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| #{{User|Walkazo}} - It would be a waste to wholesale dismiss the Daijitan as a resource and potentially move countless pages away from legitimate names to pure conjecture (and scrap dozens if not hundreds more {{tem|foreignname}} entries) just because it's been wrong a few times. We're no better than them when it comes to making periodic mistakes, rampant eschewing of citations, and the occasional rogue user just making stuff up: we might as well tell people to ignore us as a resource too. It would be better to simply be transparent by citing them whenever we use them and marking those citations as less-than-ideal with [[Wikipedia:Template:Better source|a "better source" template]], the same as we would with Wikipedia references or any other iffy, yet better-than-nothing references. The anti-Japanese arguments are meaningless: we will ''always'' have Japanese and other non-English names to deal with, mixed in with the made-up English names (and/or in the foreignname templates). Redirects get around the macrons without any grief for searchers or editors who don't want to bother copy and paste a macron from somewhere else for the link, and [[MarioWiki:Japanese#Subjects_with_Japanese_names|policy actually says redirects ''should'' be created for that reason]]: any macron-bearing pagename ''without'' a redirect is an oversight. | | #{{User|Walkazo}} - It would be a waste to wholesale dismiss the Daijitan as a resource and potentially move countless pages away from legitimate names to pure conjecture (and scrap dozens if not hundreds more {{tem|foreignname}} entries) just because it's been wrong a few times. We're no better than them when it comes to making periodic mistakes, rampant eschewing of citations, and the occasional rogue user just making stuff up: we might as well tell people to ignore us as a resource too. It would be better to simply be transparent by citing them whenever we use them and marking those citations as less-than-ideal with [[Wikipedia:Template:Better source|a "better source" template]], the same as we would with Wikipedia references or any other iffy, yet better-than-nothing references. The anti-Japanese arguments are meaningless: we will ''always'' have Japanese and other non-English names to deal with, mixed in with the made-up English names (and/or in the foreignname templates). Redirects get around the macrons without any grief for searchers or editors who don't want to bother copy and paste a macron from somewhere else for the link, and [[MarioWiki:Japanese#Subjects_with_Japanese_names|policy actually says redirects ''should'' be created for that reason]]: any macron-bearing pagename ''without'' a redirect is an oversight. |
| #{{User|Binarystep}} Changing my vote, per Walkazo. Removing names that are ''possibly'' correct and replacing them with names we made up is a horrible idea. | | #{{User|Binarystep}} Changing my vote, per Walkazo. Removing names that are ''possibly'' correct and replacing them with names we made up is a horrible idea. |
| | #{{User|1337star}} Per all. |
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| ====Comments==== | | ====Comments==== |
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| Just noting here that I retracted my vote in favor of removing it. I agree with Walkazo's argument enough to change my mind, but not enough to fully cast a vote either direction now, as it hinges on a type of template that we currently (to my knowledge, at least) do not employ. -- [[User:1337star|1337star]] <sup>([[User talk:1337star|Mailbox SP]])</sup> 14:51, 11 May 2015 (EDT) | | Just noting here that I retracted my vote in favor of removing it. I agree with Walkazo's argument enough to change my mind, but not enough to fully cast a vote either direction now, as it hinges on a type of template that we currently (to my knowledge, at least) do not employ. -- [[User:1337star|1337star]] <sup>([[User talk:1337star|Mailbox SP]])</sup> 14:51, 11 May 2015 (EDT) |
| :[[Template:Bettersource|The template exists now]], for the record. - {{User|Walkazo}} | | :[[Template:Bettersource|The template exists now]], for the record. - {{User|Walkazo}} |
| | |
| | ::Neat. -- [[User:1337star|1337star]] <sup>([[User talk:1337star|Mailbox SP]])</sup> 16:28, 13 May 2015 (EDT) |
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Current time:
Thursday, May 23rd, 22:30 GMT
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Proposals can be new features (such as an extension), the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
- "Vote" periods last for one week.
- Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so (not, e.g., "I like this idea!").
- All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
- For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.
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A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code {{User|User name}}.
How to
Rules
- If users have an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with the other users, who will then vote about whether or not they think the idea should be used. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.
- Only registered, autoconfirmed users can create, comment in, or vote on proposals and talk page proposals. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
- Proposals end at the end of the day (23:59) one week after voting starts, except for writing guidelines and talk page proposals, which run for two weeks (all times GMT).
- For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is one week later on Monday, August 8, at 23:59 GMT.
- Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
- Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the administrators.
- Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
- If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(banned)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
- No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
- Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
- All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week. Proposals with more than two options must also be extended another week if any single option does not have a majority support: i.e. more than half of the total number of voters must appear in a single voting option, rather than one option simply having more votes than the other options.
- If a proposal with only two voting options has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail with a margin of at least three votes, otherwise the deadline will be extended for another week as if no majority was reached at all.
- Proposals can only be extended up to three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, the proposal fails and can only be re-proposed after four weeks, at the earliest.
- All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
- If the administrators deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
- Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation (six days for talk page proposals). However, proposers can request that their proposal be deleted by an administrator at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
- Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
- Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Users can only be promoted and demoted by the will of the administration.
- No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
- Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.
Basic proposal and support/oppose format
This is an example of what your proposal must look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but what each voting section is supporting must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary.
===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]
'''Proposer''': {{User|[enter your username here]}}<br>
'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 7 days after the proposal was created (14 for writing guidelines and talk page proposals), at 23:59 GMT, in the format: "May 23, 2024, 23:59 GMT"]
====Support====
#{{User|[enter your username here]}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]
====Oppose====
====Comments====
Users will now be able to vote on your proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.
To support, or oppose, just insert "#{{User|[add your username here]}}" at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can just say "Per my proposal".
Talk page proposals
All proposals dealing with a single article or a specific group of articles are held on the talk page of one of the articles in question. Proposals dealing with massive amounts of splits, merges or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.
- For a list of all settled talk page proposals, see MarioWiki:Proposals/TPP archive and Category:Settled talk page proposals.
Rules
- All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPPDiscuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place {{TPP}} under the section's header, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{SettledTPP}}.
- All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How to" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3 and 4 as follows:
- Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one (all times GMT).
- For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, it ends two weeks later on Monday, August 15, 2011, at 23:59 GMT.
- The talk page proposal must pertain to the article it is posted on.
- When a talk page proposal passes, it should be removed from this list and included in the list under the "Unimplemented proposals" section until the proposed changes have been enacted.
List of ongoing talk page proposals
- Delete Memory Card (discuss) Deadline: May 23, 2024, 23:59 GMT
- In Template:Species infobox, expand "Relatives" guidelines to include variant-type relationships with significant differences between species (discuss) Deadline:
May 12, 2024, 23:59 GMT Extended to May 19, 2024, 23:59 GMT Extended to May 26, 2024, 23:59 GMT
- Add a Composers Subsection to Template:Themes (discuss) Deadline: May 28, 2024, 23:59 GMT
- Include Rainbow Coaster & Rainbow Downhill back in the Rainbow Road article (discuss) Deadline: May 28, 2024, 23:59 GMT
- Split the contents of the blimp page (discuss) Deadline: May 28, 2024, 23:59 GMT
- Create a Rewrite-remove template (discuss) Deadline: May 30, 2024, 23:59 GMT
- Decide whether to redesign the Main Page (discuss) Deadline: June 1, 2024, 23:59 GMT
- Consider Spike Top derived from both Buzzy Beetles and Spinies (discuss) Deadline: June 4, 2024, 23:59 GMT
- Merge Iron Cleft with Armored Harriers (discuss) Deadline: June 6, 2024, 23:59 GMT
Unimplemented proposals
Proposals
- ^Note: This has yet to be done with with several non–Super Mario fighters who still have their own page; namely, Banjo, Fox, Inkling, Isabelle, Kirby, Link, Mega Man, Pac-Man, R.O.B., Sonic, and Villager.
Talk page proposals
List of Talk Page Proposals
- Separate Wii U audio files from the ones on the GBA (Discuss) Passed
- Separate the Nintendo eShop paragraph from the 3DS and Wii U pages (Discuss) Passed
- Separate the Mario Bros. stage from the Smash Bros. stage of the same name (Discuss) Passed.
- Move Fire Chomp Super Mario 64 DS info over to Kuromame page or Merge the articles. (Discuss) Deadline:
May 1, 2015, 23:59 GMT Extended: May 8, 2015, 23:59 GMT Extended: May 15, 2015 (GMT)
- Split the Paper Mario boos from Big Boo into a separate article. (Discuss) Deadline: May 16, 2015, 23:59 GMT
- Merge Parabuzzy with Para-Beetle. (Discuss) Deadline: May 19, 2015, 23:59 GMT
- Move Swooper to Swoop. (Discuss) Deadline: May 22, 2015, 23:59 GMT
- Merge Fried Shroom with Shroom Fry. (Discuss) Deadline: May 24, 2015, 23:59 GMT
- Merge Piranha Plant (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door) with normal Piranha Plant (Discuss) Deadline: May 26, 2015, 23:59 GMT
Writing Guidelines
None at the moment.
New features
None at the moment.
Removals
None at the moment.
Changes
None at the moment.
Miscellaneous
Stop Using the "Super Mario Daijiten" as a Source
Let me preface this by saying that the "Super Mario Daijiten (Big Dictionary)" has proved to be correct on some other occasions in the past. However, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
So, what is this "Big Dictionary"? To put it simply, it is us, but in Japanese: it's a compilation of everything in the Mario series (and the Donkey Kong, Yoshi, and Wario series) with some information about them. Naturally, this includes all of those obscure enemies from the older platformers, like Scubi, Bībī, Sutāzu, and many more, though these names were either taken from or changed to ones from the Daijiten. One immediate problem is noticeable: Japanese names are hard to search for. Names taken from Japanese sources are (supposed to be) written out not with a translation, but with the romanization, avoiding the problem of subjective translations. This also includes any special characters with macrons above them, and this results in links being difficult to use with them, for the simple reason that a very large portion of readers wouldn't be able to type these letters, and the wiki isn't able to recognize substitute letters, so "Sutazu" would not work as a link or a search term for "Sutāzu", and it's a tedious process to get to the article of relevance. There's also the point of English and Japanese names looking rather messy side-by-side, though that's mostly personal preference. Of course, these points are completely ignored if they're the only official names that we can find, and therein lies the problem.
As mentioned above, the site is basically us with a different language, and that includes the fact that it is a fan site, subject to all of the follies that editors can employ. If it doesn't explicitly display that the name is from an official source, listed here, it cannot be used since it could easily just be a made-up name. Even if other similar sites share the name with the Daijiten, if they don't have an official source, it doesn't count: they could have easily taken the name from each other, validating the name by virtue of lazy editing. Even besides that, however, there's no reason for all of the names for a certain game to be correct if a few of them turn out to be correct. For example, I've picked up the Prima guide for Yoshi's Island DS, and it turns out that most of the enemies from that game (on this wiki, at least) take their names from this guide - emphasis on most. Scorchit, originally "Zeus Guy", and Toober Guy, originally "Tube Guy", went under different names between the guide and the wiki, but since some of the other names were backed up with "is good is from book", all of them were thought to come from the book. This is faulty logic and using such a broad generalization really can't be healthy for the wiki.
While I understand that some of the conjectural names weren't very descriptive (Dōryī, for example, was "Plant"), I'd rather have a million "Birds" and "Crabs" than a name that is not only hard to link to and search for, but a name that has a good chance of being just as conjectural as the other names. Even for a site that's had a good track record, I feel like allowing the site to be used for all names is just opening the floodgates for name-related debacles, and I'd rather avoid that. Note: this proposal, if it succeeds, would involve removing all names that are currently "sourced" with the Daijiten, as well as renaming articles with those names to English variants.
Proposer: Time Turner (talk)
Deadline: May 14, 2015, 23:59 GMT
Remove it
- Time Turner (talk) Per my proposal.
- Burningdragon25 (talk) Per TT and by the way, I'll go with him on this case!
Do not remove it
- Walkazo (talk) - It would be a waste to wholesale dismiss the Daijitan as a resource and potentially move countless pages away from legitimate names to pure conjecture (and scrap dozens if not hundreds more {{foreignname}} entries) just because it's been wrong a few times. We're no better than them when it comes to making periodic mistakes, rampant eschewing of citations, and the occasional rogue user just making stuff up: we might as well tell people to ignore us as a resource too. It would be better to simply be transparent by citing them whenever we use them and marking those citations as less-than-ideal with a "better source" template, the same as we would with Wikipedia references or any other iffy, yet better-than-nothing references. The anti-Japanese arguments are meaningless: we will always have Japanese and other non-English names to deal with, mixed in with the made-up English names (and/or in the foreignname templates). Redirects get around the macrons without any grief for searchers or editors who don't want to bother copy and paste a macron from somewhere else for the link, and policy actually says redirects should be created for that reason: any macron-bearing pagename without a redirect is an oversight.
- Binarystep (talk) Changing my vote, per Walkazo. Removing names that are possibly correct and replacing them with names we made up is a horrible idea.
- 1337star (talk) Per all.
As passing this proposal would mark many of our articles as conjectural titles, one strategy we could employ is to see the references of each page on the Super Mario Daijiten (if there is one). That way, we can see still use the Daijiten to indirectly get official information, which we can in turn cite. Andymii (talk) 16:44, 10 May 2015 (EDT)
- I made the assumption that, if the Daijiten used sources, we would have used them in the first place instead of citing the Daijiten. It's a fair point to make, though, but I'm not exactly fluent enough to navigate the site, and some online translation probably won't help. Would you happen to be able to go through the site? Hello, I'm Time Turner.
Unfortunately, no. I guess it is up to our Japanese-fluent users to help us out now. However, there is a function though on Google Translate that translate whole entire websites, so that might be useful in getting the general idea, maybe even enough so we can get official information accurately without knowing much of the language. Andymii (talk) 09:50, 11 May 2015 (EDT)
Just noting here that I retracted my vote in favor of removing it. I agree with Walkazo's argument enough to change my mind, but not enough to fully cast a vote either direction now, as it hinges on a type of template that we currently (to my knowledge, at least) do not employ. -- 1337star (Mailbox SP) 14:51, 11 May 2015 (EDT)
- The template exists now, for the record. - Walkazo (talk)
- Neat. -- 1337star (Mailbox SP) 16:28, 13 May 2015 (EDT)
