MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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==Writing guidelines==
==Writing guidelines==
===Repeal the "derived names" having priority over official names in other languages===
''None at the moment.''
Recently, a (completely undiscussed) amendment was made to the [[Mariowiki:Naming#derived names|naming]] system making it so quote-unquote "derived names" - as in, standard conjectural names made by cut-n-pasting descriptors from similar entities - have priority over official names from other languages (particularly the games' language of origin, which for this franchise is usually Japanese). While allowing said "derived names" as conjecture makes sense, it comes with several pitfalls, and my main concern is it is turning into a slippery slope. Much of it is discussed on the talk page for the so-called "[[Talk:Hefty Goombrat|Hefty Goombrat]]," which is a sterling example of why this was not a good idea. I have also been recently seeing cases of people moving to subjects based on objects sharing some adjective with a random obscure object in the same game, as demonstrated [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Linking_Bull%27s-Eye_Bill&curid=429765&diff=4195153&oldid=4111331 here]. To be blunt, this was a short-sighted idea (and more than likely, simply a failed experiment) and needs cut back to a reasonable level before it gets out of hand. For the record, I am favor of letting it stay when the only indications in other languages or file names or what-have-you are generic terms rather than clear "names," for instance when the only confirmed name for [[Shoot]] was just "jugador de futbol," as well as rewording clunky generic descriptors like "[[surfboard vehicle|vehicle with surfboard]]."


'''Proposer''': {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}}<br>
==New features==
'''Deadline''': May 13, 2024, 23:59 GMT
===Add parameters for listing related groups to character and species infoboxes===
====Support====
Alright, I know the "Affiliation(s)" parameter for these was deprecated many years ago for being [https://www.mariowiki.com/images/2/26/Mario1c.jpg dumb], but hear me out.
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Per.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per proposal, these names are conjectural and shouldn't be unduly given more weight than their fellow conjectural names.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Might just be me but I'd rather not have a policy that specifically states "if you don't like this official name, just completely ignore it and make up something wacky instead" because that's ''not what this site is even remotely about''
#{{User|Axis}} Per all.
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per proposal. While some of these derived names are fine and it's sensible to have this as an option, it shouldn't take priority over an official name when one exists.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} ...Okay, yeah, KCC makes a good point we didn't think of, so, surprise! We're changing our vote! Conjectural names have their place, but we really shouldn't prioritize them over ''actual names'' if they exist.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} I'm pretty sure this all started [[Talk:Mame-san#Name source|here]], and...yeah, in practice, conjectural exceptions bloat the elegant naming policy. Plus, this is practically begging to have more "Fire Nipper Plant"-esque situations.
#{{User|Blinker}} Per all.
#{{User|Somethingone}} Per the arguments raised above.


====Oppose====
A few years after [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/31#Remove the "Affiliation" parameter from infoboxes|this proposal]] passed, this wiki added a [[Template:Group infobox|group infobox]] for linking to and listing members, member species, and leaders of a group, similar to how the species infobox lists variants, notable members, etc of the species. Thing is, unlike the character and species infoboxes that are designed to link to each other (character's species/species' notable members, species variants/species variants of, and so on), group infoboxes are a one-way street as it currently stands. So, I propose that parameters be added to these infoboxes so they can list the groups they belong to. And to be clear, this parameter would '''only''' be used for groups, so we get none of that "Mario is 'affiliated' with his brother and sometimes Bowser" nonsense. This has a much more specific purpose. Right now this wiki doesn't really have lists of groups that characters and species belong to, you have to look through all the articles for groups to find that out, so I think these lists would be worth having.
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} While I agree that some discussions may need to be made on what counts as derived conjecture and what doesn't, a flat-out repeal is '''not''' the way to go about this. Plus, some of these derived conjecture names are completely straightforward (such as "[[Fire Spike]]" or "[[Wonder Hoppycat]]"), as in we can reasonably assume that Nintendo of America or Nintendo of Europe would pick these names for the respective subject.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} The only problem with this policy is that it's being applied in cases and/or ways that it shouldn't be (I personally think Hefty Goombrat was a step too far). If it's kept to reasonable use like the examples Archivist Toadette gave, it's fine. No need to repeal the entire thing.
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per opposition.
#{{User|Hooded Pitohui}} Per Archivist Toadette, really. To me, it does seem greater caution and discussion on these derived names is warranted, but a case-by-case approach seems more useful here than a flat-out repeal. I'd be worried about throwing the baby out with the bathwater, here, tossing away something that's generally beneficial to readers in the process of correcting a few cases where this has been misapplied.
#{{User|Tails777}} Per all.
#{{User|Shoey}} Per all.
#{{User|DrippingYellow}} I seriously fail to see how this is a problem. If you have a Japanese noun that has had a direct, consistent translation across ''multiple'' pieces of English ''Mario'' media (i.e. ''gabon'' to Spike, ''kakibo'' to Goombrat, ''deka'' to "Big" enemies, admittedly ''kodeka'' for "Hefty" enemies is pushing it since we really only have [[Hefty Goomba]]s as an official translation), then the way I see it this replacement of terms is no different than how we've been treating internal names. We already have a rule on not "partially translating" names, so I'd maybe expand on that to prohibit creating translations for words that don't have a consistent translation across games, but I wouldn't get rid of the derived name rule altogether. (i.e. [[Sensuikan Heihō]] does not become "Submarine Shy Guy" or even "Sensuikan Shy Guy")
<s>#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per all, especially Waluigi Time. We really ought to be handling poor names born from this policy on a case-by-case basis, rather than nixing the policy altogether and potentially causing more harm than good.</s>


====Comments====
I've come up with two options:
@Opposition I did say in the last sentence that this isn't removing it completely, just changing its position in the "acceptable naming" hierarchy. The reason I said "repeal" is an incarnation of it existed before for generic-borne titles and I am trying to go back to that as - unlike the current iteration - it isn't just ''begging'' to be misused.  [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 02:08, April 29, 2024 (EDT)
*Option 1: [[Template:Character infobox]] and [[Template:Species infobox]] get a "member of" parameter, which would be used to link to groups they are, well, a member of. [[Goomba]] and the like would link to [[Bowser's Minions]], [[Vivian]] would link to [[Three Shadows]], etc. This parameter would be used to list both memberships and leadership roles (the latter could maybe be distinguished by adding "(leader)" next to the link).
*Option 2: these infoboxes would also get a separate "Leader of" parameter. [[Bowser]] would use this to link to [[Bowser's Minions]], [[King K. Rool]] would use this to link to [[Kremling Krew]], [[Captain Syrup]] would use this to link to [[Black Sugar Gang]], characters and species-characters would link to the [[:Category:baseball teams|baseball teams]] they lead, etc.


I guess the best way to put it is this: if an official name ''that is a name'' exists, period, there is no excuse whatsoever for there to be a "conjecture" template of any sort. That's not hypothesizing, that's ignoring, and to be frank is a grotesque perversion of the policies this site has had for decades that have not caused any harm whatsoever - meanwhile, ''these'' have plenty of potential for misleading people. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 02:08, April 29, 2024 (EDT)
EDIT: In case it wasn't clear, the parameters would be displayed in a two-column list similar to the species infobox parameters, and would only be used for links (e.g. groups that actually have articles, and not just any arbitrary category people come up with).
:Then what about the examples I brought up? {{User:Archivist Toadette/sig}} 07:30, April 29, 2024 (EDT)
::What about them? They have official names, but the wiki opts to give them ''explicitly'' conjectural ones because apparently a couple of sysops thought so. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 07:33, April 29, 2024 (EDT)


I still find the idea that these names are "conjectural" to be kind of weird, if that's the big hang-up here. If we can [[MarioWiki:Naming#Japanese|already take some liberties with Japanese titles]] I don't see why we can't just look at something and say "oh, this is literally Goomba's Japanese name, let's just call it Goomba", especially when the name is partially English already. That's just doing some simple translation, not really making conjectural names? I'm speaking as someone with no background in translation, mind you, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:19, April 29, 2024 (EDT)
'''Proposer''': {{User|Dive Rocket Launcher}}<br>
:Conjecture occurs when you're presuming something to be the case in the absence of hard facts. Archive Toadette states in his vote that "we can reasonably assume that Nintendo of America or Nintendo of Europe would pick these names for the respective subject". "'''Assume'''". That's the thrust of this policy: assumption. Which is pretty much synonymous with conjecture, and some editors are taking issue with prioritizing that over official names. Regarding the liberties on Japanese names, there's nothing conjectural about adapting something like [[Sniper|Sunaipā]] to "Sniper", because it's literally the word's Japanese transliteration--the romanization reflects how the word sounds when converted to Japanese writing. Note how that policy states that instances of "Kuppa" should be adapted to "[[Koopa (species)|Koopa]]", and not "Bowser", even though that's his Japanese name. "Kuribo" wouldn't be adapted to "Goomba" in article titles because that's not a transliteration, that a compound of actual Japanese morphemes. The basis of the Japanese naming policy isn't the same as that of the conjectural naming policy. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 12:43, April 29, 2024 (EDT)
'''Deadline''': June 14, 2024, 23:59 GMT


@Hooded Pitohui: Could you be more specific on what is or isn't acceptable? Because I'm kind of struggling to picture any time these conjectural names should have priority over an actual official name, or what would make that case different to others (note that they'd still take priority over filenames per the proposal). {{User:Hewer/sig}} 13:01, April 29, 2024 (EDT)
====Option 1====
:I think it may be helpful to start with a disclaimer and an acknowledgement of where I'm coming from in casting a vote. I'm a very infrequent, casual editor on the wiki side of things, so when I do wade into these proposals on the intricacies of the wiki's policies on naming or classification or scope of coverage, I don't often have a large repository of examples to draw upon, and rarely am I able (or attempting to) make any kind of case or argument. Generally, I'm entering these discussions from the perspective of a reader/user of the wiki first, and casual contributor second, and generally my votes are going to be informed by that perspective, so I apologize if this seems a bit broad and dealing in hypotheticals. For me, I'd think anything that's a straight localization of a recurring, official enemy/item/what have you is acceptable, and more adjectival/descriptive parts of a name or a name of something that hasn't really had a localization established is not. To use the cited Hefty Goombrat example, "Hefty" probably shouldn't have been conjecturally localized, but a Goombrat is pretty clearly a Goombrat, so conjecturally localizing that part seems fine to me. If, I don't know, Nintendo introduces a Lakitu that throws fireballs down that become Firesnakes, and it's called "[something] Jugem" officially in Japanese material, again, I think we leave the descriptive part as-is because there's no clear precedent, but we know a "Jugem/Jugemu" is consistently localized as Lakitu, so we might as well localize that because an average reader will recognize "Lakitu" quickly. Meanwhile, if we just got, say, a generic cloud spitting fireballs with the same behavior, I'd say we'd be wise not to do a conjectural localization because there's not clear precedent for what that'd get localized as. Of course, even always following really clear, solid precedent, we might get it wrong occasionally, especially if Nintendo decides to rename a recurring enemy at some point, but it's a wiki, information is constantly getting updated, renamed, and reevaluated anyway. Hope that helps explain my reasoning a bit better! [[User:Hooded Pitohui|Hooded Pitohui]] ([[User talk:Hooded Pitohui|talk]]) 13:26, April 29, 2024 (EDT)
#{{User|Dive Rocket Launcher}} First choice per proposal.
::Slippiest of slippery slopes. Just use redirects if you expect casual readers to look up for a thing more intuitively than how it's been officially presented. There's no need to compromise encyclopedic integrity to cater to what readers expect to see. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 14:06, April 29, 2024 (EDT)


For the record, this isn't a talk page proposal, so I think the deadline for this proposal should be May 6. Unless there was a statement of "you can make the proposals two weeks long if you want" that I missed in the rules, which is entirely possible. [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 19:21, May 1, 2024 (EDT)
====Option 2====
:Writing Guideline proposals also last two weeks, like TPPs. {{User:Tails777/sig}}
#{{User|Dive Rocket Launcher}} Second choice per proposal.


==New features==
====Do nothing====
===Create The Cutting Room Floor link template===
#{{User|DrBaskerville}} Whereas a nice idea in theory, I fear we'll see a repeat of everything that led to the previous iteration of this parameter getting deleted in the first place.  Unless there will be heavy patrolling of this parameter, which seems unlike given how widespread the [[Template:Character infobox]] is, I don't trust leaving it to chance that it will be used responsibly and we won't end up with weird things like Mario being "member of" some ridiculous things like "Mario Bros.", or, just as worse, a long, long, exhaustive list of every organization Mario has ever participated in, e.g. [[Excess Express]] passengers, [[Mario Kart 8]] racers (etc., etc.), and so on. Mario is obviously a "worse case" example, but the principles apply to virtually any character who has multiple appearances.  In the [[Goomba]] example that you provided, for instance, not all Goombas are part of Bowser's Minions.  What about the Goombas in [[Goomba Village]] or [[Rogueport]] or any of the other various non-Bowser-aligned Goombas.  You'd just have to get really, really into the weeds to make specific rules for parameter usage, and it will be a pain to enforce them.
"Pre-release and unused content" articles already link to The Cutting Room Floor very often, and since they are established as the to-go wiki for that kind of information, I propose we formalize the linking with a template just like the [[Template:Wikipedia|Wikipedia template]].
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per DrBaskerville.


This is how it could look:
====Comments====


If in a "List of pre-release and unused content" article:
==Removals==
''None at the moment.''


{{br}}
==Changes==
{| class="nav-right noprint" style="width:262px;background:#efe;border:1px solid #ada;padding:2px"
===Merge the name of Mario family wiki===
| style="padding-right:10px" | [[File:Smiley.png|32px]]
Mariowiki contains content from ''Donkey Kong'' and ''Wario'' series despite Mario did not appears. [[Pauline]] is an intersection between ''Mario'' and ''Donkey Kong'' series, so she can be included in either. As independent games of the Mario family including ''Luigi'' and ''Princess Peach'' released, the name of ''Mariowiki'' will no longer be effective. luigiwiki.com and peachwiki.com also redirected to Mariowiki.
| Further reading on '''[[tcrf:Super Mario Bros.|The Cutting Room Floor]]'''.
|}
{{br}}


If in a main game article:
Since Mario is from the ''Mushroom Kingdom'', the important thing is that they are the ''Mario family'', so I'd suggest giving them a new name.


{{br}}
'''Proposer''': {{User|Windy}}<br>
{| class="nav-right noprint" style="width:262px;background:#efe;border:1px solid #ada;padding:2px"
'''Deadline''': June 8, 2024, 23:59 GMT
| style="padding-right:10px" | [[File:Smiley.png|32px]]
| [[tcrf:The Cutting Room Floor|The Cutting Room Floor]] has an article on '''''[[tcrf:Super Mario Bros.|Super Mario Bros.]]'''''.
|}
{{br}}


'''Proposer''': {{User|Bro Hammer}}<br>
====Option 1: Rename to Mushroomwiki====
'''Deadline''': May 7, 2024, 23:59 GMT
====Option 2: Rename to Kinopedia====
#{{User|Windy}} As proposer.
#{{User|Mario}} In fairness this is a kino proposal so this gets my vote.


====Support====
====Status quo====
#{{User|Bro Hammer}}: Per my proposal.
#{{User|Arend}} Current wiki name is fine. It's straight to the point: it's about the ''Super Mario'' franchise, and in marketing for this franchise, characters with their own series such as Wario, Yoshi and DK are often included anyway. Something like "Mushroom Wiki" is not clear at all, and are probably even ''less'' relevant to the Yoshi, DK or Wario series, since none of their series have anything to do with mushrooms. "Kino" is also German for "cinema", so "Kinopedia" works even ''less'' (unless you're trying to say it's a pun on [[Toad|Kinopio]] rather than [[Mushroom|Kinoko]], in which case that's still worse).
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}}: This is a good idea.
#{{User|Pseudo}} The current wiki name is simple, concise, and great for searchability. Changing it would completely torpedo that for very little gain. While separate, the Donkey Kong, Yoshi, and Wario games are closely related to the Mario franchise, and make sense to be covered on the Mario wiki.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Per proposal. This is a really high quality wiki.
#{{User|Hewer}} The name of the whole franchise is Super Mario, a game doesn't necessarily need to feature Mario to be in the franchise. I don't think anyone is confused to see New Super Luigi U on the Super Mario Wiki. Meanwhile, they most certainly would be confused as to what the hell Mushroom Wiki or Kinopedia is even about, those names are significantly more generic and less recognisable and would create immense amounts of confusion, not solve it. This is a disastrous "solution" to a non-existent issue. (also I'm not entirely sure what you meant when you said Pauline "can be included in either" but the idea that Pauline is the main crossover between the Mario and Donkey Kong franchise rather than their shared origins and DK's continued appearances in Mario games is laughable)
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} As someone with a account there, per all.
#{{User|Nightwicked Bowser}} Per all, this would be confusing as f**k.
#{{User|Scrooge200}} I don't edit there anymore, but it does help coverage.
#{{User|Zootalo}} Nah. Per all.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} We're surprised this hasn't been added sooner, all things considered. Per proposal.
#{{User|Sparks}} Per all.
#{{User|Arend}} Per all.
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - ...why would that be better? It just makes it harder to find. Obtuse names like "JiggyWikki" and "Triforce Wiki" were chosen just because the more obvious "Banjo Wiki" and "Zelda Wiki" were already taken.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per all. "Mushroomwiki" makes us think of a wiki for mushroom foragers, and no offense, but "Kinopedia" make us think of a knockoff of Urban Dictionary--all things considered, we lucked out ''hard'' by having the name "Super Mario Wiki" at "mariowiki.com" ripe for the picking; we really, really shouldn't just throw that all away for something obtuse. We are not Elon Musk.
#{{User|Sdman213}} No. Definitely per all.
#{{user|MegaBowser64}} What the actual hell. Do I even need to make an argument? per all
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} I ''dislike'' this idea! (Per all.)
#{{User|Axis}} Per all.
#{{User|Mario}} I think the wiki should continue using my name.
#{{User|Jazama}} Per all
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} These names, especially Kinopedia, are just as tied to specifically-Mario games, and make the wiki's subject much less obvious.
#{{User|SeanWheeler}} I never heard of Kino. And the Mushroom is the the Smash series symbol for Mario and not Donkey Kong (letters DK), Yoshi (egg) or Wario (letter W). The mushroom isn't that essential to DK, Yoshi or Wario, but Mario is a very important figure to the spinoffs. The first Donkey Kong game is the debut of Mario. The Yoshi series has Baby Mario. And Wario is pretty much Mario with the M turned upside-down and was supposed to be a rival to Mario.
#{{User|Tails777}} [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/April Fool's 2019|Pink Donkey Kong Jr. Wiki, then we'll talk]]. Otherwise, per all.
#{{User|Shadow2}} So your argument is "Mariowiki contains content from Donkey Kong and Wario series despite Mario [doesn't appear in those games]", so the solution is to name it after the Mushroom Kingdom...which ALSO doesn't appear in most Donkey Kong and Wario games? Opposing due to nonsensical.
#{{User|Dive Rocket Launcher}} Per all, this rebrand would be almost as bad as what happened to Twitter.
#{{User|BMfan08}} While everyone else here has already said what I think about this idea, I'd nevertheless like to offer my commentary. Going to the [[Mushroom Kingdom]] page, the only instances of Donkey Kong outside of race courses is mention of the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series (Need I say more?) and that Donkey Kong Island is a "surrounding area". Wario is not even mentioned at all outside of the race courses. And that's not even getting into the [[Mushroom]] article. While not every wiki is named like ours is, more often than not the title is based on the main subject, and that's why I believe that this wiki has been named the Super Mario Wiki for so long.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Per everyone!
#{{User|DrBaskerville}} Per Arend
#{{User|YoYo}} if only there was a series that we could use as an umbrella to group all these franchises together. per all.
<s>#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Absolutely not. Per all.</s>


====Oppose====
====Comments====
The point is the merging of Mario character names. The domain; Luigiwiki, Peachwiki, DKwiki (or donkeykongwiki.com), Wariowiki, Yoshiwiki and Bowserwiki have all been redirected to Mariowiki. [[User:Windy|Windy]] ([[User talk:Windy|talk]]) 10:26, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
:Why would that need done? Especially Peach, who has two major games plus an LCD thing under her... petticoat...? (she doesn't have a belt) And Bowser, who has zilch. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 10:38, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
::All those URLs already redirect to this site, which I think is what Windy's trying to get at for whatever reason. As for what relevance that's supposed to have to the idea of renaming the wiki, I haven't a clue. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 15:09, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
:::Windy already stated as such about the luigiwiki.com and peachwiki.com URLs in the proposal itself, directly after stating the MarioWiki name will no longer be effective (which uh, wouldn't be true given the name of the franchise; for some reason, Windy seems to think this wiki is named after the ''character'' instead of the ''franchise''). I... ''think'' they bring it up to say "oh, we can make mariowiki.com a redirect to the new URL, like the luigiwiki.com and peachwiki.com URLs" (I wouldn't have any idea what ''else'' it could've meant). {{User:Arend/sig}} 16:21, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
:So...where's the issue? What does this have to do with renaming the wiki? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 10:39, June 1, 2024 (EDT)


====Comments====
Let me ask you a question: what is the name of [[Super Mario (franchise)|the ''whole'' franchise this wiki is about, and covers franchises like Yoshi, Donkey Kong and Wario alike]]? It's not some weird merger of names, not something like "Mushroom" or "Kinoko" or even the "Mario family" (which admittedly is a better to name a wiki after than "Mushroom"/"Kinoko"). No, it's ''Super Mario''. "Super Mario Wiki" is still a perfectly fine name for the subjects this wiki is talking about. While this wiki does contain content from the ''Donkey Kong'' and ''Wario'' series despite Mario "did not appears", there's really no need to rename this wiki since Yoshi, DK and Wario are still characters in the franchise that Mario ''is the center of''. And so are Luigi, Peach and Toad: ''all six of these'' are always to be recognized as ''Super Mario'' characters, so even if Mario doesn't appear in some games that these others star in, the current name of our wiki is still effective and relevant. {{User:Arend/sig}} 10:47, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
Could you change the links on the template from external links to interwiki links, like [[tcrf:Super Mario Bros.|this one]]? The Cutting Room Floor ''is'' on our [[Special:Interwiki|interwiki list]], after all, and that would look much better on the template than the external link thing. {{User:Arend/sig}} 05:01, May 1, 2024 (EDT)
:For the record, [[Mario Family]] is also a bad name. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 15:09, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
:Done! {{User:Bro Hammer/sig}} 08:19, May 1, 2024 (EDT)


==Removals==
Dunno guys, I think Windy's got a point about the second option: Mario's pretty kino. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 15:28, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
===Remove profiles and certain other content related to the ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia'' from the wiki===
:But is he the epitome? If we wanna name the wiki after the most Mario adjective, [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/April Fool's 2021|we've got a better option]] - {{User:Hewer/sig}} 15:37, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
The wiki currently houses a sizeable number of transcriptions of information from the 2015 ''[[Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia]]'', mainly the Japanese edition, in the form of character and enemy profiles. I stated my concern [[Talk:Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia#Copyright infringement|here]] that this practice may infringe Dark Horse/Nintendo's copyright over the product, since, to my knowledge, the book's entire selling point is to inform you on the stuff you find in Mario games through bitesized blurbs. In incorporating these blurbs within its knowledge base, the Mario Wiki, a free resource, is not just impairing the very purpose of the book, but, given that it's still in print, may negatively impact its sales. In fact, that second point is the reason this proposal concerns this book only and not similar publications like ''[[Perfect Edition of the Great Mario Character Encyclopedia]]'', which has long been out of print and has been superseded by the SMB Encyclopedia, making it highly unlikely that some big wig will send Porple a DMCA strike over something like [[Fire (100m)#Perfect Ban Mario Character Daijiten|Fire (100m)'s profile]]. When it comes to the 2015 Encyclopedia, though, that has a reasonable likelihood of happening and it's best the wiki enforces good faith.
::If we're talking about the cream of the crop, Luigi's got two much better contenders. [[File:MP1WarioLuigiDK.gif|150px]] {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 15:55, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
:::[[File:MP3MarioRelaxing.gif]] NO ONE TOPS MARIO. {{User:Mario/sig}} 16:09, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
::::Guys, we're all overlooking the obvious candidate--[[Kinoppe|it's literally 4/7ths of her name]]. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 16:18, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
:::::DID MARIO STUTTER {{User:Mario/sig}} 16:25, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
::::::We could alternatively pick [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Proposals/April Fool's 2021#Who should take the red-capped plumber's position?|any of these names]]. How does [[inkipedia:Marie|Marie]]Wiki sound? {{User:Arend/sig}} 16:28, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
::::::Kinoppe's described as a follower of Dr. Mario's daughter<small> (that was the grammar on the original article we don't get it either)</small>! She was born because of Mario with a PhD! {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 16:32, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::Actually, she's stated to be a follower of Peach and Dr. Mario's daughter. I think that's to say she's Dr. Mario's daughter ''and'' a follower of Peach, instead of a follower of the daughter of Peach and Dr. Mario <small>(Yeah I completely agree that sentence was grammatically confusing)</small> {{User:Arend/sig}} 16:50, June 1, 2024 (EDT)


On a similar basis, one user who engaged with the topic in the above talk page has also questioned the wiki's need to feature scans of the book's mistakes in its very article. Given the small size of each blurb, the scans are essentially taking away substantial chunks of information in a way that cannot be conceived as demonstrative or transformative under US Fair Use law.
As an aside--so, um, ''do'' mushrooms all appear in the spinoff side-series??? We know there's mushrooms in the original Luigi's Mansion (namely the [[Poison Mushroom]]) and in the WarioWare series (they repeatedly appear in microgames), but like, are there any in the Wario Land games? Are there any in the Donkey Kong games? We aren't exactly familiar with Every Single Mario Video Game Ever Released, but like, it's not like Mario games are even defined by having ''a'' mushroom in them in the first place; ''[[Mario Bros. (game)|both Mario]] [[Mario Bros. (Game & Watch)|Bros. games]]'' lack them, and those are literally named based on the fact that Mario is in them. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 16:18, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
:I already stated in my oppose vote that mushrooms are barely relevant in any of the Yoshi, DK and Wario games. It's really only ''Mario''-specific. {{User:Arend/sig}} 16:28, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
::We knew they weren't relevant to them, that's definitely not in question for us. Our question is if Mushrooms made a meaningful appearance in any of them. ;P {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 16:32, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
::"It's really only Mario-specific" [[Shroom (enemy)|Nuh-uh]], I'll have you know this is a real mushroom inspired by the mushrooms that slide on the ground in mario games. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 17:02, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
:::Ah of course, excuse me for forgetting about the true emblems and stars of the DK franchise. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 18:36, June 1, 2024 (EDT)


What this proposal aims to do is the following:
===Discourage "([Title] for [system])" disambiguation format when "([Title])" alone is sufficient to identify the subject===
*remove encyclopedia bios listed on various articles, regardless of their source's language. [[Tryclyde#Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros. bio|Here's an example]]. [[List of Yoshi profiles and statistics#Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.|Here's another]].
These past months, there have been some remakes that share titles with the games they're remaking. This has led to a few new articles with titles ending with "([Title] for [system])", such as [[Scrapbook (Super Mario RPG for Nintendo Switch)|Scrapbook (''Super Mario RPG'' for Nintendo Switch)]] and [[Gold Medal (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door for Nintendo Switch)|Gold Medal (''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door'' for Nintendo Switch)]]. However, this long-winded double-disambiguation format is not always strictly necessary, and both of these example articles fall outside of the specific use case [[MarioWiki:NAME]] recommends using this format in. There isn't a Scrapbook in the original ''Super Mario RPG'', and there isn't a Gold Medal in the original ''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door''. These are not cases where "two different games share the same title but appear on different consoles and the identifier '''needs''' to distinguish between them" (emphasis added).
*delete the scans in the "List of English translation errors and typos not from the Super Mario Wiki" section of the encyclopedia's article, as well as any other scans of the book's contents, '''unless''' said content has been displayed by Nintendo or one of their official distributors for the purpose of promoting the book. To exemplify: [[:File:Encyclopedia Error 20.png|This]], [[:File:Encyclopedia Error 6.png|this]], and [[:File:ESMB page 27.png|this]] image should be deleted if the proposal passes. [[:File:EncyclopediaSMB - Characters pt1.jpg|This]] and [[:File:EncyclopediaSMB - Characters pt2.jpg|this]] one should also be deleted, since the content depicted in these images hasn't been used by Shogakukan, Amazon, or some other official distributor to portray the Japanese edition on their online storefronts. On the other hand, the artwork shown in the article's gallery, such as [[:File:Bowser Jr Coloring Book.png|this one]], '''shouldn't''' be removed unless they depict textual information that infringes copyright.


A few notes:
I propose a change to the naming policy to explicitly discourage using this disambiguation format in such cases. If the game title alone is enough to specify the subject, including the system in the article title is unnecessary and awkward. Those details belong in the article itself, not the title.
*Paraphrases of the encyclopedia's information will be allowed under the proposal, so the book's article may continue to describe its mistakes until further notice.
*Small quotes of the book will also be permitted (e.g.: "This text is translated from the Japanese instruction booklet.") if they do not violate this proposal's requirements, albeit it's entirely up to editors to decide how small a quote should be and whether it fits US Fair Use.
*Subject names unique to the encyclopedia are not concerned by this proposal.


'''Proposer''': {{User|Koopa con Carne}}<br>
'''Proposer''': {{User|JanMisali}}<br>
'''Deadline''': April 30, 2024, 23:59 GMT
'''Deadline''': June 9, 2024, 23:59 GMT


====Support====
====Support change====
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per proposal.
#{{User|JanMisali}} As proposer.
#[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) - Book's only 9 years old, this is worrisome.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Erring on this for the time being. We get the counter-arguments, but it's usually clear from the article's body itself that the content is exclusive to a given remake of a video game that happens to hold a similar name, and it's not like we even apply these nametags consistently anyways--if a thing has a more specific name that isn't already shared with something else, like [[Hottest Dog]] or [[Goomboss Battle]], we don't append these "<name> for <console>" tags. As it stands, if you ''need'' the title to clarify it's exclusive to a remake, then something's probably wrong in the article itself.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all. Having scans as "proof" of mistakes is especially odd, just use the book and page number as a source.
#{{User|Shadow2}} Trim! Trim the excess!
#{{user|MegaBowser64}} Well, we don't want to get sued for 34 thousand dollars in the Federal Court of Malaysia now, do we? And we probably don't want a DMCA from Dark Horse/Nintendo either. Per all of yall (collectively)
#{{user|MegaBowser64}} Per all. And uh, sorry for accidentally roasting this proposal with my comment lol.
#{{User|FanOfRosalina2007}} Per all. Good move, Koopa con Carne.
#{{user|Dive Rocket Launcher}} I find it strange that this additional disambiguation is used for version-exclusive content ''only'' if the article already needs a distinguisher. [[Nostalgic Tunes]]'s title doesn't have to clarify that it's exclusive to the TTYD remake specifically, so why does [[Gold Medal (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door for Nintendo Switch)|Gold Medal]] need to? <s>Or maybe we need to go the Nintendo route and call it "Gold Medal in the ''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door'' game for the Nintendo Switch family of systems"</s>
#{{User|Somethingone}} Per proposal (as someone who usually likes images like this), and I personally don't agree with the opposition. I saw plenty of DMCAs from scans like this before.
#{{User|Jdtendo}} Per all.
#{{User|Hooded Pitohui}} Per proposal and per Waluigi Time's reasoning.
#{{User|DrBaskerville}} Per Camwoodstock and Dive Rocket Launcher.
#{{User|Okapii}} Per all; nothing we'd be removing has enough value to risk any kind of legal action against the wiki; basically, better safe than sorry.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} per all for nintendo switch
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
#{{User|SeanWheeler}} Better to shorten the titles than to add unnessarily long parentheticals. No need to disambiguate when the subject only appears in one version. The "(<title> for <console>)" parenthetical should only be used for subjects with different pages for each version, like [[100m (Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games for Wii)]].
#{{user|PnnyCrygr}} yeah, this is all just chunks of copyrighted content; best to remove than to be dmcaed by darkhorse. per all
<s>#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per all</s>


====Oppose====
====Oppose change====
#{{User|Axis}} I genuinely don't see how use of limited material from the book on pages relevant to the subject in question is by any means problematic.
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - "There isn't a Scrapbook in the original Super Mario RPG, and there isn't a Gold Medal in the original Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door" ...that is precisely ''why'' this is needed, or else it's confusing as to why something that isn't in the actual, original game is identified as though it is.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per Axis.
#{{User|Scrooge200}} Per Doc. It doesn't make it more clear, it's just confusing because it implies it's in the original game.
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} Until we know what the book itself says, I'm opposing. We can't just go, "Oh, here's this thing from 9 years ago, we can't use images of it because copyright blah blah blah." That would set a precedent that should not get set. Super Mario Pia was brought up in this proposal, as was The Art of Super Mario Odyssey in the linked talkpage, but what about others? I don't want any bad precedents being set.
<strike>#{{User|Pseudo}} Per Axis.</strike> On second thought, choosing to abstain, at least for the time being.


====Comments====
====Comments====
@Axis Put it another way: how legal would it be if you cut down a copyrighted movie in 30 second clips and uploaded all of them to your youtube channel? That's exactly what the wiki does, except with a book. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 12:03, April 23, 2024 (EDT)
{{@|Doc von Schmeltwick}} I disagree. "Gold Medal (''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door'')" is not a name that implies the subject appears in the GameCube game ''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door''; that would be "Gold Medal (''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door'' for Nintendo GameCube)". All the "(''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door'')" identifier suggests is that the subject appears in ''some'' game with that title. The body of the article can specify which game. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 20:12, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
:We're going to abstain from this vote (we're moreso concerned about citogenesis than we are copyright, admittedly, and dealing with the former generally implies dealing with the latter by proxy), but uh. We do kind of do ''exactly that'', as policy, for audio. Like, we know that's not what you meant, you meant uploading the ''whole thing'' in segments, but like, we do just outright have max-30 second excerpts for audio as a policy where going over that isn't allowed... ;P {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 12:36, April 23, 2024 (EDT)
:Common sense dictates the game title refers to the original, not the George Lucas'd Special Edition (that verbiage may be cruel, but I'll stand by it). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:26, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
:There is a pretty big difference, we're not compiling every bit of information into the same page. The information is scattered across the wiki pages, it's just not comparible. By the way, I'm not opposing to removing book scans from the wiki. Maybe the proposal should have more than 2 options? [[User:Axis|Axis]] ([[User talk:Axis|talk]]) 15:15, April 23, 2024 (EDT)
::Would you recommend moving [[Switch (Donkey Kong)|Switch (''Donkey Kong'')]] to "Switch (''Donkey Kong'' for Game Boy)" then? Or [[Floor (Mario Bros.)|Floor (''Mario Bros.'')]] to "Floor (''Mario Bros.'' for arcade)"? {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 20:33, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
::Whether or not what the wiki is doing is 1:1 comparable to my example is irrelevant, what's relevant is that both practices are illegal and may net the owner of the site / YT channel a DMCA strike. You can theoretically read the entire SMB Encyclopedia just by using the search function on the wiki to look up each enemy's bio, and there's a chance far larger than zero that someone would be choosing to go that route instead of buying the book if the wiki actually had complete coverage of it, which is where we're headed now. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 16:07, April 23, 2024 (EDT)
:::[[Floor (Mario Bros.)]] is a bad example; "Floor (Mario Bros. for arcade)" implies that it ''only'' appears in the arcade original, yet it actually appears in ''all'' versions of ''Mario Bros.'', so it being called just "Floor (Mario Bros.)" is actually justified. {{User:Arend/sig}} 20:45, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
:::I'm still not convinced, sorry. [[User:Axis|Axis]] ([[User talk:Axis|talk]]) 00:57, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
::::But it ''doesn't'' appear in [[Mario Bros. (Game & Watch)|the original]]. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 20:46, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
::::Yeah, I'm with Axis here. We're not having 100% coverage, just the bios, mistakes/errors/plagarism, and a gallery. Not a FULL ON EVERYTHING IN THE BOOK IS HERE! thing. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 08:38, April 24, 2024 (CST)
:::::...the ''lesser known'' one, to the point that its identifier is "(Game & Watch)" instead of simply "(game)" that's attached to the arcade version? I feel like if there were floors in the G&W game, such an article is more likely to be called something like "Floor (Mario Bros. for Game & Watch)" simply for how well-known and widespread the arcade version is in comparison. {{User:Arend/sig}} 20:56, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
:::::"We're not having 100% coverage, just the entirety of the book's contents" {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 11:59, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
::::::Therefore, it is not always reasonable to assume that a title without specifying system always refers to "the original". {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 21:02, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
::::::The things actually listed on the [[Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia]] article itself (to be as exceedingly unambiguous as possible, we are referring to the article we just linked to, the one where a Ctrl+F for "MIPS" currently yields no results) are literally just the errors/instances of plagiarism. We sat down and counted that, if you don't include any of the pages with overlap (e.g. Page 241 having both an error unique to the book and born out of citogenesis), we only discuss 67 of the book's 256 pages, plus or minus 4 that lack a page number and we thusly cannot verify, or roughly ≈27.5% of all pages.<br>Many of these are only single-sentence aspects of the pages, and much of these come from the citogenesis examples--it is not "the entirety of the book's contents" (the fact we can't actually prove the exact quantity alone should be proof of that). And given the majority of these are about the plagiarism anyways, we don't exactly feel like humoring the idea that we should just kind of remove these acknowledgements that the book copied from us just because the book is still being sold--that's how you get things like newbies randomly moving articles back to their conjectural titles because "the book said so", even though the book only said so because it copied our work in the first place. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 13:08, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::My impression of the (<game> for <system>) identifier is to use it when one feature appears in one version of a title, but not in another version (or is different in another version), and when it's identical in both versions (or multiple versions), just (<game>) may be used as normal. [[Special:Diff/4035332|this revision]] justifies the (<game> for <system>) for consistency with article such as [[100m (Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games for Nintendo 3DS)]] - which would have to have such a name because [[100m (Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games for Wii U)]] also exists. This kind of identifier is also used after [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/63#Rename pages with the full Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars title|this proposal]] has passed in which to opt out the (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) identifier in favor of the shorter (Super Mario RPG) one, since the remake is simply called "Super Mario RPG" and enemies with the (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) identifier clearly appear in both games; with (Super Mario RPG for Nintendo Switch) being used for features that weren't in the SNES original, and presumably using (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) for features that weren't in the Switch remake. {{User:Arend/sig}} 21:20, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::The proposal has nothing to do with what you wrote. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 13:20, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::Yes, that does appear to be the current way it's being used. The premise of this proposal is to discourage this in cases where it's not strictly necessary, as it makes the article titles longer and less convenient for little to no benefit. This practice of specifying that a subject is exclusive to a later game isn't used consistently anyway (see [[Switch (Donkey Kong)|Switch (''Donkey Kong'')]]), and as the proposal states it falls outside the use case that [[MarioWiki:NAME]] recommends using this format in. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 09:00, June 4, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::Admittedly, we misread on the whole removing things outright thing, that one's on us, oops. <s>we're so tired after last week y'all, this aside ''is'' entirely unrelated to the proposal.</s> However, we do feel like it is worth pointing out that the statement that we cover "the entirety of the book's contents" is inaccurate, which given that statement is directly meant to counter-act Axis' own vote, we think that is reasonably related to the proposal. And, as we mentioned earlier, we're far more concerned with the whole "risk of citogenesis courtesy of the book itself having copied various names that were meant to be conjectural" aspect of that article than we are if we should include images or not, hence why we've abstained from voting. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 13:26, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
:::::That ignores that the arcade one was ''in development'' first, the G&W one just beat it to the release punch on account of being simpler to program and manufacture. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:12, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::::The profiles concerned by this proposal are mainly from the Japanese version of the book, which of course didn't use names from the wiki. This proposal is completely unrelated to the English version having taken names from the wiki (as rare as that is for a discussion about this book). {{User:Hewer/sig}} 13:31, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
::::::Do you have a source for that? If so, you should put that source on the ''Mario Bros.'' (game) article. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 09:21, June 3, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::::...'''We may be stupid''' (as we mentioned, uh, ''we're a little tired from the Everything''. apologies for just kinda barging in and evidently getting tied up in an entirely unrelated article's business... ;P) {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 13:36, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::Considering it's been repeatedly said Miyamoto created Luigi for the arcade game and the G&W games were created without his involvement, it seems pretty self-explanatory. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 10:22, June 3, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::::I feel like our argument is getting semantic. Perhaps I have my large share of blame for framing the issue in absolute terms, but whether the wiki has 100%, 50%, or 20% of the book's content, the point is that said content is substantial enough as to not make its coverage tenable under copyright or fair use laws, and there are currently no restrictions for users to cover that content here in full. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 13:41, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::::So basically no Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 13:43, April 24, 2024 (CST)
:::::::::::I didn't say ''anything'' of this sort. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 15:57, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::::::""We're not having 100% coverage, just the entirety of the book's contents"". "whether the wiki has 100%, 50%, or 20% of the book's content, the point is that said content is substantial enough as to not make its coverage tenable under copyright or fair use laws, and there are currently no restrictions for users to cover that content here in full." Does that not sound like "no Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia? {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 15:39, April 24, 2024 (CST)
:::::::::::::No? "The wiki shouldn't copy so much from the book" is very different from "it should not contain even a single mention of the book". {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 16:42, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::::::::Yeah, and let a lot of work go to waste. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 15:56, April 24, 2024 (CST)
:::::::::::::::Do you wanna get sued? Including all the bios from that book, which is ''the entirety of said book's contents'', while it is still on the market, is still justifiable grounds for a copyright strike. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:27, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::Entirety? As in "Let's ignore the other stuff in this"? And what does the book itself say? {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 17:07, April 24, 2024 (CST)
:::::::::::::::::Literally what "other stuff" in the book? That's all there is. Little pictures (some of the artwork I ''do'' want us to have), and bios. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:12, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::The non-bios. Plus, you didn't answer my other question. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 18:06, April 24, 2024 (CST)
:::::::::::::::::::What "non-bios" do you speak of? Also I could not understand your question. What does the book say on ''what''? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:45, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::::Everything that isn't just bios. And I meant what does the book say in terms of copyright? [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|talk]]) 10:19, April 29, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::::::::''Super Mario Bros.™ 1985-2018 Nintendo. © 2015 Shogakukan. All rights reserved. Dark Horse Books® and the Dark Horse logo are registered trademarks of Dark Horse Comics, Inc. All rights reserved. No portion of this publication may be reproduced or transmitted, in any form or by any means, without the express written permission of Dark Horse Comics, Inc. Names, characters, places, and incidents featured in this publication either are the product of the author's imagination or are used fictitiously. Any resemblance to any persons (living or dead), events, institutions, or locales, without satiric intent, is coincidental.''" You mean that? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:12, April 29, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::::::Yes. But I don't remember anything concerning "-2018"...Maybe it's just me. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|talk]]) 13:27, April 29, 2024 (EDT)  


Genuine question: why are we thinking about this nearly a decade later? This is one of the reasons why I always made it a point to keep citations to their earliest instance. However, there are still plenty of things that are unique to the book to our knowledge, like the tidbit of MIPS being Peach's pet. What happens to that info if the proposal passes? Not to mention, ''Super Mario Pia'' was released around the same time as ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'' - do those profiles not count because they don't have the same global reach? I think maybe a cutoff date needs to be established. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:52, April 23, 2024 (EDT)
Only tangentially related, but why ''are'' the three [[Gold Medal (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door for Nintendo Switch)|Gold]] [[Gold Medal (Super Paper Mario)|Medal]] [[Gold Medal (Yoshi Topsy-Turvy)|items]] split anyways? Sure, they all function differently, but it seems like a fairly generic concept all things considered, and we don't split articles like [[Apple]]s just because they happen to work differently across games. And then [[Medal]] is ''also'' split up even further, but makes no mention of Gold Medals? {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 20:52, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
:The proposal isn't about how the book is cited. The MIPS tidbit and citation can stay; the quote is supplementary, and if it constitutes the entirety of MIPS' description in the book, it can be handily removed with little impact on the subject's coverage and how its info is sourced. I omitted Super Mario Pia out of sheer oversight, admittedly, though given its anniversary nature I'm not sure if it's even sold anymore, and I believe official availability should be our primary cutoff, rather than the publishing date. I'd have Pia handled in another discussion. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 14:11, April 23, 2024 (EDT)
:Have badges ever been merged with other items? As far as I can tell, basically every badge from the first two games has its own article, even ones that are clearly related to and similar to items in other games ([[Power Plus (badge)]] and [[Power Plus (Super Paper Mario)]] for example). [[File:Modern Rocky Wrench SM-k.png|35px|link=]] [[User:Dive Rocket Launcher|Dive]] [[User talk:Dive Rocket Launcher|Rocket]] [[Special:Contributions/Dive Rocket Launcher|Launcher]] 02:16, June 3, 2024 (EDT)
:''Genuine question: why are we thinking about this nearly a decade later?'' I can't speak for the proposer, but in the past week we've had Nintendo issuing a takedown request toward Valve for hosting copyrighted Nintendo assets on Garry's Mod, after 15+ years of seemingly being fine with the stuff. That alone makes this conversation ''very'' relevant. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 16:20, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
::This reminds me to back when [[Talk:Cog (obstacle)#Merge Cog (Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble!) and Cog (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door) into this page and move to "Cog"|this failed proposal]] tried to merge [[Cog (Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble!)]] and [[Cog (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)]] to [[Cog (obstacle)]], even though the former two are collectables and the latter one is an obstacle or platform. I had suggested in my oppose vote to merge the former two in a new article "{{Fake link|Cog (item)}}" instead (which I stand by after finding out there's [[Gear Up|a mission]] in ''[[Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon]]'' where gears had to be collected, which would also fit perfectly for a potential "Cog (item)" page), but proposer Super Mario RPG never added an option for such a thing despite many others agreeing that it would be a good idea. {{User:Arend/sig}} 12:30, June 3, 2024 (EDT)
::Squiddy that's been proven to be a false-flag perpetrated by trolls. That being said, it's in-character for them. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:43, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
::: [https://twitter.com/garrynewman/status/1783501547361411494?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1783501547361411494%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url= Nope]. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 17:45, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
:::To be honest, if push came to shove, we feel like this'd be a rare instance of a proposal being cancelled and immediately coming into effect (that ''has'' happened before, after all, usually with "move to <X> name" proposals that ultimately didn't have any backlash whatsoever--though it coming into use for this circumstance would be rather extraordinary)... though if Nintendo was suing a wiki about their work, why they would ''only'' target an article about a book is another question we really would rather not think much of the implications on. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 17:05, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
::::Again, it's not about the book's article, it's about the book's contents being disseminated across "profiles" pages. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:44, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
::::Now you've done it, Camwoodstock!! Go to the chalkboard and write "this proposal is not about the article on ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia''" 100 times!!! {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 17:58, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
:::::We should've been clearer--we ''know'' it's about the '''''sections on the book that are in other articles' profile sections''''', and '''''NOT strictly just the article on the book and only that article'''''. You really don't need to dogpile us on it at this point. Can we address the thing we actually were trying to talk about in the first place with the whole "our point is asking why Nintendo only sue us over that and not anything else" question? In absolutely zero uncertain terms: We are not comfortable with the repeated teases about our own ambiguous syntax here. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 19:30, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
::::::In that case, it's not ambiguous, you plain and simply said one thing and meant another. Anyways, it's due to it being still in print and the bios in it being the entire point of the book's existence. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:14, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::To play devil's advocate--what about anything else Nintendo's made that's "still in print"? While we know this proposal was only made about removing the mentioned bios and scans, books aren't the only thing that can be "in print". {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 23:51, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::Consider that a lot of uploaded exclusive concept artwork from ''The Art of Super Mario Odyssey'' was removed for the same reason (notably impacting the [[Broodals]] page). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:55, April 26, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::::You know, there may be a flaw with this proposal should it pass...<!--Given the circumstance, I'm pointing this out in the unorthodox form of a hidden note to help ensure editors' eyes only. Even if we "remove" the profiles and such content, it still be accessed by anyone navigating the page histories. If we're that concerned, shouldn't we also go as far as to block portions of those edits without hopefully having to delete entire page revisions?-->...Eh hem. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:12, April 29, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::::That's something I've been aware of since before I even drafted the proposal, but I had no idea how to bring attention to it. Maybe Porplemontage has a solution? 👀 {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 11:21, April 29, 2024 (EDT)


==Changes==
<s>This might just be the most unanimously opposed proposal in Mario Wiki history. No offense to the proposer or anything, but no matter how good this sounded in their head, it would never work out in real life.</s> [[File:Bowsersm64.png|33px]] [[User:MegaBowser64|MegaBowser64]] ([[User talk:MegaBowser64|talk]]) [[File:BowserNSMBU.png|35px]] 19:36, June 3, 2024 (EDT)
''None at the moment.''
: ??? Did you mean to post this on the above proposal? [[User:Shadow2|Shadow2]] ([[User talk:Shadow2|talk]]) 23:09, June 3, 2024 (EDT)
::Uh, yeah. Whoops. [[File:Bowsersm64.png|33px]] [[User:MegaBowser64|MegaBowser64]] ([[User talk:MegaBowser64|talk]]) [[File:BowserNSMBU.png|35px]] 10:25, June 4, 2024 (EDT)
:::We couldn't find if the "rename the wiki" proposal is the proposal with the most opposes, but we can tell you right now [[Talk:Alien (Club Nintendo)#ANTI-ALIEN ALARM!!! (Delete this article)|it'll ''never'' have the most opposition by percentage]]! {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 13:54, June 4, 2024 (EDT)
::::[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/66#Forbid the use of images without captioning them|You sure there aren't better options?]] {{User:Arend/sig}} 18:59, June 4, 2024 (EDT)
:::::We'd argue that the Alien (Club Nintendo) example is funnier just because we opposed it out of the gate despite ''being the creator of the proposal'', whereas the Images proposal lost its vote via means of retracting it after having been talked out of it. The latter at least had (past tense) a vote--the former had none, ever. ;P {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 20:22, June 4, 2024 (EDT)
::::::I don't think [[Talk:Toad Brigade#TPP: Toad Brigade in SMS or not?|this one]] ever had a supporting vote either. {{User:Dive Rocket Launcher/sig}} 20:49, June 4, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/60#Include physical appearance in an infobox|This]] is another example. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 02:57, June 5, 2024 (EDT)


==Miscellaneous==
==Miscellaneous==
''None at the moment.''
''None at the moment.''

Latest revision as of 14:01, June 8, 2024

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page
Current time:
Sunday, June 9th, 01:26 GMT
Proposals can be new features (such as an extension), the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • "Vote" periods last for one week.
  • Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so (not, e.g., "I like this idea!").
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code {{User|User name}}.

How to

Rules

  1. If users have an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with the other users, who will then vote about whether or not they think the idea should be used. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.
  2. Only registered, autoconfirmed users can create, comment in, or vote on proposals and talk page proposals. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
  3. Proposals end at the end of the day (23:59) one week after voting starts, except for writing guidelines and talk page proposals, which run for two weeks (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is one week later on Monday, August 8, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  5. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the administrators.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  6. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(banned)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  7. No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
  8. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  9. All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week. Proposals with more than two options must also be extended another week if any single option does not have a majority support: i.e. more than half of the total number of voters must appear in a single voting option, rather than one option simply having more votes than the other options.
  10. If a proposal with only two voting options has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail with a margin of at least three votes, otherwise the deadline will be extended for another week as if no majority was reached at all.
  11. Proposals can only be extended up to three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, the proposal fails and can only be re-proposed after four weeks, at the earliest.
  12. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  13. If the administrators deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
  14. Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation (six days for talk page proposals). However, proposers can request that their proposal be deleted by an administrator at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  15. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  16. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Users can only be promoted and demoted by the will of the administration.
  17. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  18. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal and support/oppose format

This is an example of what your proposal must look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but what each voting section is supporting must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary.

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|[enter your username here]}}<br>
'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 7 days after the proposal was created (14 for writing guidelines and talk page proposals), at 23:59 GMT, in the format: "June 9, 2024, 23:59 GMT"]

====Support====
#{{User|[enter your username here]}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments====

Users will now be able to vote on your proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert "#{{User|[add your username here]}}" at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can just say "Per my proposal".

Talk page proposals

All proposals dealing with a single article or a specific group of articles are held on the talk page of one of the articles in question. Proposals dealing with massive amounts of splits, merges or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

For a list of all settled talk page proposals, see MarioWiki:Proposals/TPP archive and Category:Settled talk page proposals.

Rules

  1. All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPP discuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place {{TPP}} under the section's header, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}.
  2. All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How to" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3 and 4 as follows:
  3. Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, it ends two weeks later on Monday, August 15, 2011, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. The talk page proposal must pertain to the article it is posted on.
  5. When a talk page proposal passes, it should be removed from this list and included in the list under the "Unimplemented proposals" section until the proposed changes have been enacted.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Split Mario Kart Tour character variants into list articles, Tails777 (ended May 4, 2022)
Establish a standard for long course listings in articles for characters/enemies/items/etc., Koopa con Carne (ended June 8, 2023)
Add tabbers to race/battle course articles, GuntherBB (ended November 18, 2023)
Merge Super Mario Bros. (film) subjects with their game counterparts, JanMisali (ended April 18, 2024)
Remove profiles and certain other content related to the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia from the wiki, Koopa con Carne (ended April 30, 2024)
Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Consider "humorous" and other related terms as frequently misused in MarioWiki:Good writing, DrippingYellow (ended May 26, 2024)
  • ^Note: Requires action from admins.

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Add product IDs in game infoboxes, Windy (ended March 18, 2023)
Convert the lists of episode appearances for television series characters into categories, Camwoodstock (ended November 22, 2023)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Split Mario's Time Machine (Nintendo Entertainment System), or the Super Nintendo Entertainment version along with both console versions of Mario is Missing!, LinkTheLefty (ended April 11, 2024)
Remove non-Super Mario content from Super Smash Bros. series challenges articles, BMfan08 (ended May 3, 2024)
Split Cheep Blimp (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door) and Zeeppelin from the blimp page, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended May 28, 2024)

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

Add parameters for listing related groups to character and species infoboxes

Alright, I know the "Affiliation(s)" parameter for these was deprecated many years ago for being dumb, but hear me out.

A few years after this proposal passed, this wiki added a group infobox for linking to and listing members, member species, and leaders of a group, similar to how the species infobox lists variants, notable members, etc of the species. Thing is, unlike the character and species infoboxes that are designed to link to each other (character's species/species' notable members, species variants/species variants of, and so on), group infoboxes are a one-way street as it currently stands. So, I propose that parameters be added to these infoboxes so they can list the groups they belong to. And to be clear, this parameter would only be used for groups, so we get none of that "Mario is 'affiliated' with his brother and sometimes Bowser" nonsense. This has a much more specific purpose. Right now this wiki doesn't really have lists of groups that characters and species belong to, you have to look through all the articles for groups to find that out, so I think these lists would be worth having.

I've come up with two options:

EDIT: In case it wasn't clear, the parameters would be displayed in a two-column list similar to the species infobox parameters, and would only be used for links (e.g. groups that actually have articles, and not just any arbitrary category people come up with).

Proposer: Dive Rocket Launcher (talk)
Deadline: June 14, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Option 1

  1. Dive Rocket Launcher (talk) First choice per proposal.

Option 2

  1. Dive Rocket Launcher (talk) Second choice per proposal.

Do nothing

  1. DrBaskerville (talk) Whereas a nice idea in theory, I fear we'll see a repeat of everything that led to the previous iteration of this parameter getting deleted in the first place. Unless there will be heavy patrolling of this parameter, which seems unlike given how widespread the Template:Character infobox is, I don't trust leaving it to chance that it will be used responsibly and we won't end up with weird things like Mario being "member of" some ridiculous things like "Mario Bros.", or, just as worse, a long, long, exhaustive list of every organization Mario has ever participated in, e.g. Excess Express passengers, Mario Kart 8 racers (etc., etc.), and so on. Mario is obviously a "worse case" example, but the principles apply to virtually any character who has multiple appearances. In the Goomba example that you provided, for instance, not all Goombas are part of Bowser's Minions. What about the Goombas in Goomba Village or Rogueport or any of the other various non-Bowser-aligned Goombas. You'd just have to get really, really into the weeds to make specific rules for parameter usage, and it will be a pain to enforce them.
  2. SolemnStormcloud (talk) Per DrBaskerville.

Comments

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

Merge the name of Mario family wiki

Mariowiki contains content from Donkey Kong and Wario series despite Mario did not appears. Pauline is an intersection between Mario and Donkey Kong series, so she can be included in either. As independent games of the Mario family including Luigi and Princess Peach released, the name of Mariowiki will no longer be effective. luigiwiki.com and peachwiki.com also redirected to Mariowiki.

Since Mario is from the Mushroom Kingdom, the important thing is that they are the Mario family, so I'd suggest giving them a new name.

Proposer: Windy (talk)
Deadline: June 8, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Option 1: Rename to Mushroomwiki

Option 2: Rename to Kinopedia

  1. Windy (talk) As proposer.
  2. Mario (talk) In fairness this is a kino proposal so this gets my vote.

Status quo

  1. Arend (talk) Current wiki name is fine. It's straight to the point: it's about the Super Mario franchise, and in marketing for this franchise, characters with their own series such as Wario, Yoshi and DK are often included anyway. Something like "Mushroom Wiki" is not clear at all, and are probably even less relevant to the Yoshi, DK or Wario series, since none of their series have anything to do with mushrooms. "Kino" is also German for "cinema", so "Kinopedia" works even less (unless you're trying to say it's a pun on Kinopio rather than Kinoko, in which case that's still worse).
  2. Pseudo (talk) The current wiki name is simple, concise, and great for searchability. Changing it would completely torpedo that for very little gain. While separate, the Donkey Kong, Yoshi, and Wario games are closely related to the Mario franchise, and make sense to be covered on the Mario wiki.
  3. Hewer (talk) The name of the whole franchise is Super Mario, a game doesn't necessarily need to feature Mario to be in the franchise. I don't think anyone is confused to see New Super Luigi U on the Super Mario Wiki. Meanwhile, they most certainly would be confused as to what the hell Mushroom Wiki or Kinopedia is even about, those names are significantly more generic and less recognisable and would create immense amounts of confusion, not solve it. This is a disastrous "solution" to a non-existent issue. (also I'm not entirely sure what you meant when you said Pauline "can be included in either" but the idea that Pauline is the main crossover between the Mario and Donkey Kong franchise rather than their shared origins and DK's continued appearances in Mario games is laughable)
  4. Nightwicked Bowser (talk) Per all, this would be confusing as f**k.
  5. Zootalo (talk) Nah. Per all.
  6. Sparks (talk) Per all.
  7. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - ...why would that be better? It just makes it harder to find. Obtuse names like "JiggyWikki" and "Triforce Wiki" were chosen just because the more obvious "Banjo Wiki" and "Zelda Wiki" were already taken.
  8. Camwoodstock (talk) Per all. "Mushroomwiki" makes us think of a wiki for mushroom foragers, and no offense, but "Kinopedia" make us think of a knockoff of Urban Dictionary--all things considered, we lucked out hard by having the name "Super Mario Wiki" at "mariowiki.com" ripe for the picking; we really, really shouldn't just throw that all away for something obtuse. We are not Elon Musk.
  9. Sdman213 (talk) No. Definitely per all.
  10. MegaBowser64 (talk) What the actual hell. Do I even need to make an argument? per all
  11. SolemnStormcloud (talk) I dislike this idea! (Per all.)
  12. Axis (talk) Per all.
  13. Mario (talk) I think the wiki should continue using my name.
  14. Jazama (talk) Per all
  15. Ahemtoday (talk) These names, especially Kinopedia, are just as tied to specifically-Mario games, and make the wiki's subject much less obvious.
  16. SeanWheeler (talk) I never heard of Kino. And the Mushroom is the the Smash series symbol for Mario and not Donkey Kong (letters DK), Yoshi (egg) or Wario (letter W). The mushroom isn't that essential to DK, Yoshi or Wario, but Mario is a very important figure to the spinoffs. The first Donkey Kong game is the debut of Mario. The Yoshi series has Baby Mario. And Wario is pretty much Mario with the M turned upside-down and was supposed to be a rival to Mario.
  17. Tails777 (talk) Pink Donkey Kong Jr. Wiki, then we'll talk. Otherwise, per all.
  18. Shadow2 (talk) So your argument is "Mariowiki contains content from Donkey Kong and Wario series despite Mario [doesn't appear in those games]", so the solution is to name it after the Mushroom Kingdom...which ALSO doesn't appear in most Donkey Kong and Wario games? Opposing due to nonsensical.
  19. Dive Rocket Launcher (talk) Per all, this rebrand would be almost as bad as what happened to Twitter.
  20. BMfan08 (talk) While everyone else here has already said what I think about this idea, I'd nevertheless like to offer my commentary. Going to the Mushroom Kingdom page, the only instances of Donkey Kong outside of race courses is mention of the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series (Need I say more?) and that Donkey Kong Island is a "surrounding area". Wario is not even mentioned at all outside of the race courses. And that's not even getting into the Mushroom article. While not every wiki is named like ours is, more often than not the title is based on the main subject, and that's why I believe that this wiki has been named the Super Mario Wiki for so long.
  21. TheFlameChomp (talk) Per all.
  22. Nintendo101 (talk) Per everyone!
  23. DrBaskerville (talk) Per Arend
  24. YoYo (talk) if only there was a series that we could use as an umbrella to group all these franchises together. per all.

#Super Mario RPG (talk) Absolutely not. Per all.

Comments

The point is the merging of Mario character names. The domain; Luigiwiki, Peachwiki, DKwiki (or donkeykongwiki.com), Wariowiki, Yoshiwiki and Bowserwiki have all been redirected to Mariowiki. Windy (talk) 10:26, June 1, 2024 (EDT)

Why would that need done? Especially Peach, who has two major games plus an LCD thing under her... petticoat...? (she doesn't have a belt) And Bowser, who has zilch. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 10:38, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
All those URLs already redirect to this site, which I think is what Windy's trying to get at for whatever reason. As for what relevance that's supposed to have to the idea of renaming the wiki, I haven't a clue. Hewer A Hamburger in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. (talk · contributions · edit count) 15:09, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
Windy already stated as such about the luigiwiki.com and peachwiki.com URLs in the proposal itself, directly after stating the MarioWiki name will no longer be effective (which uh, wouldn't be true given the name of the franchise; for some reason, Windy seems to think this wiki is named after the character instead of the franchise). I... think they bring it up to say "oh, we can make mariowiki.com a redirect to the new URL, like the luigiwiki.com and peachwiki.com URLs" (I wouldn't have any idea what else it could've meant). ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 16:21, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
So...where's the issue? What does this have to do with renaming the wiki? Hewer A Hamburger in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. (talk · contributions · edit count) 10:39, June 1, 2024 (EDT)

Let me ask you a question: what is the name of the whole franchise this wiki is about, and covers franchises like Yoshi, Donkey Kong and Wario alike? It's not some weird merger of names, not something like "Mushroom" or "Kinoko" or even the "Mario family" (which admittedly is a better to name a wiki after than "Mushroom"/"Kinoko"). No, it's Super Mario. "Super Mario Wiki" is still a perfectly fine name for the subjects this wiki is talking about. While this wiki does contain content from the Donkey Kong and Wario series despite Mario "did not appears", there's really no need to rename this wiki since Yoshi, DK and Wario are still characters in the franchise that Mario is the center of. And so are Luigi, Peach and Toad: all six of these are always to be recognized as Super Mario characters, so even if Mario doesn't appear in some games that these others star in, the current name of our wiki is still effective and relevant. ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 10:47, June 1, 2024 (EDT)

For the record, Mario Family is also a bad name. Hewer A Hamburger in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. (talk · contributions · edit count) 15:09, June 1, 2024 (EDT)

Dunno guys, I think Windy's got a point about the second option: Mario's pretty kino. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 15:28, June 1, 2024 (EDT)

But is he the epitome? If we wanna name the wiki after the most Mario adjective, we've got a better option - Hewer A Hamburger in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. (talk · contributions · edit count) 15:37, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
If we're talking about the cream of the crop, Luigi's got two much better contenders. Wario, Luigi, and Donkey Kong in the intro to Mario Party. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 15:55, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
Mario relaxing in the intro to Mario Party 3. NO ONE TOPS MARIO. Icon showing how many lives Mario has left. From Super Mario 64 DS. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 16:09, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
Guys, we're all overlooking the obvious candidate--it's literally 4/7ths of her name. ~Camwoodstock (talk) 16:18, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
DID MARIO STUTTER Icon showing how many lives Mario has left. From Super Mario 64 DS. It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 16:25, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
We could alternatively pick any of these names. How does MarieWiki sound? ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 16:28, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
Kinoppe's described as a follower of Dr. Mario's daughter (that was the grammar on the original article we don't get it either)! She was born because of Mario with a PhD! ~Camwoodstock (talk) 16:32, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
Actually, she's stated to be a follower of Peach and Dr. Mario's daughter. I think that's to say she's Dr. Mario's daughter and a follower of Peach, instead of a follower of the daughter of Peach and Dr. Mario (Yeah I completely agree that sentence was grammatically confusing) ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 16:50, June 1, 2024 (EDT)

As an aside--so, um, do mushrooms all appear in the spinoff side-series??? We know there's mushrooms in the original Luigi's Mansion (namely the Poison Mushroom) and in the WarioWare series (they repeatedly appear in microgames), but like, are there any in the Wario Land games? Are there any in the Donkey Kong games? We aren't exactly familiar with Every Single Mario Video Game Ever Released, but like, it's not like Mario games are even defined by having a mushroom in them in the first place; both Mario Bros. games lack them, and those are literally named based on the fact that Mario is in them. ~Camwoodstock (talk) 16:18, June 1, 2024 (EDT)

I already stated in my oppose vote that mushrooms are barely relevant in any of the Yoshi, DK and Wario games. It's really only Mario-specific. ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 16:28, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
We knew they weren't relevant to them, that's definitely not in question for us. Our question is if Mushrooms made a meaningful appearance in any of them. ;P ~Camwoodstock (talk) 16:32, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
"It's really only Mario-specific" Nuh-uh, I'll have you know this is a real mushroom inspired by the mushrooms that slide on the ground in mario games. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 17:02, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
Ah of course, excuse me for forgetting about the true emblems and stars of the DK franchise. Hewer A Hamburger in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. (talk · contributions · edit count) 18:36, June 1, 2024 (EDT)

Discourage "([Title] for [system])" disambiguation format when "([Title])" alone is sufficient to identify the subject

These past months, there have been some remakes that share titles with the games they're remaking. This has led to a few new articles with titles ending with "([Title] for [system])", such as Scrapbook (Super Mario RPG for Nintendo Switch) and Gold Medal (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door for Nintendo Switch). However, this long-winded double-disambiguation format is not always strictly necessary, and both of these example articles fall outside of the specific use case MarioWiki:NAME recommends using this format in. There isn't a Scrapbook in the original Super Mario RPG, and there isn't a Gold Medal in the original Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door. These are not cases where "two different games share the same title but appear on different consoles and the identifier needs to distinguish between them" (emphasis added).

I propose a change to the naming policy to explicitly discourage using this disambiguation format in such cases. If the game title alone is enough to specify the subject, including the system in the article title is unnecessary and awkward. Those details belong in the article itself, not the title.

Proposer: JanMisali (talk)
Deadline: June 9, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support change

  1. JanMisali (talk) As proposer.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) Erring on this for the time being. We get the counter-arguments, but it's usually clear from the article's body itself that the content is exclusive to a given remake of a video game that happens to hold a similar name, and it's not like we even apply these nametags consistently anyways--if a thing has a more specific name that isn't already shared with something else, like Hottest Dog or Goomboss Battle, we don't append these "<name> for <console>" tags. As it stands, if you need the title to clarify it's exclusive to a remake, then something's probably wrong in the article itself.
  3. Shadow2 (talk) Trim! Trim the excess!
  4. MegaBowser64 (talk) Per all. And uh, sorry for accidentally roasting this proposal with my comment lol.
  5. Dive Rocket Launcher (talk) I find it strange that this additional disambiguation is used for version-exclusive content only if the article already needs a distinguisher. Nostalgic Tunes's title doesn't have to clarify that it's exclusive to the TTYD remake specifically, so why does Gold Medal need to? Or maybe we need to go the Nintendo route and call it "Gold Medal in the Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door game for the Nintendo Switch family of systems"
  6. Jdtendo (talk) Per all.
  7. DrBaskerville (talk) Per Camwoodstock and Dive Rocket Launcher.
  8. EvieMaybe (talk) per all for nintendo switch
  9. SeanWheeler (talk) Better to shorten the titles than to add unnessarily long parentheticals. No need to disambiguate when the subject only appears in one version. The "(<title> for <console>)" parenthetical should only be used for subjects with different pages for each version, like 100m (Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games for Wii).

#Super Mario RPG (talk) Per all

Oppose change

  1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - "There isn't a Scrapbook in the original Super Mario RPG, and there isn't a Gold Medal in the original Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door" ...that is precisely why this is needed, or else it's confusing as to why something that isn't in the actual, original game is identified as though it is.
  2. Scrooge200 (talk) Per Doc. It doesn't make it more clear, it's just confusing because it implies it's in the original game.

Comments

@Doc von Schmeltwick I disagree. "Gold Medal (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)" is not a name that implies the subject appears in the GameCube game Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door; that would be "Gold Medal (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door for Nintendo GameCube)". All the "(Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)" identifier suggests is that the subject appears in some game with that title. The body of the article can specify which game. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 20:12, June 2, 2024 (EDT)

Common sense dictates the game title refers to the original, not the George Lucas'd Special Edition (that verbiage may be cruel, but I'll stand by it). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:26, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
Would you recommend moving Switch (Donkey Kong) to "Switch (Donkey Kong for Game Boy)" then? Or Floor (Mario Bros.) to "Floor (Mario Bros. for arcade)"? jan Misali (talk · contributions) 20:33, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
Floor (Mario Bros.) is a bad example; "Floor (Mario Bros. for arcade)" implies that it only appears in the arcade original, yet it actually appears in all versions of Mario Bros., so it being called just "Floor (Mario Bros.)" is actually justified. ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 20:45, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
But it doesn't appear in the original. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 20:46, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
...the lesser known one, to the point that its identifier is "(Game & Watch)" instead of simply "(game)" that's attached to the arcade version? I feel like if there were floors in the G&W game, such an article is more likely to be called something like "Floor (Mario Bros. for Game & Watch)" simply for how well-known and widespread the arcade version is in comparison. ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 20:56, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
Therefore, it is not always reasonable to assume that a title without specifying system always refers to "the original". jan Misali (talk · contributions) 21:02, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
My impression of the (<game> for <system>) identifier is to use it when one feature appears in one version of a title, but not in another version (or is different in another version), and when it's identical in both versions (or multiple versions), just (<game>) may be used as normal. this revision justifies the (<game> for <system>) for consistency with article such as 100m (Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games for Nintendo 3DS) - which would have to have such a name because 100m (Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games for Wii U) also exists. This kind of identifier is also used after this proposal has passed in which to opt out the (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) identifier in favor of the shorter (Super Mario RPG) one, since the remake is simply called "Super Mario RPG" and enemies with the (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) identifier clearly appear in both games; with (Super Mario RPG for Nintendo Switch) being used for features that weren't in the SNES original, and presumably using (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) for features that weren't in the Switch remake. ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 21:20, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
Yes, that does appear to be the current way it's being used. The premise of this proposal is to discourage this in cases where it's not strictly necessary, as it makes the article titles longer and less convenient for little to no benefit. This practice of specifying that a subject is exclusive to a later game isn't used consistently anyway (see Switch (Donkey Kong)), and as the proposal states it falls outside the use case that MarioWiki:NAME recommends using this format in. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 09:00, June 4, 2024 (EDT)
That ignores that the arcade one was in development first, the G&W one just beat it to the release punch on account of being simpler to program and manufacture. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:12, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
Do you have a source for that? If so, you should put that source on the Mario Bros. (game) article. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 09:21, June 3, 2024 (EDT)
Considering it's been repeatedly said Miyamoto created Luigi for the arcade game and the G&W games were created without his involvement, it seems pretty self-explanatory. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 10:22, June 3, 2024 (EDT)

Only tangentially related, but why are the three Gold Medal items split anyways? Sure, they all function differently, but it seems like a fairly generic concept all things considered, and we don't split articles like Apples just because they happen to work differently across games. And then Medal is also split up even further, but makes no mention of Gold Medals? ~Camwoodstock (talk) 20:52, June 2, 2024 (EDT)

Have badges ever been merged with other items? As far as I can tell, basically every badge from the first two games has its own article, even ones that are clearly related to and similar to items in other games (Power Plus (badge) and Power Plus (Super Paper Mario) for example). A Rocky Wrench in volume 45 of Super Mario-kun Dive Rocket Launcher 02:16, June 3, 2024 (EDT)
This reminds me to back when this failed proposal tried to merge Cog (Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble!) and Cog (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door) to Cog (obstacle), even though the former two are collectables and the latter one is an obstacle or platform. I had suggested in my oppose vote to merge the former two in a new article "Cog (item)" instead (which I stand by after finding out there's a mission in Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon where gears had to be collected, which would also fit perfectly for a potential "Cog (item)" page), but proposer Super Mario RPG never added an option for such a thing despite many others agreeing that it would be a good idea. ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 12:30, June 3, 2024 (EDT)

This might just be the most unanimously opposed proposal in Mario Wiki history. No offense to the proposer or anything, but no matter how good this sounded in their head, it would never work out in real life. Super Mario 64 promotional artwork MegaBowser64 (talk) Artwork of Bowser in New Super Mario Bros. U 19:36, June 3, 2024 (EDT)

??? Did you mean to post this on the above proposal? Shadow2 (talk) 23:09, June 3, 2024 (EDT)
Uh, yeah. Whoops. Super Mario 64 promotional artwork MegaBowser64 (talk) Artwork of Bowser in New Super Mario Bros. U 10:25, June 4, 2024 (EDT)
We couldn't find if the "rename the wiki" proposal is the proposal with the most opposes, but we can tell you right now it'll never have the most opposition by percentage! ~Camwoodstock (talk) 13:54, June 4, 2024 (EDT)
You sure there aren't better options? ArendLogoTransparent.pngrend (talk) (edits) 18:59, June 4, 2024 (EDT)
We'd argue that the Alien (Club Nintendo) example is funnier just because we opposed it out of the gate despite being the creator of the proposal, whereas the Images proposal lost its vote via means of retracting it after having been talked out of it. The latter at least had (past tense) a vote--the former had none, ever. ;P ~Camwoodstock (talk) 20:22, June 4, 2024 (EDT)
I don't think this one ever had a supporting vote either. I need more wrenches... Dive Rocket Launcher 20:49, June 4, 2024 (EDT)
This is another example. Hewer A Hamburger in Super Smash Bros. Brawl. (talk · contributions · edit count) 02:57, June 5, 2024 (EDT)

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.

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