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Rewrite cited quotes into a new style
Do not change 4-7
It's been two years since the {{ref quote}} was deleted. This time, I was wondering if there's a possibility to rewrite the cited quotes into a new style to match the Wikipedia citation templates {{Cite video game}}, {{Cite episode}}, and {{AV media}}. Here are some examples:
<ref>[[Nintendo Entertainment Analysis and Development|Nintendo EAD Tokyo]] (November 1, 2007). ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]'' ([[Wii]]). [[Nintendo]]. Level/area: [[Bubble Blastoff]]. "'''[[Captain Toad]]''': 'That Undergrunt Gunner is keeping us from exploring the area!'"</ref>
=
Nintendo EAD Tokyo (November 1, 2007). Super Mario Galaxy (Wii). Nintendo. Level/area: Bubble Blastoff. "Captain Toad: 'That Undergrunt Gunner is keeping us from exploring the area!'"
<ref>Shelly, Bruce; Shelly, Reed (September 8, 1990). "[[Sneaky Lying Cheating Giant Ninja Koopas]]". ''[[The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3]]''. Episode 1. "'''Royal Parrot''': 'You can't evict me! Braw! I'm the Royal Parrot!'"</ref>
=
Shelly, Bruce; Shelly, Reed (September 8, 1990). "Sneaky Lying Cheating Giant Ninja Koopas". The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3. Episode 1. "Royal Parrot: 'You can't evict me! Braw! I'm the Royal Parrot!'"
<ref>Coffin, Pierre; Balda, Kyle Balda (director) (June 14, 2017). ''{{wp|Despicable Me 3}}'' (Motion picture). "'''Bratt''': 'It's on like Donkey Kong!'"</ref>
=
Coffin, Pierre; Balda, Kyle Balda (director) (June 14, 2017). Despicable Me 3 (Motion picture). "Bratt: 'It's on like Donkey Kong!'"
Proposer: GuntherBB (talk)
Deadline: January 27, 2024, 23:59 GMT
Support
- GuntherBB (talk) Per proposal
- Koopa con Carne (talk) standard good, disorder bad
- Super Mario RPG (talk) Per both, especially if this allows us to have citation templates.
- Camwoodstock (talk) Y'know? Now that it's been brought up, it is kinda weird we just lack a template for stock citations... at all. We have a template for consistent inter-wiki links, a template for consistent ways to depict controller buttons, a template for consistent ways to put dividing dots into navboxes, but a template for consistent citations is just Not A Thing. This would certainly make it easier to create new citations for people not as involved in the process if nothing else, and so long as the template follows our citation guidelines (which, it looks like they do), there isn't really any harm in having a bespoke template for these.
#Hewer (talk) As long as it stays optional, per all.
Oppose
- PnnyCrygr (talk) As User:Wayoshi puts it, "We are not Wikipedia." Also, unnecessary.
- YoYo (talk) per PnnyCrygr.
- DrippingYellow (talk) I had to think about it, but I'll have to oppose. I'm OK with books, magazines, and external websites getting sufficient citations, but going this in-depth for quoting a Mario game just seems redundant. And yes, I'm aware this isn't a requirement, but why would I support the addition of a template for an extravagant style of references I don't think are necessary most of the time?
- Ahemtoday (talk) I'm in an awkward situation here, because I do support having a more solid guideline for citations, but I feel like these specific guidelines are awkward for our purposes, especially the video game one. This level of depth makes sense for a generalist wiki that will usually be citing research papers and occasionally cites media, but we're a media-focused wiki. Half the time, the stuff we'll be citing will have its own article, so things like listing the publisher and developer of a video game just to cite it doesn't feel like it makes sense to me.
- Hewer (talk) On second thought, per DrippingYellow and Ahemtoday.
- ThePowerPlayer (talk) Normally, I'd be all for standardization, but implementing guidelines for citations is a delicate balance between the level of detail of the citation and the ease at which a user can add such a citation to an article. These citation formats are simply too complex for the narrower context of this wiki, and they include an unnecessary amount of arbitrary information beyond the quote itself, which is by far the most important part of the citation.
- Mario (talk) Proposal hasn't clearly outlined the issue nor does it explain how the effected changes will be an improvement. See comment.
Will this proposal allow for the aforementioned citation templates to be created? I'm not completely clear on what this proposal is aiming to accomplish, but I would support citation templates, to help create a consistency around the use of the references tags. Super Mario RPG (talk) 00:39, January 20, 2024 (EST)
- Last time a template was proposed for citations (by some bloke named Bye Guy, I wonder how he's doing today), people were strongly (and I mean, strongly) against it for a reason I can't, to this day, grasp. It might have to do with the fact that people somehow misinterpreted that proposal as "let's make *this* layout a policy" when it was more so "let's make a template that could aid in making citations more consistent and allow for quick mass modifications if the used format is ever codified or changed". Someone even accused me of wanting to "enforce policy" because of personal convenience, even though the very point of templates is to make editing more convenient, but I digress--my points weren't too articulate either, so I have my share of blame. Problem was, I couldn't have proposed a template without a given format, so I guess my mistake was the misplaced priority: some standard formats should have been discussed first, perhaps leading to a proposal specific to that topic, and only when an agreement was reached between users would I have followed up with a template proposal. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 16:10, January 20, 2024 (EST)
- There is a frightening amount of times when random users try to co-opt a template convenience into a requirement. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 16:15, January 20, 2024 (EST)
- Looking at the revision history of MarioWiki:Citations, it seems a format had already been imposed by the time of that proposal. I still don't see how a template would've been such a bad idea. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 05:08, January 21, 2024 (EST)
- I don't even think it is a bad idea on its own, it's just that the templates being proposed here are copy-pasted from Wikipedia, rather than being based on the sufficient citation standards we already have. To be fair, we don't yet have a standard (in the rules) for in-game and film quotes, but if there was ever going to be one, this is certainly not it. DrippingYellow (talk) 13:43, January 21, 2024 (EST)
The idea of making citations of all kinds more streamlined and standardized has actually been on my mind for a while now, but I haven't made a proposal yet because I don't know exactly how to go about it. Like I said in my reasoning for opposing this proposal, some citation formats are just too complicated for most users to bother following them, which is why finding the right format for a citation can make all the difference towards that format being agreed upon collectively as an improvement; that's why this proposal failed and this one unanimously succeeded. 
ThePowerPlayer 20:52, January 21, 2024 (EST)
So, why this proposal? Citations should follow a certain standard, which I believe is illustrated in MarioWiki:Citations ("What to put as references") but perhaps not clearly, due to information on how citations should be formatted just mushed in a paragraph with no citation templates to work off, only examples. That being said, the proposal aims to change the citation style for quotes, referencing a talk page proposal for a deleted template, see Template talk:Ref quote; why was this deleted? Some people interpreted this as a proposal to create a general citation template, which I don't believe so since this proposal seems to strictly concern with quotations from fictional characters.
If so, the comment by Ahemtoday is a reason to oppose: the stuff we'll be citing will have its own article, so things like listing the publisher and developer of a video game just to cite it doesn't feel like it makes sense to me." That being said, I think it's appropriate to cite some direct gameplay videos for evidence of claims in the articles. I've done this for Metal Mario's page, particularly the part where Wario yells when falling underwater; it's for my own sake in properly recalling something trivial (but amusing) and possible to forget later on. But this proposal aims to cite video games themselves for quotes, which I don't even think it's the best way to do it versus a time stamped video.
If not, questions remain. What's the issue with the old system? Are we currently not even citing quotes? How are we doing citations for quotes currently? What's even the scope of this proposal, is it fictional characters or quotations from publications? What examples are there to show issues of the current citation method that led to the creation of this proposal? What do the changes even look like; what's "before" and "after"? Why should we match Wikipedia's system? It's not clear from this proposal. I've re-read the thing a few times carefully. I'm still left with confusion. 
It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 16:57, January 22, 2024 (EST)
