Doc - A playable appearance doesn't automatically grant characterhood. Mario Kart Wii is your example - where, then, is the Dry Bones character article (ditto for virtually every other playable standard enemy in spinoffs)? If they are not notable enough, does that mean that Toad and Yoshi as characters mainly retain notability because of DiC? The characters are certainly not entirely apparent in the modern platformers, because the recent New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe shows that just about any Toad can play the generic role of "Toad" and the Super Mario 3D World Toad might actually be a relabeled Blue Toad. In terms of the more dialog/lore-heavy games like the RPGs, such characters barely exist - Square's Super Mario RPG might have a definitive Toad character, but everything since Paper Mario has greatly diminished him to the point where he barely exists and it's genuinely difficult to tell if the rare instances of singular "Toad" refer to the character or a generic. Even several games later in Paper Mario: Color Splash, where at last a single Toad accompanies Peach, I think the singular "Toad" is thrown around more often to generically refer to other NPCs who are obviously not the same Toad, not to mention there's the infamous "Toad #35". The primary issue is the general writing style of Nintendo translations (and it's not unique to the Mario franchise) and how they often blend singular word use to refer to species, character, or generic (partially due to inconsistent localization and partially due to the Mario world not being as defined early on). This has been going on for quite a while, too - Kamek will refer to any given Yoshi color as generic/singular "Yoshi" in the Yoshi games, Nintendo Power and Prima Games would regularly flip between character and species usage on the writer's whim (sometimes on the same page), etc. "When in doubt, it's the species" would be the safer approach not just because species have become more prevalent but also because it's something that is constant (meaning it may not always be "the" character, but it's always "the" species). Besides, the current setup doesn't even make a whole lot of internal sense - searching priority for "Toad" should tell the reader what exactly a "Toad" is, not what "Toad, the Toad" is. That might look perfectively presentable to some of us, but it's confusing to uninformed newcomers. And honestly, I think a "shift" (whether it's a major overhaul or something as minor as simply changing around a few article titles) is an inevitability sooner or later, so the question is whether to begin taking care of this now or keep putting it off until it becomes unmanageable. LinkTheLefty (talk) 21:21, 28 January 2019 (EST)
@LinkTheLefty, can we delete the Green Yoshi article? I hate that one! It annoys me to see that thing exist. I'm out of words... the content in the Green Yoshi article should be merged with the Yoshi species article. MarioManiac1981 (talk) 22:51, 28 January 2019 (EST)
@Toadette - That's not the issue here; as stated, this proposal will absolutely not affect the content of the articles themselves and will thus preserve the history/legacy of these characters (hence the "character" identifier). The issue is that singular use in either species or generic contexts have become increasingly more common to the point where the original character is no longer certifiable and, for all intents and purposes, effectively phased out (Toad's "possible appearances" section could very easily be much larger if we were even mildly stricter about it). Over time, character has become secondary to species, plain and simple. We also continue to make certain assumptions based on both playability and the general mindset of "there's a generic member of the species standing there by itself minding its own business, so let's add it the main/character page" (one example would be Yoshi in Paper Mario: Color Splash, but there's many more). Overall, I think having the character pages as the wiki default contributes a lot to this unnecessary bloat, gives a false impression that a single recurring character is officially still in direct use today, and is a roadblock for discussion. I don't see any benefit to leaving it as-is when the signs are blatant. LinkTheLefty (talk) 10:45, 29 January 2019 (EST)
@BBQ Turtle - Claiming that his jacket's unique is probably the joke. LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:30, 29 January 2019 (EST)
Well, the Toad quote is:
He says that if you're looking for him you have to look for the blue jacket. Making the playable one with that color so you could recognize him among the many makes sense, but you need to remember that this is the standard appearance of Toads since the very beginning , before the concept of a Toad character was even a thing. And as LinktheLefty noticed, this remained the standard appearance of Toads. Even Super Mario Odyssey confirms this is still true . Of course playable characters need to stand out, but that doesn't mean that the appearance isn't the standard one, just that in those game they need to use the other color variants not to create confusion among the players.--Mister Wu (talk) 20:15, 29 January 2019 (EST)
Bring Back Fake Reminders and Warningsdon't bring back 1-17 Proposer: Mari0fan100 (talk) Support
Oppose
Comments(you forgot oppose and comments) -- FanOfYoshi 14:34, 2 March 2019 (EST) @Baby Luigi, you might want to look at this. That warning sounds funny to me, and it was used for a fun purpose. Under no circumstances do I call that inappropriate. Mari0fan100 (talk) 21:57, 2 March 2019 (EST)
Ban certain cases of future tense from the wikiban 20-1 When this wiki deals with a subject from an upcoming game or update, it's very common to see phrases such as "set to appear" or "will appear in said game or update". This kind of wording easily becomes obsolete once the game/update goes live. While some cases are promptly corrected, others remain unchanged for a long time. This instance, for example, had been forgotten for months since before the release of Mario Tennis Aces simply because it was too obscure. I propose the Manual of Style to be updated to forbid explicit statements that a subject will appear in a future media, on grounds that simply stating the same thing in present tense ("[subject] appears in [upcoming game]") is fine enough to use and doesn't risk becoming out of date (except in extremely rare cases, where the subject it removed from the game or the game gets cancelled). It's actually more correct to state it this way, since any trailer or gameplay of an unreleased game presents elements that have already been incorporated into it and are thus presently in the game. We may then avoid situations like this one where the subject is literally hours from going live at the time of this proposal. However, not all future wording would be affected by this proposal. Lead paragraphs that refer to a game as "upcoming" are free to stay, as this is the most simple way to state that the game is not released yet, on top of being likely more visible and easy to update than an obscure sentence on a particular page. So, cases like "Super Mario Maker 2 is an upcoming 2D platforming and level-editing game" will stay this way until release, even if the proposal passes. Proposer: Bye Guy (talk) Support
Oppose
CommentsWhy are we banning it? I would prefer we discourage rather than banning. Should i make a counterproposal four weeks after the proposal's deadline? -- FanOfYoshi 03:26, 1 March 2019 (EST)
Thing is, that's what the {{upcoming}} and {{new subject}} templates are for. They highlight upcoming or recently released games/subjects, which get categorized to look through. It's a simple category to look through and update, and if we have to edit the page to remove the template when it's time to do so, might as well change the tenses, and the MarioWiki:Upcoming_content#Revision already encourages things to be written in a present tense in this way. 15:36, 2 March 2019 (EST) Merge Assist Trophies that have made minor appearances in the Mario franchisemerge 11-0 After the merge for almost all of the categories listed in the linked proposal, there were a handful of pages that were left over, a number of them being Assist Trophies. The reason for this seems to be that they've made some sort of appearance in the Mario games, be it appearances as Mystery Mushroom costumes in Super Mario Maker and cameos in WarioWare microgames. However, when you think about the fact that Mystery Mushroom costumes like Babymetal and microgame characters (both non-playable and playable, e.g. the Empress Bulbax or the Urban Champion fighter) don't have their own articles - which was part of the reason Arcade Bunny was deleted - their still being separate doesn't quite make sense. We've already decided to merge the Assist Trophies, and minor appearances like these in any kind of Mario-related media alone don't warrant separate articles. There have been a few that have already been picked off individually (adding to the inconsistency), including Midna's page; using that as a precedent, it's time we finish this in one fell swoop. For the sake of going with the original plan of enacting the changes to our Smash coverage one step at a time, I'm only focusing on the Assist Trophy characters in this proposal instead of every non-Mario subject that may have articles out there, with one exception I found was similar enough to include (see below). Affected pages:
Proposer: Mario jc (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsI originally wanted to include Balloon Fighter as another exception; however, seeing as he's playable in a number of microgames in addition to a full-length minigame, this could be open to even greater debate that I think would be best handled separately. If anyone finds any more pages that can be added to the list, please let me know. Mario JC 00:26, March 15, 2019 (EDT) @Doomhiker: As mentioned in the proposal, Blinky already has his own page. -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 17:25, March 15, 2019 (EDT)
Remove information about Captain N: The Game Master + Captain Rainbow from non-Mario subjectskeep all information 1-1-3-0-0-5 This feels strange and outside the scope of our wiki, and doesn't make sense when Captain N's only relevance to the Mario franchise is that Donkey Kong and a few Donkey Kong Jr. enemies appear in a few episodes, along with the usage of Warp Zones. It's also inconsistent with how we cover other guest appearances; Densetsu no Starfy 3 is considered a guest appearance, but we no longer have an article on Starfy following our shift in Smash coverage. Nintendo Land and Nintendo Badge Arcade don't mention appearances of characters from other franchises on their articles. I did find two other exceptions; Little Mac and Takamaru's articles both mention their appearance in Captain Rainbow. Little Mac's article also mentions his playable appearance in Punch-Out!!, but that's kind of iffy in my opinion and should be saved for another time. Therefore, I propose that coverage of Captain N: The Game Master and Captain Rainbow for subjects not originating in the Mario franchise be removed. This would potentially affect the following pages:
My apologies if this is confusing, I've accidentally made a sort of tangled mess here. Leave any questions in the comments and I'll be glad to sort them out. Proposer: Waluigi Time (talk) Option 1: Remove all Captain N and Captain Rainbow information
Option 2: Remove Captain N information for characters that do not interact with Mario elements and Captain Rainbow information
Option 3: Just remove Captain N information for characters that do not interact with Mario elements
Option 4: Just remove all Captain N informationOption 5: Just remove Captain Rainbow informationOption 6: Do nothing
Commentsfyi, even if this pass, I would strongy recommend against removing the Captain N info from the pages about the show's core cast (which is to say, Simon Pit and Mega Man) and Dr. Wily since they all interract with Donkey Kong at some point. Infact, one of the show's episode is about Simon Belmont getting knocked on the head, wake up thinking he's Donkey Kong Jr. and going out to find his "father". So yeah, bad idea. --Glowsquid (talk) 13:49, March 16, 2019 (EDT) Per requests, I have changed the proposal to add an option to keep information about the characters who interact with Mario-related elements in the show. -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 15:15, March 16, 2019 (EDT)
Super Mario Galaxy / Super Mario Galaxy 2 fiery counterpartsdo nothing 6-2-9
Proposer: Toadette the Achiever (talk) Option A
Option B
Option C
CommentsWhile I'm not sure how to vote on this proposal quite yet, I'd like to point out that the mission name for the second King Kaliente battle is King Kaliente's Spicy Return. This seems to imply that King Kaliente is indeed the same character in both galaxies. -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 19:05, March 17, 2019 (EDT)
Does the scorched Kaliente have its own JP name in any official source? The English mission name indicate's it's the same entity, while it is unlikely at best that Fiery Dino Piranha is the same entity as its counterpart. The JP mission title doesn't seem to indicate either way, does Jr.'s JP dialog or anything from a JP official guide specify? Additionally, the only behavioral difference seems to be he gets more aggressive faster (ie a typical recurring boss thing), with every other difference being from the environment (meteors, sinking platforms, etc). I'd support merging the Hisstocrats and leaving the SMG bosses as-is due to this, as it seems far more in-line with that than with Gobblegut. An incendiary exponent is much different from "goes raagh faster in a different place." Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 17:16, March 19, 2019 (EDT)
@Mister Wu Does the little blurb paint them as separate entities? How about the JP version of the game itself? Anyways, that's a color identifier, which the guide also uses (inconsistently) with color-varying enemies (which also tend to get their own artwork). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 11:03, March 21, 2019 (EDT)
I know that Prima Guides aren't the go-to for naming, but if it helps in any sense, the Prima Guide for Super Mario Galaxy 2 simply refers to the fiery Gobblegut as "a fired-up version of Gobblegut". The wording would suggest that this is the same Gobblegut, but again, it's a Prima guide. Not sure how far we should run with that. Tails777 Talk to me!
Change the source priority exception to a more case-by-case basiscanceled by proposer Proposer: FanOfYoshi (talk) Make a more case-by-case basis (Determine each case individually)Stop having internal filenames as a priority over guide namesKeep the current setup (Errr, current setup is perfectly fine)CommentsThis isn't an April Fools joke, right? (T|C) 03:42, April 1, 2019 (EDT)
I'm not sure why more case-by-case basis (something I agree with, since the text of the original proposal is generic and thus can't be used right away without a discussion first, in my opinion) is used in the context of what seems more a stop making exception for internal filenames, the scope of which (all or certain?) isn't even clear.--Mister Wu (talk) 09:56, April 1, 2019 (EDT)
Either restrict usage of or don't use NTSC or PAL on articlesUse NTSC or PAL only for articles that relate to the older home consoles, while using the British or American English terminology for handheld consoles, the Wii U and the Nintendo Switch 7-9-1 First of all, NTSC and PAL would really only apply for the older (analog) TV sets back in the day. Newer HDTVs don't really use the analog NTSC or PAL video standards anymore, instead going for digital standards like ATSC, ISDB or DTMB, for example. Second of all, NTSC and PAL are mainly used to denote which video standard is used for TVs, not so much for video games (except for rare cases in which the content is exactly the same as the American version, where the only difference is game speed thanks to the PAL format in question). Not only that, but several people are still insisting on using NTSC and PAL for certain cases when it really wouldn't make sense (for example, this revision of the Shifty Shrine article). This needs to change. I'm proposing to replace either any or most instances of "NTSC" or "PAL" for video game regional differences with "American English" or "British English" whenever mentioned in articles. My reasons as for why are as follows:
I foresee so many ways this proposal could go in these two weeks so I'm adding multiple options. These options could be the one with the most votes at the end instead of just one, so they are there just in case. If you guys have any suggestions for other options before the end of the first week, then that would be great. The currently available options at the moment are the following:
Proposer: Owencrazyboy9 (talk) Option 1: Use the American English and British English terminology wherever possible
Option 2: Use NTSC or PAL only for articles that relate to the older home consoles (NES, SNES, N64, GCN and Wii) / Use the British or American English terminology for handheld consoles, the Wii U and the Switch
Option 3: Do absolutely nothing
CommentsFrom what I've seen, people don't say that they're "NTSC" or "PAL," but say "NTSC region" or "PAL region," which works as a shorthand way of denoting the regional split where differences tend to crop up. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:43, March 14, 2019 (EDT)
I don't really see a need for this proposal, personally. If there's inaccurate terminology being used on the wiki, it should be fixed on a case-by-case basis. I'm sure there's cases where NTSC/PAL is accurate, cases where American/British English is accurate, and cases where neither phrasing would be accurate and something else would need to be used. -- 1337star (Mailbox SP) 13:21, March 21, 2019 (EDT)
@FanofYoshi: No, it's not perfectly fine. NTSC and PAL themselves are basically no longer accurate to today's current advancements of technology. The Wii U and Switch use an HDMI connection, which uses digital connections, not analog. Portable systems, like the Game Boy and 3DS, don't really use NTSC or PAL connections, because they are...well portable. Older home consoles do use NTSC or PAL analog connections, though. – Owencrazyboy9 (talk) 13:45, March 26, 2019 (EDT)
Recreate the numbered Mario Kart redirectsrestore redirects 13-0 All the reasons given on the support side of that linked proposal are flawed. To quote my vote in that proposal: "According to MarioWiki:Redirects, "If there's even a small chance that a redirect will help someone, it's not useless." And while there may only be one person in the world who calls them that, that's more then zero; hence, they're not useless." That point still stands up today, and in fact, our current redirect policy, in bold text even, says, "There is no need to delete alternate name, conjectural, or spelling-mistake redirects unless they are specifically too silly or too general." It really couldn't be more clear than that. I don't know how that proposal passed by such a wide margin, or why no one's attempted to overturn it since, but it's time to right this wrong that's haunted me for eighteen months. Proposer: YoshiFlutterJump (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsThere has to be some sort of notability line we draw when it comes to making redirects. Otherwise you can use that "redirects are never useless" argument to justify all sorts of names like Mayro Kratt and Luggy. Who actually calls Mario Kart Double Dash by its numerical order on the franchise? Common sense is applied here, and I don't see the rationale for making numerical redirects convincing and they do not establish what sort of line we draw on redirects. Rather, it just seems this proposal is just "create redirects because we can". It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 18:51, May 9, 2019 (EDT)
I guess that is a counterproposal? -- FanOfYoshi 11:39, May 10, 2019 (EDT)
Wouldn't these numbered redirects fall under being too general though? SmokedChili (talk) 04:16, May 11, 2019 (EDT)
"this travesty"
Just to clarify, what is the list of redirects you'd like to make and what would be the source for that list? Even though I have an idea for both the answers, I think having them explicitly given is very important for this proposal.--Mister Wu (talk) 22:20, May 11, 2019 (EDT)
Decide on a phrase to describe crossover appearances with the Mario franchise"Mario-related media" 0-0-1-1-12-1
And, the guest star of the show:
Feel free to add any other options that you can think of below. A rather minor proposal, I know, but it's small changes like these that make a difference! Or not. Maybe I'm just an organizational maniac. Proposer: Bye Guy (talk) Crossover installmentsMario crossoversMario franchise crossovers
Crossovers with the Mario franchise
Do nothing
CommentsWould "Mario-related media" work as an option?
keep 1-10 Proposer: TheDarkStar (talk) Support
Oppose
CommentsInteresting scenario. I'm not too sure how to proceed either. -- FanOfYoshi 12:42, June 7, 2019 (EDT) Exactly what templates do you think should be effected by this? 13:08, June 7, 2019 (EDT) Additional note: The "category in template form" thing was made because a loooooooong time ago, there were nav templates on here for things like fire creatures and birds. I remember those days. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 21:40, June 7, 2019 (EDT) @TDA I am pretty sure that Template:Octoombas was split into "characters" and "species" navigation, due to the Octoomba bosses. Doomhiker (talk) 08:23, June 9, 2019 (EDT) Create articles on Play Nintendo gamescreate 12-0 Proposer: Obsessive Mario Fan (talk) Support
OpposeCommentsThis edit is what made me wonder if the articles are really necessary. --DeepFriedCabbage 22:14, June 16, 2019 (EDT) Looks like lots of users agree. I already started working on these articles, anyway. --DeepFriedCabbage 17:04, June 22, 2019 (EDT) Merge at least some of Bowser's formsmerge everything except Meowser 0-18-0
Proposer: Toadette the Achiever (talk) Merge everythingMerge everything except Meowser
Do nothingComments@FanOfYoshi: I don't see your point about consistency. Fire Gobblegut and Pink Hisstocrat are different entities from their standard counterparts. Meowser and Fire King Kaliente (afaik) are not. The reason that Meowser should stay is because he has an entirely different attack pattern from both standard Bowser and Cat Mario, and he is also more significant than the other forms of Bowser. -YFJ (talk · edits) 12:30, June 30, 2019 (EDT) Aside from these, I'd also like to point out Metal Bowser also has his own page which seems unnecessary. -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 15:14, June 30, 2019 (EDT) Strategiescanceled by proposer Proposer:Mario Sakuraba (talk) Support
Oppose
CommentsMerge all doctor versions of characters into their respective article (excluding Dr. Mario)merge 31-0 Of course, Dr. Mario himself is an exception to this rule, solely because he has appeared as a separate character from Mario in the Super Smash Bros. series (and a weird obscure Kondansha's Mario manga) and considering his veteran status of appearing in multiple games of a series even named after himself, I think it's better off his page remains the way it is. Articles affected:
Proposer: Baby Luigi (talk) Support
OpposeComments@HEROMARIO: No, they're not different characters - the opening scene after Stage 10 literally has Peach and Bowser throw on doctor clothing to help Mario stop the virus outbreak in the Mushroom Kingdom. Secondly, their stats are different? Every single Mario spin-off game has each character go through slightly different statistics each game, so that argument is also not valid at all. – Owencrazyboy9 (talk) 16:26, July 10, 2019 (EDT)
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