MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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I don't get what's acceptable about setting a standard for "microgame" but not for "coin"? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 17:14, 26 August 2017 (EDT)
I don't get what's acceptable about setting a standard for "microgame" but not for "coin"? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 17:14, 26 August 2017 (EDT)
::It's capitalized in the tutorial of Mario Party 2, but not capitalized in the tutorial of Mario Party 3. It's inconsistent between such close games. A better choice would be to capitalize it depending on the game, and have the higher case be more dominant otherwise (because it is a main item), but I feel this is such a minor unnoticeable issue, yet the "do nothing" option does not convince me. --{{User:Megadardery/sig}} 06:30, 27 August 2017 (EDT)


==Removals==
==Removals==

Revision as of 06:30, August 27, 2017

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page
Current time:
Sunday, May 12th, 20:03 GMT
Proposals can be new features (such as an extension), the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • "Vote" periods last for one week.
  • Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so (not, e.g., "I like this idea!").
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code {{User|User name}}.

How to

Rules

  1. If users have an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with the other users, who will then vote about whether or not they think the idea should be used. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.
  2. Only registered, autoconfirmed users can create, comment in, or vote on proposals and talk page proposals. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
  3. Proposals end at the end of the day (23:59) one week after voting starts, except for writing guidelines and talk page proposals, which run for two weeks (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is one week later on Monday, August 8, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  5. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the administrators.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  6. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(banned)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  7. No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
  8. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  9. All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week. Proposals with more than two options must also be extended another week if any single option does not have a majority support: i.e. more than half of the total number of voters must appear in a single voting option, rather than one option simply having more votes than the other options.
  10. If a proposal with only two voting options has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail by a margin of three votes, otherwise the deadline will be extended for another week as if no majority was reached at all.
  11. Proposals can only be extended up to three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, the proposal fails and can only be re-proposed after four weeks, at the earliest.
  12. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  13. If the administrators deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
  14. Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation (six days for talk page proposals). However, proposers can request that their proposal be deleted by an administrator at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  15. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  16. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Users can only be promoted and demoted by the will of the administration.
  17. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  18. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal and support/oppose format

This is an example of what your proposal must look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but what each voting section is supporting must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary.

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|[enter your username here]}}<br>
'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 7 days after the proposal was created (14 for writing guidelines and talk page proposals), at 23:59 GMT, in the format: "May 12, 2024, 23:59 GMT"]

====Support====
#{{User|[enter your username here]}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments====

Users will now be able to vote on your proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert "#{{User|[add your username here]}}" at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can just say "Per my proposal".

Talk page proposals

All proposals dealing with a single article or a specific group of articles are held on the talk page of one of the articles in question. Proposals dealing with massive amounts of splits, merges or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

For a list of all settled talk page proposals, see MarioWiki:Proposals/TPP archive and Category:Settled talk page proposals.

Rules

  1. All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPPDiscuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place {{TPP}} under the section's header, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{SettledTPP}}.
  2. All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How to" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3 and 4 as follows:
  3. Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, it ends two weeks later on Monday, August 15, 2011, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. The talk page proposal must pertain to the article it is posted on.
  5. When a talk page proposal passes, it should be removed from this list and included in the list under the "Unimplemented proposals" section until the proposed changes have been enacted.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Merge the Wrecking Crew and VS. Wrecking Crew phases into list articles, Axis (ended February 24, 2022)
Do not consider usage of classic recurring themes as references to the game of origin, Swallow (ended March 9, 2022)
Split Mario Kart Tour character variants into list articles, Tails777 (ended May 4, 2022)
Enforce WCAG Level AA standards to mainspace and template content, PanchamBro (ended May 29, 2022)
Change how RPG enemy infoboxes classify role, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 18, 2022)
Trim away detailed special move information for all non-Mario fighters, Koopa con Carne (ended January 30, 2023)
Classify the Just Dance series as a guest appearance, Spectrogram (ended April 27, 2023)
Establish a standard for long course listings in articles for characters/enemies/items/etc., Koopa con Carne (ended June 8, 2023)
Consider filenames as sources and create redirects, Axis (ended August 24, 2023)
Add tabbers to race/battle course articles, GuntherBB (ended November 18, 2023)
Remove elemental creatures categories from various Super Mario RPG enemies, Swallow (ended January 11, 2024)
Standardize the formatting of foreign and explanatory words and phrases in "Names in other languages" tables, Annalisa10 (ended February 7, 2024)
Merge Super Mario Bros. (film) subjects with their game counterparts, JanMisali (ended April 18, 2024)
Remove profiles and certain other content related to the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia from the wiki, Koopa con Carne (ended April 30, 2024)
Create The Cutting Room Floor link template, Bro Hammer (ended May 7, 2024)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split the various reissues of Mario Bros., Doc von Schmeltwick (ended April 22, 2022)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Expand source priority exception to include regional English differences, LinkTheLefty (ended January 14, 2023)
Add product IDs in game infoboxes, Windy (ended March 18, 2023)
Remove the list of Super Smash Bros. series objects, Axis (ended May 10, 2023)
Merge Start Dash with Rocket Start, Koopa con Carne (ended August 17, 2023)
Use italics for the full title of the Mario Kart 8 Deluxe – Booster Course Pass, Hewer (ended September 15, 2023)
Split Special Shot into separate articles by game, Technetium (ended September 30, 2023)
Convert the lists of episode appearances for television series characters into categories, Camwoodstock (ended November 22, 2023)
Decide which series certain Yoshi games are related to, GuntherBB (ended December 14, 2023)
Change the Super Mario 64 DS level section to include more specific character requirements, Altendo (ended December 20, 2023)
Replace "List of Game Over screens" and "'Game Over' as death" sections with a "History" section, DrippingYellow (ended December 20, 2023)
Split the Jungle Buddies from Animal Friends, DrippingYellow (ended December 22, 2023)
Make major changes to the MarioWiki:Links page, PnnyCrygr (ended January 10, 2024)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Merge the ghost Bats and Mice from Luigi's Mansion to their respective organic counterparts from the later games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 20, 2024)
Split Strobomb from Robomb, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 20, 2024)
Split the NES and SNES releases of Wario's Woods, SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (ended March 27, 2024)
Merge Mii Brawler, Mii Swordfighter, and Mii Gunner to Mii, TheUndescribableGhost (ended March 28, 2024)
Merge Masterpieces to the Super Smash Bros. Brawl and Super Smash Bros. for Wii U articles, Camwoodstock (ended March 31, 2024)
Split Mario's Time Machine (Nintendo Entertainment System), or the Super Nintendo Entertainment version along with both console versions of Mario is Missing!, LinkTheLefty (ended April 11, 2024)
Rename Beanstalk to Vine, DrippingYellow (ended April 11, 2024)
Remove non-Super Mario content from Super Smash Bros. series challenges articles, BMfan08 (ended May 3, 2024)
Merge Stompybot 3000 with Colonel Pluck, DrippingYellow (ended May 4, 2024)
Merge Party Ball (item) with Party Ball, GuntherBayBee (ended May 5, 2024)

List of talk page proposals

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

Is it "Coin" or "coin"?

Currently, the wiki has no set standard for the capitalization of the golden that Mario and co. collect in abundance across the franchise: is it "Coin", with a capital C, or "coin", with a lowercase c? This isn't entirely clear-cut: from the games that I've looked at, there are many that do not capitalize it, including most recently Mario Party 8, Sm4sh, and New Super Mario Bros. 2, but there are also other games that capitalize it, including New Super Mario Bros. Wii and Mario Party, and there's something odd and inconsistent about listing the Red Coin, the Purple Coin, the Blue Coin, the 20 Coin, the Key Coin, and many others as being derivatives of the coin. That lowercase "coin" seems out of place, doesn't it? Lowercasing it just because it's a generic noun doesn't hold either; the Mushroom is plainly and consistently capitalized in just about every circumstances. If you're going to say it's because the Mario Mushrooms obviously aren't like the real-life mushrooms, then I'd argue the same goes for the floating, golden, abundant Coins. There is a precedent for not capitalizing the names of subjects with, for example, treasure chest (despite there being at least one in-game source that capitalizes them, but that's an issue for another time), but it's a moot point if the subject isn't generic in the first place.

This may seem like a trivially minor issue, but at the same time, this is an issue that has yet to reach a decisive conclusion. I fail to see a reason why we shouldn't strive for consistency, especially since we've already had a proposal to decide on a set spelling for minigame (spoilers: we decided on minigame).

Proposer: Time Turner (talk)
Deadline: September 2, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Use "Coin"

  1. Time Turner (talk) It's hardly as if no official sources have ever not capitalized it. Per proposal.
  2. Niiue (talk) Per Time Turner.
  3. Andymii (talk) Per proposal.
  4. Alex95 (talk) - Originally voted to do nothing as I thought this was also talking about coins in a broader term, i.e. also including Red Coins and Blue Coins. But for referring to just the standard Yellow Coins, yes, "Coin" should be capitalized (at least in instances outside of quotes).
  5. Mario jc (talk) Per Alex, and supporting for consistency (unless "coin" is used in generic terms; see this).

Use "coin"

  1. Yoshi the SSM (talk) See comments.
  2. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) Alternate vote here, because the games themselves almost always refer to them in lowercase. Still, silly proposal.

Do nothing

  1. Toadette the Achiever (talk) I highly doubt that there is enough definitive official sources that specifically stick to one capitalization. I'd rather stick with this option until an official capitalization is given, and right now, there doesn't seem to be.
  2. Yoshi the SSM (talk) See comments.
  3. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) While this has bugged me minorly before, this proposal is honestly kind of silly.
  4. TheFlameChomp (talk) Per all.

Comments

If anyone has any more in-game citations for "Coin" or "coin" from any games that haven't been mentioned, then I'm all-ears. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 00:16, 26 August 2017 (EDT)

@Toadette: I don't see why we should be inconsistent solely because the games also happen to be inconsistent. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 00:47, 26 August 2017 (EDT)

@Time Turner: Changed the content of my vote. Toadette icon CTTT.pngFont of Archivist Toadette's signature(T|C) 00:50, 26 August 2017 (EDT)
What kind of official capitalization do you want? Is it necessary for Nintendo to make a press release declaring whether it's lowercase or up case? Through the simple fact that the names are seen in plain text, we already have an abundance of official names. It's up to us to decide how we should use the information. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 00:52, 26 August 2017 (EDT)
“Next, we'll learn about one of the most recognizable things in any Mario game: coins File:CoinNSMBW.png”
—Mary O., Super Mario Maker for Nintendo 3DS
“Second, coins will guide the player.”
—Yamamura, Super Mario Maker for Nintendo 3DS

I say this is as official as you can get. Although, this could be on a game to game basis. Red Yoshi in a construction hat walking Yoshi the SSM (talk) 01:37, 26 August 2017 (EDT)

@Doc: Why? Hello, I'm Time Turner. 02:54, 26 August 2017 (EDT)

Because it's an inanimate object that is super inconsistent as to how it's capitalized. Honestly, if you wanna go by policy, see how the latest game spells it. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:58, 26 August 2017 (CT)
If we strictly followed every new game, the spelling might constantly change, and there are likely cases in which there's no adequate source for capitalization. Best to nip it in the bud, no? I also don't get your point with it being an inanimate object. Hello, I'm Time Turner. 03:06, 26 August 2017 (EDT)

I don't get what's acceptable about setting a standard for "microgame" but not for "coin"? Hello, I'm Time Turner. 17:14, 26 August 2017 (EDT)

It's capitalized in the tutorial of Mario Party 2, but not capitalized in the tutorial of Mario Party 3. It's inconsistent between such close games. A better choice would be to capitalize it depending on the game, and have the higher case be more dominant otherwise (because it is a main item), but I feel this is such a minor unnoticeable issue, yet the "do nothing" option does not convince me. --
User:MegadarderyUser talk:MegadarderyDashbot signature
 06:30, 27 August 2017 (EDT)

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

None at the moment.

Miscellaneous

Decide if the Mario's Time Machine historical figures are characters and/or people

(for the purposes of the wiki and as it is used in this proposal, a "character" is someone fictional while a "person" is someone real)

This proposal, stemming from a discussion on Template talk:People, primarily centers around the numerous historical figures that appear in Mario's Time Machine. Note that this proposal currently does not cover the game's developers who inserted themselves into the game while directly using their names, faces, and voices, but that's a can of worms that I'll set aside for the moment. When it comes to the actual historical figures themselves, everyone from the game (who has an article) was a real, breathing person who impacted the course of history. They aren't just satirical or obviously fictionalized versions of the actual people: in the context of the game, Mario is traveling back in time and meeting the real people themselves. We also have a template, {{People}}, that lists the real people that have contributed to the Mario franchise. With that in mind, should these historical figures be listed in this template? There are other ramifications as well, but this is the most obvious example of what will be changed.

To some extent, these characters are similar to some of the guest stars of The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!. Ernie Hudson, for example, is a real, living person (who happens to still be alive!), but at the same time, he's not literally himself in the show, but rather a fictionalized version of himself based on the role he played in the fictional film Ghostbusters. Even with more mundane examples like Nicole Eggert, there's still a quirk or an oddity about them that obviously only exists because they're characters. Due to this, they, along with several others like David Horowitz, Shabba-Doo, Jim Lange, and others, are currently being treated as both characters and people.

However, there's a notable difference: in the show, these real characters are being portrayed by the actual people, whereas the historical figures in Mario's Time Machine are, obviously, not portrayed by their real life counterparts. Ernie Hudson the character is played by Ernie Hudson the actor. Thus, merely being based on a real person isn't necessarily enough to be considered as an actual person. For example, Cher, while being a real person, is not played by the real Cherilyn Sarkisian, so she is only treated as a character. The historical figures are simply blobs of pixels played by a random voice actor, and not a real person portraying a live-action character directly based on themselves while also having the same name as themselves. However, at the same time, the historical figures are literally supposed to be the real people, and they are presented to the player as such (ignoring the odd joke or historical inaccuracy). Even if the literal real-life Marco Polo isn't playing himself in the game, is it still fair to describe the in-game Marco Polo as not being real?

There's perhaps also an argument to be made about including Cher and similar subjects in the People template or not including the guest stars at all, but for now, this is the way things are. In short, there are three options for dealing with this:

Option 1: They are characters.

This is currently how the characters are treated on the wiki. Essentially, this is the "do nothing" option. The historical figures will be treated as purely fictional characters, and no categories or templates will be updated.

Option 2: They are people.

They will be treated as though they are the real historical figures and not as fictional characters. This involves removing them from {{Humans}}, placing them on {{People}}, and adjusting the categories on their page so that they're treated as real people (for example, Category:Deceased People, would be applied to the vast majority of them).

Option 3: They are both.

Following the guest stars from The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!, this involves leaving them in their current templates and categories while also placing them on {{People}}. This also involves making the same adjustments as in the second option, though without any potential removals.

(technically, there's a fourth option in which they're neither characters nor people, but that's silly and won't be taken into account)

After going through all of this, I personally think that the historical figures are too separated from their real life counterparts to be exclusively considered people, but consideration should also be given to the fact that they are, to some extent, their real life counterparts. Still, this is meant to be decided by the users of the wiki. With all of this information having been presented, what do you think?

Proposer: Time Turner (talk)
Deadline: September 1, 2017, 23:59 GMT

Option 1: They are characters

  1. Time Turner (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Toadette the Achiever (talk) This is my preferred option. People should only be added to the people template if they don't necessarily appear in any real Mario media; they just appear in promotional videos or videos, and they are real people who are associated with Nintendo in some way or another.

Option 2: They are people

  1. Yoshi the SSM (talk) They are real people. Since most of them are dead, they wouldn't have their real life counterpart for them to be portrayed. It may seem weird to list them with the video game developers, but this then again, these people are listed in the template, humans, weirdly. I mean, who wants Abraham Lincoln, Henry Ford, and Mozart with Ace, Alex, Mario, Luigi, Peach, Daisy, and the last four's baby counterparts. They should be removed from that section. Preferably by outright removing them.
  2. 3D Player 2010 (talk) per all

Option 3: They are characters and people

  1. Time Turner (talk) Per proposal.
  2. Yoshi the SSM (talk) Per what I said in the above option, but with some added stuff besides what is mentioned in the proposal. If this option is taken, however, the human template should be updated to have those in Mario's Time Machine separated from Mario franchise, but near it. Although this is just a suggestion, this is what I recommend.
  3. Alex95 (talk) - They appear(ed) in both reality and the games, so it makes sense to me that they would be classified as both.
  4. TheFlameChomp (talk) Per Alex95.
  5. Baby Luigi (talk) Portrayals of real life characters in fictional narratives undertake a lot of different artistic interpretations to alter them in an environment they are worth suited for, and therefore would be considered fictional in a way, and therefore, called a "character". Unlike our articles here that deal with real people, which has their biographies and their roles down, the characters in the Mario is Missing game and other titles are definitely altered from their nonfictional environment to be considered fictional to an extent, and they are NPCs in a game that have the same level as interaction as all other NPCs in other video games. It is worth noting that these people are still direct inspirations from actual living people and retains a lot of traits that are common knowledge to them, so they should definitely be also classified as people as well, unlike parodies of people like those with slightly different names than the ones they are based off of. I'm also not opposed to a creation of a new category dedicated to this hybrid, "Characters directly based off real people" or something like that, my wording is terrible. Bottom line is, this is the most attractive option for me.
  6. Niiue (talk) Per all.
  7. Shokora (talk) – This makes the most sense to me. Per all.

Comments

Articles that will be affected:

Future articles that will be affected:

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