Super Mario Wiki

MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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==New features==
==New features==
===Expand ''Rhythm Heaven'' series coverage===
''None at the moment.''
The [[WarioWare (series)|''WarioWare'']] and [[rhythmheaven:Rhythm Heaven (series)|''Rhythm Heaven'']] series cross over with each other very frequently for various reasons. As such, this wiki currently has some [[:Category:Rhythm Heaven series|limited coverage of ''Rhythm Heaven'' games]]. I believe that this coverage should be slightly expanded. While our fellow NIWA member Rhythm Heaven Wiki is doing a great job documenting these things and linking to it when relevant works, it would still be nice for the Super Mario Wiki to have ''all'' the ''WarioWare''-related ''Rhythm Heaven'' content covered within its scope.


The new articles I suggest should be created are:
==Removals==
* [[rhythmheaven:Rhythm Heaven Fever|''Rhythm Heaven Fever'']] (contains the game [[rhythmheaven:Kung Fu Ball|Kung Fu Ball]], which features [[Young Cricket]] and was the first appearance of [[Cicada]], who has since appeared in more ''WarioWare'' games than ''Rhythm Heaven'' games)
''None at the moment.''
* [[rhythmheaven:Kung Fu Ball|Kung Fu Ball]] (stars [[Young Cricket]] and [[Cicada]])
* [[rhythmheaven:Tap Trial|Tap Trial]] (a version starring [[Ashley]] appears in ''[[Rhythm Heaven Megamix]]'')
* [[rhythmheaven:Munchy Monk|Munchy Monk]] (a version starring [[Master Mantis]] appears in ''[[Rhythm Heaven Megamix]]'')
* [[rhythmheaven:Fillbots 2|Fillbots 2]] (a version starring [[Mike]] appears in ''[[Rhythm Heaven Megamix]]'')
* [[rhythmheaven:Super Samurai Slice|Super Samurai Slice]] (a version starring [[18-Volt]] appears in ''[[Rhythm Heaven Megamix]]'')
* [[rhythmheaven:The Clappy Trio 2|The Clappy Trio 2]] (a version starring [[Jimmy T]] appears in ''[[Rhythm Heaven Megamix]]'')
* [[rhythmheaven:Freeze Frame|Freeze Frame (Rhythm Game)]] (a version starring [[Dr. Crygor]] appears in ''[[Rhythm Heaven Megamix]]'')
* [[rhythmheaven:Catchy Tune 2|Catchy Tune 2]] (a version starring [[Kat & Ana]] appears in ''[[Rhythm Heaven Megamix]]'')
* [[rhythmheaven:Ringside|Ringside]] (a version starring [[Wario-Man]] appears in ''[[Rhythm Heaven Megamix]]'')


To be clear, these articles would ''only'' cover these subjects to the extent that they are relevant to the ''WarioWare'' series, much like how the ''[[Rhythm Heaven Megamix]]'' article is written. This is ''not'' a proposal to annex the Rhythm Heaven Wiki's coverage into our own.
==Changes==
===Move ''Super Smash Bros.'' information for crossover characters into the list articles and delete their ''Super Smash Bros.'' profiles===
This proposal concerns ''Super Smash Bros.'' information of certain characters listed in [[Template:Crossover characters|Crossover characters]]. It makes it harder to see the actual ''Super Mario'' content on said articles, like how the [[Isabelle]] page largely concerns her appearances in ''Super Smash Bros.'' while the actual ''Super Mario'' appearances in ''Mario Kart 8'' and ''Super Mario Maker'' are all the way below. In the case of [[Villager]], it starts off by showing the ''WarioWare'' appearances but then has this huge chunk of ''Super Smash Bros.'' information in between that and the appearances in ''Mario Kart 8'' and ''Super Mario Maker''.


'''Proposer''': {{User|JanMisali}}<br>
Besides, the List of ''Super Smash Bros.'' fighters pages feel kind of awkward that certain crossover characters do not have their information listed there with other non-''Super Mario'' characters, so this proposal aims to rectify that.
'''Deadline''': April 29, 2024, 23:59 GMT
====Create articles for ''Rhythm Heaven Fever'' and all Rhythm Games that feature playable ''WarioWare'' characters====
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per my proposal.
====Only create an article for ''Rhythm Heaven Fever''====
#{{User|Hewer}} While we do have articles for the Mario minigames in [[Nintendo Land]], these ones are, from what I can tell, less substantial and reskins of un-Mario-related minigames, so I feel like giving articles to every one is a bit overkill and covering them like we currently do on the [[Rhythm Heaven Megamix]] page is neater and gives more purpose to those pages. Having a Rhythm Heaven Fever article but covering the main thing connecting it to Mario on a separate page would be like if we split the Super Mario Mash-up from the [[Minecraft]] page. That said, giving Rhythm Heaven Fever guest appearance status seems reasonable.
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Secondary choice
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} This makes the most sense to us. While the Rhythm Game articles are a tad overkill (it'd be like making a <s>Spleef</s> "Tumble" article because of Minecraft's coverage on the wiki), given ''Rhythm Heaven Fever'' is retroactively the debut of [[Cicada]], it seems only fair to at least give that game an article as a guest appearance. After all, if ''[[Art Style: PiCTOBiTS]]'' <small>(our beloved)</small> can have an article as a token guest appearance because you can use Mario items, why can't Rhythm Heaven Fever when it has the debut of a ''WarioWare'' character?
#{{User|JanMisali}} Second choice, per Hewer and Camwoodstock.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all.
#{{User|MegaBowser64}} Per FanOfYoshi.
#{{User|BMfan08}} Hesitant as I was at first, I think this option is fair enough. Per all.
#{{User|Arend}} After thinking about it, Cicada's debut in Fever COULD be likened to the whole ''[[Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic]]'' thing... somewhat, at least.
#{{User|EvieMaybe}} per all


====Only create articles for the eight Rhythm Games in ''Megamix'' that have ''WarioWare'' versions====
The fighters on the list pages do not have their profiles, and I don't see why the crossover characters should have them but not the fighters already in the list pages, so if this proposal passes, all of that will be deleted too. This '''includes''' the Profiles section on '''other crossover pages''' like [[Knuckles]], [[Deku Baba]], [[Zangief]], and so forth, since it would be illogical for them to keep their profiles but not the protagonists of the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series, an inconsistency that's already present. But the status of the ''SSB'' content in the History section of crossover content OTHER THAN fighters in the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series can be for a future proposal.
====Do nothing====
#{{user|Super Mario RPG}} First of all, we have Rhythm Heaven Wiki, which you even mentioned in your proposal. We can still practically find ways to cover all of the ''Super Mario'' content in ''Rhythm Heaven'' without going overboard, otherwise we may find ourselves with a successor to the ''Super Smash Bros.'' coverage issue. Also, when you said in your proposal that you thought it would be "nice," that's vague and based on personal opinion, since one could swap out ''Rhythm Heaven'' for anything (''Bayonetta'', ''Shin Megami Tensei'', ''Terraria'', etc.) Wiki scope should be about practicality, not whether someone thinks something is "nice."
#{{user|Shadow2}} Both games constitute a minor cameo appearance. We absolutely do not need a FULL page about the ENTIRE game of RHF when Young Cricket only appears in one single small mode.


====Comments====
This will affect the following pages, and their ''Super Smash Bros.'' information (excluding profiles) will go into the following articles:
@Super Mario RPG: Obviously "nice" was being used to mean "preferable given the described circumstances", not sure what gave you an impression otherwise. One could not swap out Rhythm Heaven for any other franchise as Bayonetta, Shin Megami Tensei, and Terraria have not had frequent crossovers with the WarioWare series. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 16:18, April 22, 2024 (EDT)


@Hewer: To be fair, there ''is'' precedent for giving ''Mario'' reskins of otherwise unrelated minigames dedicated articles, namely the [[Game & Watch Gallery (series)|''Game & Watch Gallery'' series]]. I understand your point though, it might be overkill to have full coverage of all these minigames when they're already handled on the Rhythm Heaven Wiki. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 17:00, April 22, 2024 (EDT)
*[[Link]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros.]]
*[[Isabelle]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate]]
*[[Villager]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U]]
*[[Kirby]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros.]]
*[[Sonic]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]
*[[Mii]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U]]
*[[R.O.B.]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]
*[[Kirby]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros.]]
*[[Banjo]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate]]
*[[Kazooie]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate]]
*[[Mega Man]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U]]
*[[Pac-Man]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U]]


@Shadow2: We're already doing precisely this for [[Rhythm Heaven Megamix]]. And maybe a few others that I don't remember at the moment. [[User:BMfan08|BMfan08]] ([[User talk:BMfan08|talk]]) 13:22, April 27, 2024 (EDT)
There's also Samus, and there's a proposal to currently split the article, so if that passes, her ''Super Smash Bros.'' information will stay on the [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros.]] page.
:Plus [[Nintendo Badge Arcade]], [[Minecraft]], [[Tetris 99]], [[AR Games]], [[StreetPass Mii Plaza]], [[Nintendo Land]], etc. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 13:46, April 27, 2024 (EDT)


@Shadow2: To clarify, Young Cricket's role in ''Rhythm Heaven Fever'' is not a "minor cameo appearance". Young Cricket's appearance in ''Rhythm Heaven Megamix'' where he briefly shows up in the background in the "Wario... Where?" version of Munchy Monk is a minor cameo. Young Cricket is a ''playable character'' in ''Rhythm Heaven Fever''. ''Rhythm Heaven'' games are music-themed minigame collections, so a character "only" being playable in a minigame does not mean the same thing that it would in a game that ''isn't'' a minigame collection. Furthermore, Kung Fu Ball has had a direct impact on the ''WarioWare'' series, to the extent that a plot point in ''WarioWare: Move It!'' (the reveal of [[Cicada]]) requires the player to be familiar with Young Cricket's role in ''Rhythm Heaven Fever'' in order to have the full context. While I understand not wanting to give each of these minigames full coverage individually, I strongly believe that the game ''Rhythm Heaven Fever'' itself is unquestionably relevant enough to the ''WarioWare'' series (and, by extension, to the ''Super Mario'' franchise) to justify giving it a dedicated article. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 13:39, April 27, 2024 (EDT)
Note: A short summary of the character's role, or any connections to ''Super Mario'', will remain intact, similarly to how [[Mario#History]] has a short summary on Mario throughout his appearance while the main history page on Mario is located at [[History of Mario]].


==Removals==
There are three options: Option 1 will enact all of the changes above, Option 2 will remove only the ''Super Smash Bros.'' profiles from pages on non-''Super Mario'' content, and Option 3 opposes everything in this proposal.
===Remove profiles and certain other content related to the ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia'' from the wiki===
The wiki currently houses a sizeable number of transcriptions of information from the 2015 ''[[Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia]]'', mainly the Japanese edition, in the form of character and enemy profiles. I stated my concern [[Talk:Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia#Copyright infringement|here]] that this practice may infringe Dark Horse/Nintendo's copyright over the product, since, to my knowledge, the book's entire selling point is to inform you on the stuff you find in Mario games through bitesized blurbs. In incorporating these blurbs within its knowledge base, the Mario Wiki, a free resource, is not just impairing the very purpose of the book, but, given that it's still in print, may negatively impact its sales. In fact, that second point is the reason this proposal concerns this book only and not similar publications like ''[[Perfect Edition of the Great Mario Character Encyclopedia]]'', which has long been out of print and has been superseded by the SMB Encyclopedia, making it highly unlikely that some big wig will send Porple a DMCA strike over something like [[Fire (100m)#Perfect Ban Mario Character Daijiten|Fire (100m)'s profile]]. When it comes to the 2015 Encyclopedia, though, that has a reasonable likelihood of happening and it's best the wiki enforces good faith.


On a similar basis, one user who engaged with the topic in the above talk page has also questioned the wiki's need to feature scans of the book's mistakes in its very article. Given the small size of each blurb, the scans are essentially taking away substantial chunks of information in a way that cannot be conceived as demonstrative or transformative under US Fair Use law.
'''Proposer''': {{User|Super Mario RPG}}<br>
'''Deadline''': June 4, 2024, 23:59 GMT


What this proposal aims to do is the following:
====Option 1: Full support====
*remove encyclopedia bios listed on various articles, regardless of their source's language. [[Tryclyde#Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros. bio|Here's an example]]. [[List of Yoshi profiles and statistics#Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.|Here's another]].
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} As proposer.
*delete the scans in the "List of English translation errors and typos not from the Super Mario Wiki" section of the encyclopedia's article, as well as any other scans of the book's contents, '''unless''' said content has been displayed by Nintendo or one of their official distributors for the purpose of promoting the book. To exemplify: [[:File:Encyclopedia Error 20.png|This]], [[:File:Encyclopedia Error 6.png|this]], and [[:File:ESMB page 27.png|this]] image should be deleted if the proposal passes. [[:File:EncyclopediaSMB - Characters pt1.jpg|This]] and [[:File:EncyclopediaSMB - Characters pt2.jpg|this]] one should also be deleted, since the content depicted in these images hasn't been used by Shogakukan, Amazon, or some other official distributor to portray the Japanese edition on their online storefronts. On the other hand, the artwork shown in the article's gallery, such as [[:File:Bowser Jr Coloring Book.png|this one]], '''shouldn't''' be removed unless they depict textual information that infringes copyright.


A few notes:
====Option 2: Trim profiles only====
*Paraphrases of the encyclopedia's information will be allowed under the proposal, so the book's article may continue to describe its mistakes until further notice.
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Secondary
*Small quotes of the book will also be permitted (e.g.: "This text is translated from the Japanese instruction booklet.") if they do not violate this proposal's requirements, albeit it's entirely up to editors to decide how small a quote should be and whether it fits US Fair Use.
*Subject names unique to the encyclopedia are not concerned by this proposal.


'''Proposer''': {{User|Koopa con Carne}}<br>
====Option 3: Oppose====
'''Deadline''': April 30, 2024, 23:59 GMT
#{{User|Axis}} I believe it's unnecessary.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} It makes intuitive sense to just list the ''Super Smash Bros.'' info on the pages of the character when available. (As a side note, the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series has a pretty intimate relationship with the ''Super Mario'' franchise, and I do not think we should be omitting coverage here just because SmashWiki exists. We don't address topics the same way.)
#{{User|Tails777}} If the characters have an article, I see no reason why Smash stuff should be singled out and removed just because it's not Mario related.
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Per all, especially Nintendo101
#{{User|Hewer}} It's standard practice (and also pretty logical) to list any time a subject happens to appear alongside Mario stuff. [[Captain N: The Game Master]] is a good example - it's considered a guest appearance, so it doesn't get full coverage, but we still mention things' appearances there if they happen to be covered on the wiki for some other reason, e.g. [[Slime (Dragon Quest)]]. So why should Smash (where Mario stuff perhaps has a greater role than in Captain N) be the one exception? The proposal tries to argue about organisation and finding information, but I'd say unnecessarily splitting a character's information across multiple pages is the real bad organisation here. If people really can't bear to scroll through some Smash stuff in order to find what they're looking for (which, mind, might be the Smash stuff anyway), they can use the contents links at the top of the article to jump to particular sections no problem. And also, to be frank, I don't really understand what the proposal is talking about regarding "profiles".
#{{User|FanOfRosalina2007}} Per all, especially Hewer's reasoning.
#{{user|MegaBowser64}} Per all of yall. Personally I don't think it's a big deal to leave Smash info on character pages. There isn't much harm done.
#{{User|Sdman213}} Per all.
#{{User|Jazama}} Per all
#{{User|SeanWheeler}} If we move these characters Smash information to the list of Smash characters, we might as well just delete those pages and move all information to the Smash character lists. Those lists already have the Super Mario Maker costumes anyway. But we shouldn't move them to the lists because those lists are cluttered enough as they are.


====Support====
====Comments====
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per proposal.
<s>[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/61#Trim_the_Smash_Bros_trophies_page|This passed proposal]] already establishes that non-Mario trophies should be removed from dedicated character articles. Check out the bolded sentence and the rationale after it:<blockquote>It's simple. I propose to simply trim those trophies list pages to only the Mario/DK/Wario etc. character and cut the rest. '''This includes crossover characters that have pages on the wiki''' - while we may have a Link page because he's in Mario Kart 8, his Smash Bros trophy is about Link the protagonist of his own independent intellectual property and not Link the funny Mario Kart 8 man, and it leads to the bizarre situation of having a listing of Link but not the character his series is named after. Best keep things simple. </blockquote> I believe if option 3 were to win in this proposal, that decision would be overturned.</s> {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 15:06, May 28, 2024 (EDT), edited 15:14, May 28, 2024 (EDT)
#[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) - Book's only 9 years old, this is worrisome.
:Okay, I'll remove that from the scope of the proposal then. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 15:09, May 28, 2024 (EDT)
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all. Having scans as "proof" of mistakes is especially odd, just use the book and page number as a source.
::Wait, hold on, I may be stupid. That simply specifies that the subjects who have pages on the wiki, but do not pertain to the Mario franchise, would be among the trophies trimmed from the trophy pages, but it does not specify that they'd be trimmed from their own pages as well. I confused myself and hopefully I can clear it up following my above comment. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 15:13, May 28, 2024 (EDT)
#{{user|MegaBowser64}} Well, we don't want to get sued for 34 thousand dollars in the Federal Court of Malaysia now, do we? And we probably don't want a DMCA from Dark Horse/Nintendo either. Per all of yall (collectively)
:::I was about to ask about the example of me trimming the profiles from the [[Sonic]] page applies, but now I'm not sure what's going on myself. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 15:25, May 28, 2024 (EDT)
#{{User|FanOfRosalina2007}} Per all. Good move, Koopa con Carne.
::::That was about the lists of all trophies per game, not profile sections for individual subjects. Doesn't look like there's any overlap between these proposals. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 16:14, May 28, 2024 (EDT)
#{{User|Somethingone}} Per proposal (as someone who usually likes images like this), and I personally don't agree with the opposition. I saw plenty of DMCAs from scans like this before.
#{{User|Hooded Pitohui}} Per proposal and per Waluigi Time's reasoning.
#{{User|Okapii}} Per all; nothing we'd be removing has enough value to risk any kind of legal action against the wiki; basically, better safe than sorry.


====Oppose====
I was going to address the opposition by stating that, should this pass, a short summary of each character's ''SSB'' role will remain on the page (See [[Mario#History]] for a similar type of example), but the main information will be on the list of fighters pages. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 16:42, May 28, 2024 (EDT)
#{{User|Axis}} I genuinely don't see how use of limited material from the book on pages relevant to the subject in question is by any means problematic.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per Axis.
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} Until we know what the book itself says, I'm opposing. We can't just go, "Oh, here's this thing from 9 years ago, we can't use images of it because copyright blah blah blah." That would set a precedent that should not get set. Super Mario Pia was brought up in this proposal, as was The Art of Super Mario Odyssey in the linked talkpage, but what about others? I don't want any bad precedents being set.
<strike>#{{User|Pseudo}} Per Axis.</strike> On second thought, choosing to abstain, at least for the time being.


====Comments====
Looks like the truncation of the moves helps a lot with accessibility, like on the Villager page listed above. Pages like [[Fox]] still have excessive profiles, and it seems weird to have those there but not on like the corresponding List of trophies pages. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 17:30, May 29, 2024 (EDT)
@Axis Put it another way: how legal would it be if you cut down a copyrighted movie in 30 second clips and uploaded all of them to your youtube channel? That's exactly what the wiki does, except with a book. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 12:03, April 23, 2024 (EDT)
:Eh, I'd say it makes sense. The list of trophies pages are only meant to be lists of Mario trophies, but we happen to also have pages describing fighters in Smash, so why not list the trophies there where they're relevant? Again I raise you Captain N - the article about it is only about the show and its relevance to Mario, so we don't mention the appearance of Dragon Quest Slimes on that article since it has nothing to do with Mario in that context, but because we happen to have an article about Slimes for another reason, we mention the appearance there. Also, I find the "accessibility" arguments you keep going for a bit strange - there are people who might want to look at Smash information on this wiki, it's not just some burden that we have to avert people from as best as we can. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 07:54, May 30, 2024 (EDT)
:We're going to abstain from this vote (we're moreso concerned about citogenesis than we are copyright, admittedly, and dealing with the former generally implies dealing with the latter by proxy), but uh. We do kind of do ''exactly that'', as policy, for audio. Like, we know that's not what you meant, you meant uploading the ''whole thing'' in segments, but like, we do just outright have max-30 second excerpts for audio as a policy where going over that isn't allowed... ;P {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 12:36, April 23, 2024 (EDT)
:There is a pretty big difference, we're not compiling every bit of information into the same page. The information is scattered across the wiki pages, it's just not comparible. By the way, I'm not opposing to removing book scans from the wiki. Maybe the proposal should have more than 2 options? [[User:Axis|Axis]] ([[User talk:Axis|talk]]) 15:15, April 23, 2024 (EDT)
::Whether or not what the wiki is doing is 1:1 comparable to my example is irrelevant, what's relevant is that both practices are illegal and may net the owner of the site / YT channel a DMCA strike. You can theoretically read the entire SMB Encyclopedia just by using the search function on the wiki to look up each enemy's bio, and there's a chance far larger than zero that someone would be choosing to go that route instead of buying the book if the wiki actually had complete coverage of it, which is where we're headed now. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 16:07, April 23, 2024 (EDT)
:::I'm still not convinced, sorry. [[User:Axis|Axis]] ([[User talk:Axis|talk]]) 00:57, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
::::Yeah, I'm with Axis here. We're not having 100% coverage, just the bios, mistakes/errors/plagarism, and a gallery. Not a FULL ON EVERYTHING IN THE BOOK IS HERE! thing. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 08:38, April 24, 2024 (CST)
:::::"We're not having 100% coverage, just the entirety of the book's contents" {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 11:59, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
::::::The things actually listed on the [[Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia]] article itself (to be as exceedingly unambiguous as possible, we are referring to the article we just linked to, the one where a Ctrl+F for "MIPS" currently yields no results) are literally just the errors/instances of plagiarism. We sat down and counted that, if you don't include any of the pages with overlap (e.g. Page 241 having both an error unique to the book and born out of citogenesis), we only discuss 67 of the book's 256 pages, plus or minus 4 that lack a page number and we thusly cannot verify, or roughly ≈27.5% of all pages.<br>Many of these are only single-sentence aspects of the pages, and much of these come from the citogenesis examples--it is not "the entirety of the book's contents" (the fact we can't actually prove the exact quantity alone should be proof of that). And given the majority of these are about the plagiarism anyways, we don't exactly feel like humoring the idea that we should just kind of remove these acknowledgements that the book copied from us just because the book is still being sold--that's how you get things like newbies randomly moving articles back to their conjectural titles because "the book said so", even though the book only said so because it copied our work in the first place. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 13:08, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::The proposal has nothing to do with what you wrote. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 13:20, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::Admittedly, we misread on the whole removing things outright thing, that one's on us, oops. <s>we're so tired after last week y'all, this aside ''is'' entirely unrelated to the proposal.</s> However, we do feel like it is worth pointing out that the statement that we cover "the entirety of the book's contents" is inaccurate, which given that statement is directly meant to counter-act Axis' own vote, we think that is reasonably related to the proposal. And, as we mentioned earlier, we're far more concerned with the whole "risk of citogenesis courtesy of the book itself having copied various names that were meant to be conjectural" aspect of that article than we are if we should include images or not, hence why we've abstained from voting. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 13:26, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::::The profiles concerned by this proposal are mainly from the Japanese version of the book, which of course didn't use names from the wiki. This proposal is completely unrelated to the English version having taken names from the wiki (as rare as that is for a discussion about this book). {{User:Hewer/sig}} 13:31, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::::...'''We may be stupid''' (as we mentioned, uh, ''we're a little tired from the Everything''. apologies for just kinda barging in and evidently getting tied up in an entirely unrelated article's business... ;P) {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 13:36, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::::I feel like our argument is getting semantic. Perhaps I have my large share of blame for framing the issue in absolute terms, but whether the wiki has 100%, 50%, or 20% of the book's content, the point is that said content is substantial enough as to not make its coverage tenable under copyright or fair use laws, and there are currently no restrictions for users to cover that content here in full. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 13:41, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::::So basically no Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 13:43, April 24, 2024 (CST)
:::::::::::I didn't say ''anything'' of this sort. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 15:57, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::::::""We're not having 100% coverage, just the entirety of the book's contents"". "whether the wiki has 100%, 50%, or 20% of the book's content, the point is that said content is substantial enough as to not make its coverage tenable under copyright or fair use laws, and there are currently no restrictions for users to cover that content here in full." Does that not sound like "no Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia? {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 15:39, April 24, 2024 (CST)
:::::::::::::No? "The wiki shouldn't copy so much from the book" is very different from "it should not contain even a single mention of the book". {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 16:42, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::::::::Yeah, and let a lot of work go to waste. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 15:56, April 24, 2024 (CST)
:::::::::::::::Do you wanna get sued? Including all the bios from that book, which is ''the entirety of said book's contents'', while it is still on the market, is still justifiable grounds for a copyright strike. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:27, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::Entirety? As in "Let's ignore the other stuff in this"? And what does the book itself say? {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 17:07, April 24, 2024 (CST)
:::::::::::::::::Literally what "other stuff" in the book? That's all there is. Little pictures (some of the artwork I ''do'' want us to have), and bios. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:12, April 24, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::::The non-bios. Plus, you didn't answer my other question. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 18:06, April 24, 2024 (CST)
:::::::::::::::::::What "non-bios" do you speak of? Also I could not understand your question. What does the book say on ''what''? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:45, April 25, 2024 (EDT)


Genuine question: why are we thinking about this nearly a decade later? This is one of the reasons why I always made it a point to keep citations to their earliest instance. However, there are still plenty of things that are unique to the book to our knowledge, like the tidbit of MIPS being Peach's pet. What happens to that info if the proposal passes? Not to mention, ''Super Mario Pia'' was released around the same time as ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'' - do those profiles not count because they don't have the same global reach? I think maybe a cutoff date needs to be established. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:52, April 23, 2024 (EDT)
===Merge the name of Mario family wiki===
:The proposal isn't about how the book is cited. The MIPS tidbit and citation can stay; the quote is supplementary, and if it constitutes the entirety of MIPS' description in the book, it can be handily removed with little impact on the subject's coverage and how its info is sourced. I omitted Super Mario Pia out of sheer oversight, admittedly, though given its anniversary nature I'm not sure if it's even sold anymore, and I believe official availability should be our primary cutoff, rather than the publishing date. I'd have Pia handled in another discussion. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 14:11, April 23, 2024 (EDT)
Mariowiki contains content from ''Donkey Kong'' and ''Wario'' series despite Mario did not appears. [[Pauline]] is an intersection between ''Mario'' and ''Donkey Kong'' series, so she can be included in either. As independent games of the Mario family including ''Luigi'' and ''Princess Peach'' released, the name of ''Mariowiki'' will no longer be effective. luigiwiki.com and peachwiki.com also redirected to Mariowiki.
:''Genuine question: why are we thinking about this nearly a decade later?'' I can't speak for the proposer, but in the past week we've had Nintendo issuing a takedown request toward Valve for hosting copyrighted Nintendo assets on Garry's Mod, after 15+ years of seemingly being fine with the stuff. That alone makes this conversation ''very'' relevant. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 16:20, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
::Squiddy that's been proven to be a false-flag perpetrated by trolls. That being said, it's in-character for them. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:43, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
::: [https://twitter.com/garrynewman/status/1783501547361411494?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1783501547361411494%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url= Nope]. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 17:45, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
:::To be honest, if push came to shove, we feel like this'd be a rare instance of a proposal being cancelled and immediately coming into effect (that ''has'' happened before, after all, usually with "move to <X> name" proposals that ultimately didn't have any backlash whatsoever--though it coming into use for this circumstance would be rather extraordinary)... though if Nintendo was suing a wiki about their work, why they would ''only'' target an article about a book is another question we really would rather not think much of the implications on. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 17:05, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
::::Again, it's not about the book's article, it's about the book's contents being disseminated across "profiles" pages. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:44, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
::::Now you've done it, Camwoodstock!! Go to the chalkboard and write "this proposal is not about the article on ''Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia''" 100 times!!! {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 17:58, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
:::::We should've been clearer--we ''know'' it's about the '''''sections on the book that are in other articles' profile sections''''', and '''''NOT strictly just the article on the book and only that article'''''. You really don't need to dogpile us on it at this point. Can we address the thing we actually were trying to talk about in the first place with the whole "our point is asking why Nintendo only sue us over that and not anything else" question? In absolutely zero uncertain terms: We are not comfortable with the repeated teases about our own ambiguous syntax here. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 19:30, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
::::::In that case, it's not ambiguous, you plain and simply said one thing and meant another. Anyways, it's due to it being still in print and the bios in it being the entire point of the book's existence. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:14, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::To play devil's advocate--what about anything else Nintendo's made that's "still in print"? While we know this proposal was only made about removing the mentioned bios and scans, books aren't the only thing that can be "in print". {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 23:51, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::Consider that a lot of uploaded exclusive concept artwork from ''The Art of Super Mario Odyssey'' was removed for the same reason (notably impacting the [[Broodals]] page). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:55, April 26, 2024 (EDT)


==Changes==
Since Mario is from the ''Mushroom Kingdom'', the important thing is that they are the ''Mario family'', so I'd suggest giving them a new name.
===Overhaul titles of generic-named level/course/stage pages===
With the recent release of the [[Nintendo Switch]] remake of ''[[Mario vs. Donkey Kong (Nintendo Switch)|Mario vs. Donkey Kong]]'', we have already seen the introduction of two new worlds - [[Merry Mini-Land]] and [[Slippery Summit]], as well as their plus variants. However, while I was documenting levels for the remake, I have noticed an issue - since these worlds also change the numbering for [[Spooky House]], [[Mystic Forest]], and [[Twilight City]]'s level pages, this causes several concerns for me in regards to naming level articles with generic-named stage numberings in games where worlds are named:
*Right now, the level numberings for the various levels in ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'' are correspondent to the GBA version. If I attempt to move those pages to match the Switch numbering (for example: "[[Level 4-1 (Mario vs. Donkey Kong)]]" (Spooky House 4-1) to "[[Level 5-1 (Mario vs. Donkey Kong)]]" (Spooky House 5-1, Switch version)), this can cause several issues with us cleaning up all the links to other level pages, and is especially the case for links to various Mystic Forest (5-x > 7-x) and Spooky House (4-x > 5-x) pages.
*Related to above, the new [[Merry Mini-Land]] and [[Slippery Summit]] pages have a slightly conjectural variation of the game's title. Take a look at this for example: "[[Level 4-1 (Mario vs. Donkey Kong for Nintendo Switch)]]", aka the first stage of Merry Mini-Land.
**As a reminder: nowhere in any circumstance has the remake been titled "''Mario vs. Donkey Kong for Nintendo Switch''", it is simply titled "''Mario vs. Donkey Kong''". It could be seen as confusing especially as there are some [[reissue]]s of games that are officially titled the same way too (like ''[[Super Mario Maker for Nintendo 3DS]]'').
**I attempted to get around this by initially naming the title of the article as "Level 4-1 (Mario vs. Donkey Kong (Nintendo Switch))", but it caused issues with rendering the title on top of the page.


What I wanted to propose is to '''overhaul the titles of generic-named level/course/stage pages'''. Level articles that fall under this description are:
'''Proposer''': {{User|Windy}}<br>
*Levels with generic numbering identifiers in worlds that are not named in any circumstance (including in-game and supplementary material like ''[[Nintendo Power]]''). Example is [[World 1-1 (Super Mario Bros.)|World 1-1]] in ''[[Super Mario Bros.]]''.
'''Deadline''': June 8, 2024, 23:59 GMT
*Levels with generic numbering identifiers in named worlds. Examples include [[Level 1-1 (Mario vs. Donkey Kong)|Level 1-1 in Mario Toy Company]] (from ''[[Mario vs. Donkey Kong]]''), and [[World 2-3 (Super Mario Bros. 3)|World 2-3 in Desert Land/Desert Hill]] from ''[[Super Mario Bros. 3]]''.
*Levels with names do not count, regardless if the world is named. This is true for various levels in ''[[Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island]]'' ([[Make Eggs, Throw Eggs]]). These article names are kept as is.


Given that there are a lot of generic-named level articles that fall under this jurisdiction, this is a very '''large-scale''' proposal, and may affect most, if not all "x-x" level articles. This will require help from the wiki's higher staff, especially an administrator who can handle several article renames and moves at large. Due to this, please note that the effects of the proposal may not be always guaranteed to be '''immediate''' even if it is already passed, but I hope to get this done with everyone as soon as possible.  
====Option 1: Rename to Mushroomwiki====
====Option 2: Rename to Kinopedia====
#{{User|Windy}} As proposer.


After brainstorming for a while, these are the possible formats we're going to aim for when making level pages, see below.
====Status quo====
====Option 1: "(World/Game Name) - (Level Code)"====
#{{User|Arend}} Current wiki name is fine. It's straight to the point: it's about the ''Super Mario'' franchise, and in marketing for this franchise, characters with their own series such as Wario, Yoshi and DK are often included anyway. Something like "Mushroom Wiki" is not clear at all, and are probably even ''less'' relevant to the Yoshi, DK or Wario series, since none of their series have anything to do with mushrooms. "Kino" is also German for "cinema", so "Kinopedia" works even ''less'' (unless you're trying to say it's a pun on [[Toad|Kinopio]] rather than [[Mushroom|Kinoko]], in which case that's still worse).
This is the new page naming format for levels which is based on the naming format used for WiKirby (note for reference: levels in the ''[[wikirby:Kirby (series)|Kirby]]'' series are called "stages", while worlds are called "levels".) Examples of articles on WiKirby that follow this format are [[wikirby:Cookie Country - Stage 1|Cookie Country - Stage 1]] (Level 1-1 or Stage 1 of Cookie Country in ''[[wikirby:Kirby's Return to Dream Land|Kirby's Return to Dream Land]]''), and [[wikirby:Kirby Tilt 'n' Tumble - Lvl 7-2|Kirby Tilt 'n' Tumble - Lvl 7-2]] in ''[[wikirby:Kirby Tilt 'n' Tumble|Kirby Tilt 'n' Tumble]]''.
#{{User|Pseudo}} The current wiki name is simple, concise, and great for searchability. Changing it would completely torpedo that for very little gain. While separate, the Donkey Kong, Yoshi, and Wario games are closely related to the Mario franchise, and make sense to be covered on the Mario wiki.
#{{User|Hewer}} The name of the whole franchise is Super Mario, a game doesn't necessarily need to feature Mario to be in the franchise. I don't think anyone is confused to see New Super Luigi U on the Super Mario Wiki. Meanwhile, they most certainly would be confused as to what the hell Mushroom Wiki or Kinopedia is even about, those names are significantly more generic and less recognisable and would create immense amounts of confusion, not solve it. This is a disastrous "solution" to a non-existent issue. (also I'm not entirely sure what you meant when you said Pauline "can be included in either" but the idea that Pauline is the main crossover between the Mario and Donkey Kong franchise rather than their shared origins and DK's continued appearances in Mario games is laughable)
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Absolutely not. Per all.
#{{User|Nightwicked Bowser}} Per all, this would be confusing as f**k.
#{{User|Zootalo}} Nah. Per all.
#{{User|Sparks}} Per all.
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - ...why would that be better? It just makes it harder to find. Obtuse names like "JiggyWikki" and "Triforce Wiki" were chosen just because the more obvious "Banjo Wiki" and "Zelda Wiki" were already taken.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per all. "Mushroomwiki" makes us think of a wiki for mushroom foragers, and no offense, but "Kinopedia" make us think of a knockoff of Urban Dictionary--all things considered, we lucked out ''hard'' by having the name "Super Mario Wiki" at "mariowiki.com" ripe for the picking; we really, really shouldn't just throw that all away for something obtuse. We are not Elon Musk.
#{{User|Sdman213}} No. Definitely per all.
#{{user|MegaBowser64}} What the actual hell. Do I even need to make an argument? per all
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} I ''dislike'' this idea! (Per all.)
#{{User|Axis}} Per all.
#{{User|Mario}} I think the wiki should continue using my name.
#{{User|Jazama}} Per all
#{{User|Ahemtoday}} These names, especially Kinopedia, are just as tied to specifically-Mario games, and make the wiki's subject much less obvious.
#{{User|SeanWheeler}} I never heard of Kino. And the Mushroom is the the Smash series symbol for Mario and not Donkey Kong (letters DK), Yoshi (egg) or Wario (letter W). The mushroom isn't that essential to DK, Yoshi or Wario, but Mario is a very important figure to the spinoffs. The first Donkey Kong game is the debut of Mario. The Yoshi series has Baby Mario. And Wario is pretty much Mario with the M turned upside-down and was supposed to be a rival to Mario.
#{{User|Tails777}} [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/April Fool's 2019|Pink Donkey Kong Jr. Wiki, then we'll talk]]. Otherwise, per all.
#{{User|Shadow2}} So your argument is "Mariowiki contains content from Donkey Kong and Wario series despite Mario [doesn't appear in those games]", so the solution is to name it after the Mushroom Kingdom...which ALSO doesn't appear in most Donkey Kong and Wario games? Opposing due to nonsensical.
#{{User|Dive Rocket Launcher}} Per all, this rebrand would be almost as bad as what happened to Twitter.
#{{User|BMfan08}} While everyone else here has already said what I think about this idea, I'd nevertheless like to offer my commentary. Going to the [[Mushroom Kingdom]] page, the only instances of Donkey Kong outside of race courses is mention of the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series (Need I say more?) and that Donkey Kong Island is a "surrounding area". Wario is not even mentioned at all outside of the race courses. And that's not even getting into the [[Mushroom]] article. While not every wiki is named like ours is, more often than not the title is based on the main subject, and that's why I believe that this wiki has been named the Super Mario Wiki for so long.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Per everyone!


This makes it easier to update a level's numbering designation should any circumstances of adding new worlds in-between happen again (like how Merry Mini-Land and Slippery Summit were handled in the Switch version of ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong''). It can also make it easier to identify levels from each other easily without having to look up the name of the world first. This will also ensure moving articles if new worlds are added in remakes are made easier as well. Additionally, this will prevent game name confusion from occurring, specifically my issue with the Merry Mini-Land stages using the identifier "''Mario vs. Donkey Kong for Nintendo Switch''".
====Comments====
The point is the merging of Mario character names. The domain; Luigiwiki, Peachwiki, DKwiki (or donkeykongwiki.com), Wariowiki, Yoshiwiki and Bowserwiki have all been redirected to Mariowiki. [[User:Windy|Windy]] ([[User talk:Windy|talk]]) 10:26, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
:Why would that need done? Especially Peach, who has two major games plus an LCD thing under her... petticoat...? (she doesn't have a belt) And Bowser, who has zilch. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 10:38, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
::All those URLs already redirect to this site, which I think is what Windy's trying to get at for whatever reason. As for what relevance that's supposed to have to the idea of renaming the wiki, I haven't a clue. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 15:09, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
:::Windy already stated as such about the luigiwiki.com and peachwiki.com URLs in the proposal itself, directly after stating the MarioWiki name will no longer be effective (which uh, wouldn't be true given the name of the franchise; for some reason, Windy seems to think this wiki is named after the ''character'' instead of the ''franchise''). I... ''think'' they bring it up to say "oh, we can make mariowiki.com a redirect to the new URL, like the luigiwiki.com and peachwiki.com URLs" (I wouldn't have any idea what ''else'' it could've meant). {{User:Arend/sig}} 16:21, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
:So...where's the issue? What does this have to do with renaming the wiki? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 10:39, June 1, 2024 (EDT)


With this format, this is how it will work:
Let me ask you a question: what is the name of [[Super Mario (franchise)|the ''whole'' franchise this wiki is about, and covers franchises like Yoshi, Donkey Kong and Wario alike]]? It's not some weird merger of names, not something like "Mushroom" or "Kinoko" or even the "Mario family" (which admittedly is a better to name a wiki after than "Mushroom"/"Kinoko"). No, it's ''Super Mario''. "Super Mario Wiki" is still a perfectly fine name for the subjects this wiki is talking about. While this wiki does contain content from the ''Donkey Kong'' and ''Wario'' series despite Mario "did not appears", there's really no need to rename this wiki since Yoshi, DK and Wario are still characters in the franchise that Mario ''is the center of''. And so are Luigi, Peach and Toad: ''all six of these'' are always to be recognized as ''Super Mario'' characters, so even if Mario doesn't appear in some games that these others star in, the current name of our wiki is still effective and relevant. {{User:Arend/sig}} 10:47, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
*For levels that use generic numbering (1-x) and are from a named world, they will be named "(World Name) - X-X". For example, in the Switch version of ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'', we can call Level 5-DK and Level 8-2 as "[[Level 5-DK|Spooky House - Level 5-DK]]" and "[[Level 6-2 (Mario vs. Donkey Kong)|Twilight City - Level 8-2]]".
:For the record, [[Mario Family]] is also a bad name. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 15:09, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
**As a side note - if two worlds from different games happen to share names, the newer game's level page can have the newer game's title in parenthesis. For example, hypothetically speaking, we get two worlds named "MarioWiki Land" in two games. It can go like this "MarioWiki Land - Level 2-2" for Game A, and "MarioWiki Land - Level 2-2 (Game B)" for Game B. To my knowledge, something like this has not occurred in any official games and upcoming content.
**Depending on how the game may call the level code, it can be formatted differently. For example, in ''[[Hotel Mario]]'', levels are named as "Stage #", and Super Mario Wiki refers to their level articles with the title ("Stage # (Hotel Name)"). It can be changed to be something like "[[Stage 1 (Lemmy's High-ate Regency Hotel)|Lemmy's High-ate Regency Hotel - Stage 1]]".
*For levels that use generic numbering and are in '''unnamed''' worlds (eg. ''[[Super Mario Bros.]]''), they will be named "(Game Name) - X-X". For example, take World 1-1 in ''Super Mario Bros.''. This can be named as "[[World 1-1 (Super Mario Bros.)|Super Mario Bros. - World 1-1]]" instead. The "world" designator can be renamed to "Level/Area/Stage/Course" depending on how the game calls it.
**Some of you might be concerned with it conflicting with a certain job name in ''[[Super Mario Maker 2]]'' - "[[Super Mario Bros. W1-1?]]". It shouldn't conflict at all - the format of the title is seemingly close but in the end it's fairly different.
*Redirects can be made based on the original names of the articles. For example, if "[[Level 6-3 (Mario vs. Donkey Kong)]]" is moved to "Twilight City - Level 8-3", the former can be turned into a redirect that leads to the latter new title of the article itself, to make it easier to search for wiki readers who are more used to the old format. Another example is if "[[World 1-2 (Super Mario Bros. 3)]]" is moved to "Grass Land - World 1-2", where typing in "World 1-2 (Super Mario Bros. 3)" still leads to the article with the new name.
*Levels with names are already kept as is. If some level names from two or more games conflict due to them being the same, the name of the game should be placed in parenthesis for the associated articles, while the level of the game that is released first chronologically will keep its name as is (no game title in parenthesis after it.)
*If a case of level codes being updated occurs due to addition of new worlds (eg. Merry Mini-Land and Slippery Summit), the reissue's new level numbering should take priority over the old one.


====Option 2: "(World Name) - (Level Code)" and "(Level Code) (Game Name)"====
Dunno guys, I think Windy's got a point about the second option: Mario's pretty kino. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 15:28, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
This is a variation of the first option which incorporates itself with the old level article naming system to make it more flexible to some situations especially for tackling commonly-searched terms like "World 1-1". This is how it will go:
:But is he the epitome? If we wanna name the wiki after the most Mario adjective, [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/April Fool's 2021|we've got a better option]] - {{User:Hewer/sig}} 15:37, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
::If we're talking about the cream of the crop, Luigi's got two much better contenders. [[File:MP1WarioLuigiDK.gif|150px]] {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 15:55, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
:::[[File:MP3MarioRelaxing.gif]] NO ONE TOPS MARIO. {{User:Mario/sig}} 16:09, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
::::Guys, we're all overlooking the obvious candidate--[[Kinoppe|it's literally 4/7ths of her name]]. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 16:18, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
:::::DID MARIO STUTTER {{User:Mario/sig}} 16:25, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
::::::We could alternatively pick [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Proposals/April Fool's 2021#Who should take the red-capped plumber's position?|any of these names]]. How does [[inkipedia:Marie|Marie]]Wiki sound? {{User:Arend/sig}} 16:28, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
::::::Kinoppe's described as a follower of Dr. Mario's daughter<small> (that was the grammar on the original article we don't get it either)</small>! She was born because of Mario with a PhD! {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 16:32, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::Actually, she's stated to be a follower of Peach and Dr. Mario's daughter. I think that's to say she's Dr. Mario's daughter ''and'' a follower of Peach, instead of a follower of the daughter of Peach and Dr. Mario <small>(Yeah I completely agree that sentence was grammatically confusing)</small> {{User:Arend/sig}} 16:50, June 1, 2024 (EDT)


*Levels that use generic numbering and are from a named world will be named "(World Name) - Level X-X". Ex. [[Level 4-mm (Mario vs. Donkey Kong for Nintendo Switch)]] becomes "Merry Mini-Land - Level 4-mm".
As an aside--so, um, ''do'' mushrooms all appear in the spinoff side-series??? We know there's mushrooms in the original Luigi's Mansion (namely the [[Poison Mushroom]]) and in the WarioWare series (they repeatedly appear in microgames), but like, are there any in the Wario Land games? Are there any in the Donkey Kong games? We aren't exactly familiar with Every Single Mario Video Game Ever Released, but like, it's not like Mario games are even defined by having ''a'' mushroom in them in the first place; ''[[Mario Bros. (game)|both Mario]] [[Mario Bros. (Game & Watch)|Bros. games]]'' lack them, and those are literally named based on the fact that Mario is in them. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 16:18, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
**If two worlds from different games happen to share names, the newer game's level page can have the newer game's title in parenthesis. For example, hypothetically speaking, we get two worlds named "MarioWiki Land" in two games. It can go like this "MarioWiki Land - Level 2-2" for Game A, and "MarioWiki Land - Level 2-2 (Game B)" for Game B. To my knowledge, something like this has not occurred in any official games and upcoming content.
:I already stated in my oppose vote that mushrooms are barely relevant in any of the Yoshi, DK and Wario games. It's really only ''Mario''-specific. {{User:Arend/sig}} 16:28, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
**Depending on how the game may call the level code, it can be formatted differently, whether it would be "Stage X-X", "Area X-X", or even simply "X-X".
::We knew they weren't relevant to them, that's definitely not in question for us. Our question is if Mushrooms made a meaningful appearance in any of them. ;P {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 16:32, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
**For redirects, the original names of the articles may serve as redirects, however this may be handled differently depending on certain circumstances (shifting of world number for various worlds in the ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'' remake, for example).
::"It's really only Mario-specific" [[Shroom (enemy)|Nuh-uh]], I'll have you know this is a real mushroom inspired by the mushrooms that slide on the ground in mario games. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 17:02, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
*Levels that use generic numbering and are from worlds with no names will follow this format: "World X-X ('Game Name')". Examples of such are [[World 1-1 (Super Mario Bros.)]] and [[World 18-1]]. The game name is used to differentiate the level from other games featuring a level with the same name, as per usual.
:::Ah of course, excuse me for forgetting about the true emblems and stars of the DK franchise. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 18:36, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
*Levels with names are already kept as is.
*If a case of level codes being updated occurs due to addition of new worlds (eg. Merry Mini-Land and Slippery Summit), the reissue's new level numbering should take priority over the old one.


I believe that identifying generically-named levels with numbered coding from each other should be made easier, especially if we need to look up information quickly for a friend struggling to find a level or its information. Right now, the current method of using game titles in parentheses makes it hard for such information to be easily looked up, and it has become more of an issue when we tried to fix up the level number coding and the articles for the new levels when documenting the Switch remake of ''[[Mario vs. Donkey Kong (Nintendo Switch)|Mario vs. Donkey Kong]]''. I hope this proposal serves to change this for the foreseeable future.
===Discourage "([Title] for [system])" disambiguation format when "([Title])" alone is sufficient to identify the subject===
These past months, there have been some remakes that share titles with the games they're remaking. This has led to a few new articles with titles ending with "([Title] for [system])", such as [[Scrapbook (Super Mario RPG for Nintendo Switch)|Scrapbook (''Super Mario RPG'' for Nintendo Switch)]] and [[Gold Medal (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door for Nintendo Switch)|Gold Medal (''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door'' for Nintendo Switch)]]. However, this long-winded double-disambiguation format is not always strictly necessary, and both of these example articles fall outside of the specific use case [[MarioWiki:NAME]] recommends using this format in. There isn't a Scrapbook in the original ''Super Mario RPG'', and there isn't a Gold Medal in the original ''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door''. These are not cases where "two different games share the same title but appear on different consoles and the identifier '''needs''' to distinguish between them" (emphasis added).


'''Proposer''': {{User|EleCyon}}<br>
I propose a change to the naming policy to explicitly discourage using this disambiguation format in such cases. If the game title alone is enough to specify the subject, including the system in the article title is unnecessary and awkward. Those details belong in the article itself, not the title.
'''Deadline''': April 29, 2024, 23:59 GMT


====Option 1====
'''Proposer''': {{User|JanMisali}}<br>
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Secondary choice.
'''Deadline''': June 9, 2024, 23:59 GMT


====Option 2====
====Support change====
#{{User|EleCyon}} - First choice, per proposal.
#{{User|JanMisali}} As proposer.
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} - This could help solve some level naming discrepancies.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Erring on this for the time being. We get the counter-arguments, but it's usually clear from the article's body itself that the content is exclusive to a given remake of a video game that happens to hold a similar name, and it's not like we even apply these nametags consistently anyways--if a thing has a more specific name that isn't already shared with something else, like [[Hottest Dog]] or [[Goomboss Battle]], we don't append these "<name> for <console>" tags. As it stands, if you ''need'' the title to clarify it's exclusive to a remake, then something's probably wrong in the article itself.
 
#{{User|Shadow2}} Trim! Trim the excess!
====Keep as is====
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Per all
#{{User|Hewer}} I don't really get why the problem of a few worlds in Mario vs. Donkey Kong getting their numbers changed warrants a massive change to how we name levels that forgoes our usual naming and identifier rules for no apparent reason. There was never a level called "Super Mario Bros. - World 1-1", it's just known as "World 1-1". I'd compare this to the case of Mario Kart tracks: for example, we have [[Wii Rainbow Road]], but [[Rainbow Road (Mario Kart: Double Dash!!)]]. We ''could'' rename the latter "GCN Rainbow Road" to be more neat and consistent, but it's never been officially called that, so we don't. I'd rather use that same logic and stick to official naming instead of enforcing our own version. And I don't see why only newer games should get identifiers for their titles - I feel like having both get identifiers, similar to the current system where identifier-less [[World 1-1]] is a disambiguation, makes more sense.
#{{User|Jdtendo}} Per Hewer, changing our entire level naming system just for disambiguating some MVDK worlds is overkill. However, I could see the merits of using the world name as an identifier specifically for disambiguating worlds 4 and more of MVDK (e.g., [[Level 4-1 (Mario vs. Donkey Kong for Nintendo Switch)|Level 4-1 (Merry Mini-Land)]]) and only in that specific case.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per Hewer. The ''MvDK (Switch)'' situation is overwhelmingly the exception, rather than the norm, so accounting for it on the levels for every single game that doesn't have this problem (so... ''basically every other Mario video game that has level articles'') is extremely overkill.
#{{User|JanMisali}} Per all. The proposal as written would be a lot of work for very little benefit, but implementing this for ''exclusively'' the relevant ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'' stages would make those titles both less cluttered and more descriptive.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} per plexing
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all. (please note that before MB64's vote, my vote was blank)
#{{User|YoYo}} per all.
#{{user|MegaBowser64}} Per FanOfYoshi


====Oppose change====
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - "There isn't a Scrapbook in the original Super Mario RPG, and there isn't a Gold Medal in the original Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door" ...that is precisely ''why'' this is needed, or else it's confusing as to why something that isn't in the actual, original game is identified as though it is.
====Comments====
====Comments====
Personally, I fail to see how this makes it any easier. With longer titles especially, the search dropdown's just gonna get cut off and you'll have a bunch of identical copies of the game title without being able to tell which is which (unless the functionality of it has been updated without me realizing). Also, I disagree with prioritizing remake over original with this. I'm not voting right now because I consider myself too tired to do so reliably, but those are my thoughts right now. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:58, April 22, 2024 (EDT)
{{@|Doc von Schmeltwick}} I disagree. "Gold Medal (''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door'')" is not a name that implies the subject appears in the GameCube game ''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door''; that would be "Gold Medal (''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door'' for Nintendo GameCube)". All the "(''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door'')" identifier suggests is that the subject appears in ''some'' game with that title. The body of the article can specify which game. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 20:12, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
 
:Common sense dictates the game title refers to the original, not the George Lucas'd Special Edition (that verbiage may be cruel, but I'll stand by it). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:26, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
I'll point out that "(''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'' for Nintendo Switch)" as an identifier is supported by [[MarioWiki:Naming]]: "If two different games share the same title but appear on different consoles and the identifier needs to distinguish between them, the game name and console are used in this format: ({game name} for {console}). For example, [[Beach Volleyball (Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games for Wii)|Beach Volleyball (''Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games'' for Wii)]]." And you can tell the difference from something where it's part of the actual title like ''Super Mario Maker for Nintendo 3DS'' thanks to the placement of the italics. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 02:18, April 22, 2024 (EDT)
::Would you recommend moving [[Switch (Donkey Kong)|Switch (''Donkey Kong'')]] to "Switch (''Donkey Kong'' for Game Boy)" then? Or [[Floor (Mario Bros.)|Floor (''Mario Bros.'')]] to "Floor (''Mario Bros.'' for arcade)"? {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 20:33, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
:::[[Floor (Mario Bros.)]] is a bad example; "Floor (Mario Bros. for arcade)" implies that it ''only'' appears in the arcade original, yet it actually appears in ''all'' versions of ''Mario Bros.'', so it being called just "Floor (Mario Bros.)" is actually justified. {{User:Arend/sig}} 20:45, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
::::But it ''doesn't'' appear in [[Mario Bros. (Game & Watch)|the original]]. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 20:46, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
:::::...the ''lesser known'' one, to the point that its identifier is "(Game & Watch)" instead of simply "(game)" that's attached to the arcade version? I feel like if there were floors in the G&W game, such an article is more likely to be called something like "Floor (Mario Bros. for Game & Watch)" simply for how well-known and widespread the arcade version is in comparison. {{User:Arend/sig}} 20:56, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
::::::Therefore, it is not always reasonable to assume that a title without specifying system always refers to "the original". {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 21:02, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::My impression of the (<game> for <system>) identifier is to use it when one feature appears in one version of a title, but not in another version (or is different in another version), and when it's identical in both versions (or multiple versions), just (<game>) may be used as normal. [[Special:Diff/4035332|this revision]] justifies the (<game> for <system>) for consistency with article such as [[100m (Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games for Nintendo 3DS)]] - which would have to have such a name because [[100m (Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games for Wii U)]] also exists. This kind of identifier is also used after [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/63#Rename pages with the full Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars title|this proposal]] has passed in which to opt out the (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) identifier in favor of the shorter (Super Mario RPG) one, since the remake is simply called "Super Mario RPG" and enemies with the (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) identifier clearly appear in both games; with (Super Mario RPG for Nintendo Switch) being used for features that weren't in the SNES original, and presumably using (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) for features that weren't in the Switch remake. {{User:Arend/sig}} 21:20, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::Yes, that does appear to be the current way it's being used. The premise of this proposal is to discourage this in cases where it's not strictly necessary, as it makes the article titles longer and less convenient for little to no benefit. This practice of specifying that a subject is exclusive to a later game isn't used consistently anyway (see [[Switch (Donkey Kong)|Switch (''Donkey Kong'')]]), and as the proposal states it falls outside the use case that [[MarioWiki:NAME]] recommends using this format in. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 09:00, June 4, 2024 (EDT)
:::::That ignores that the arcade one was ''in development'' first, the G&W one just beat it to the release punch on account of being simpler to program and manufacture. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:12, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
::::::Do you have a source for that? If so, you should put that source on the ''Mario Bros.'' (game) article. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 09:21, June 3, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::Considering it's been repeatedly said Miyamoto created Luigi for the arcade game and the G&W games were created without his involvement, it seems pretty self-explanatory. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 10:22, June 3, 2024 (EDT)


Given the problem is exclusively present in the MvDK levels, I feel like it makes more sense to simply use a format like [[Level 4-5 (Mario vs. Donkey Kong)|Spooky House-5]] and [[Level 4-mm (Mario vs. Donkey Kong for Nintendo Switch)|Merry Mini-Land-mm]] for specifically that game and its remake, and leave the other courses and levels alone. This seems at least like an acceptable choice, given that the ''New Super Mario Bros. U'' and ''New Super Luigi U'' courses [[Stone-Eye Zone]] and [[Spike's Tumbling Desert]] are both being alternatively referred to as Layer-Cake Desert-1 in their respective articles; meaning that, if these NSMBU and NSLU courses hadn't gotten exclusive names, the wiki would've most likely went for the Layer-Cake Desert-1 format. {{User:Arend/sig}} 11:19, April 22, 2024 (EDT)
Only tangentially related, but why ''are'' the three [[Gold Medal (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door for Nintendo Switch)|Gold]] [[Gold Medal (Super Paper Mario)|Medal]] [[Gold Medal (Yoshi Topsy-Turvy)|items]] split anyways? Sure, they all function differently, but it seems like a fairly generic concept all things considered, and we don't split articles like [[Apple]]s just because they happen to work differently across games. And then [[Medal]] is ''also'' split up even further, but makes no mention of Gold Medals? {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 20:52, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
:This seems like the best solution to me. Relying solely on parentheses for this leads to, I believe, everything after world 4 needing them because the numbers desync. [[User:Ahemtoday|Ahemtoday]] ([[User talk:Ahemtoday|talk]]) 15:00, April 23, 2024 (EDT)
:Have badges ever been merged with other items? As far as I can tell, basically every badge from the first two games has its own article, even ones that are clearly related to and similar to items in other games ([[Power Plus (badge)]] and [[Power Plus (Super Paper Mario)]] for example). [[File:Modern Rocky Wrench SM-k.png|35px|link=]] [[User:Dive Rocket Launcher|Dive]] [[User talk:Dive Rocket Launcher|Rocket]] [[Special:Contributions/Dive Rocket Launcher|Launcher]] 02:16, June 3, 2024 (EDT)
::This reminds me to back when [[Talk:Cog (obstacle)#Merge Cog (Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble!) and Cog (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door) into this page and move to "Cog"|this failed proposal]] tried to merge [[Cog (Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble!)]] and [[Cog (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)]] to [[Cog (obstacle)]], even though the former two are collectables and the latter one is an obstacle or platform. I had suggested in my oppose vote to merge the former two in a new article "{{Fake link|Cog (item)}}" instead (which I stand by after finding out there's [[Gear Up|a mission]] in ''[[Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon]]'' where gears had to be collected, which would also fit perfectly for a potential "Cog (item)" page), but proposer Super Mario RPG never added an option for such a thing despite many others agreeing that it would be a good idea. {{User:Arend/sig}} 12:30, June 3, 2024 (EDT)


Jdtendo does make a good point, however. Using the world's name in parenthesis for the ''Mario vs. Donkey Kong'' worlds might be a better idea to go than mass renaming all the worlds to match what we're going for in the proposal. I might consider this should the proposal not pass at all, especially as I'm about to start documenting Slippery Summit levels soon. --[[User:EleCyon|EleCyon]] ([[User talk:EleCyon|talk]]) 21:58, April 22, 2024 (EDT)
This might just be the most unanimously opposed proposal in Mario Wiki history. No offense to the proposer or anything, but no matter how good this sounded in their head, it would never work out in real life. [[File:Bowsersm64.png|33px]] [[User:MegaBowser64|MegaBowser64]] ([[User talk:MegaBowser64|talk]]) [[File:BowserNSMBU.png|35px]] 19:36, June 3, 2024 (EDT)
: ??? Did you mean to post this on the above proposal? [[User:Shadow2|Shadow2]] ([[User talk:Shadow2|talk]]) 23:09, June 3, 2024 (EDT)


==Miscellaneous==
==Miscellaneous==
''None at the moment.''
''None at the moment.''

Latest revision as of 09:00, June 4, 2024

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page
Current time:
Tuesday, June 4th, 13:00 GMT
Proposals can be new features (such as an extension), the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • "Vote" periods last for one week.
  • Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so (not, e.g., "I like this idea!").
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code {{User|User name}}.

How to

Rules

  1. If users have an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with the other users, who will then vote about whether or not they think the idea should be used. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.
  2. Only registered, autoconfirmed users can create, comment in, or vote on proposals and talk page proposals. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
  3. Proposals end at the end of the day (23:59) one week after voting starts, except for writing guidelines and talk page proposals, which run for two weeks (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is one week later on Monday, August 8, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  5. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the administrators.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  6. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(banned)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  7. No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
  8. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  9. All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week. Proposals with more than two options must also be extended another week if any single option does not have a majority support: i.e. more than half of the total number of voters must appear in a single voting option, rather than one option simply having more votes than the other options.
  10. If a proposal with only two voting options has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail with a margin of at least three votes, otherwise the deadline will be extended for another week as if no majority was reached at all.
  11. Proposals can only be extended up to three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, the proposal fails and can only be re-proposed after four weeks, at the earliest.
  12. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  13. If the administrators deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
  14. Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation (six days for talk page proposals). However, proposers can request that their proposal be deleted by an administrator at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  15. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  16. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Users can only be promoted and demoted by the will of the administration.
  17. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  18. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal and support/oppose format

This is an example of what your proposal must look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but what each voting section is supporting must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary.

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|[enter your username here]}}<br>
'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 7 days after the proposal was created (14 for writing guidelines and talk page proposals), at 23:59 GMT, in the format: "June 4, 2024, 23:59 GMT"]

====Support====
#{{User|[enter your username here]}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments====

Users will now be able to vote on your proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert "#{{User|[add your username here]}}" at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can just say "Per my proposal".

Talk page proposals

All proposals dealing with a single article or a specific group of articles are held on the talk page of one of the articles in question. Proposals dealing with massive amounts of splits, merges or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

For a list of all settled talk page proposals, see MarioWiki:Proposals/TPP archive and Category:Settled talk page proposals.

Rules

  1. All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPP discuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place {{TPP}} under the section's header, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{settled TPP}}.
  2. All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How to" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3 and 4 as follows:
  3. Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, it ends two weeks later on Monday, August 15, 2011, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. The talk page proposal must pertain to the article it is posted on.
  5. When a talk page proposal passes, it should be removed from this list and included in the list under the "Unimplemented proposals" section until the proposed changes have been enacted.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Split Mario Kart Tour character variants into list articles, Tails777 (ended May 4, 2022)
Classify the Just Dance series as a guest appearance, Spectrogram (ended April 27, 2023)
Establish a standard for long course listings in articles for characters/enemies/items/etc., Koopa con Carne (ended June 8, 2023)
Add tabbers to race/battle course articles, GuntherBB (ended November 18, 2023)
Remove elemental creatures categories from various Super Mario RPG enemies, Swallow (ended January 11, 2024)
Merge Super Mario Bros. (film) subjects with their game counterparts, JanMisali (ended April 18, 2024)
Remove profiles and certain other content related to the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia from the wiki, Koopa con Carne (ended April 30, 2024)
Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Consider "humorous" and other related terms as frequently misused in MarioWiki:Good writing, DrippingYellow (ended May 28, 2024)
  • ^Note: Requires action from admins.

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Add product IDs in game infoboxes, Windy (ended March 18, 2023)
Split Special Shot into separate articles by game, Technetium (ended September 30, 2023)
Convert the lists of episode appearances for television series characters into categories, Camwoodstock (ended November 22, 2023)
Split the Jungle Buddies from Animal Friends, DrippingYellow (ended December 22, 2023)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Split Mario's Time Machine (Nintendo Entertainment System), or the Super Nintendo Entertainment version along with both console versions of Mario is Missing!, LinkTheLefty (ended April 11, 2024)
Remove non-Super Mario content from Super Smash Bros. series challenges articles, BMfan08 (ended May 3, 2024)
Split Cheep Blimp (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door) and Zeeppelin from the blimp page, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended May 28, 2024)

Writing guidelines

None at the moment.

New features

None at the moment.

Removals

None at the moment.

Changes

Move Super Smash Bros. information for crossover characters into the list articles and delete their Super Smash Bros. profiles

This proposal concerns Super Smash Bros. information of certain characters listed in Crossover characters. It makes it harder to see the actual Super Mario content on said articles, like how the Isabelle page largely concerns her appearances in Super Smash Bros. while the actual Super Mario appearances in Mario Kart 8 and Super Mario Maker are all the way below. In the case of Villager, it starts off by showing the WarioWare appearances but then has this huge chunk of Super Smash Bros. information in between that and the appearances in Mario Kart 8 and Super Mario Maker.

Besides, the List of Super Smash Bros. fighters pages feel kind of awkward that certain crossover characters do not have their information listed there with other non-Super Mario characters, so this proposal aims to rectify that.

The fighters on the list pages do not have their profiles, and I don't see why the crossover characters should have them but not the fighters already in the list pages, so if this proposal passes, all of that will be deleted too. This includes the Profiles section on other crossover pages like Knuckles, Deku Baba, Zangief, and so forth, since it would be illogical for them to keep their profiles but not the protagonists of the Super Smash Bros. series, an inconsistency that's already present. But the status of the SSB content in the History section of crossover content OTHER THAN fighters in the Super Smash Bros. series can be for a future proposal.

This will affect the following pages, and their Super Smash Bros. information (excluding profiles) will go into the following articles:

There's also Samus, and there's a proposal to currently split the article, so if that passes, her Super Smash Bros. information will stay on the List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. page.

Note: A short summary of the character's role, or any connections to Super Mario, will remain intact, similarly to how Mario#History has a short summary on Mario throughout his appearance while the main history page on Mario is located at History of Mario.

There are three options: Option 1 will enact all of the changes above, Option 2 will remove only the Super Smash Bros. profiles from pages on non-Super Mario content, and Option 3 opposes everything in this proposal.

Proposer: Super Mario RPG (talk)
Deadline: June 4, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Option 1: Full support

  1. Super Mario RPG (talk) As proposer.

Option 2: Trim profiles only

  1. Super Mario RPG (talk) Secondary

Option 3: Oppose

  1. Axis (talk) I believe it's unnecessary.
  2. Nintendo101 (talk) It makes intuitive sense to just list the Super Smash Bros. info on the pages of the character when available. (As a side note, the Super Smash Bros. series has a pretty intimate relationship with the Super Mario franchise, and I do not think we should be omitting coverage here just because SmashWiki exists. We don't address topics the same way.)
  3. Tails777 (talk) If the characters have an article, I see no reason why Smash stuff should be singled out and removed just because it's not Mario related.
  4. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Per all, especially Nintendo101
  5. Hewer (talk) It's standard practice (and also pretty logical) to list any time a subject happens to appear alongside Mario stuff. Captain N: The Game Master is a good example - it's considered a guest appearance, so it doesn't get full coverage, but we still mention things' appearances there if they happen to be covered on the wiki for some other reason, e.g. Slime (Dragon Quest). So why should Smash (where Mario stuff perhaps has a greater role than in Captain N) be the one exception? The proposal tries to argue about organisation and finding information, but I'd say unnecessarily splitting a character's information across multiple pages is the real bad organisation here. If people really can't bear to scroll through some Smash stuff in order to find what they're looking for (which, mind, might be the Smash stuff anyway), they can use the contents links at the top of the article to jump to particular sections no problem. And also, to be frank, I don't really understand what the proposal is talking about regarding "profiles".
  6. FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) Per all, especially Hewer's reasoning.
  7. MegaBowser64 (talk) Per all of yall. Personally I don't think it's a big deal to leave Smash info on character pages. There isn't much harm done.
  8. Sdman213 (talk) Per all.
  9. Jazama (talk) Per all
  10. SeanWheeler (talk) If we move these characters Smash information to the list of Smash characters, we might as well just delete those pages and move all information to the Smash character lists. Those lists already have the Super Mario Maker costumes anyway. But we shouldn't move them to the lists because those lists are cluttered enough as they are.

Comments

This passed proposal already establishes that non-Mario trophies should be removed from dedicated character articles. Check out the bolded sentence and the rationale after it:

It's simple. I propose to simply trim those trophies list pages to only the Mario/DK/Wario etc. character and cut the rest. This includes crossover characters that have pages on the wiki - while we may have a Link page because he's in Mario Kart 8, his Smash Bros trophy is about Link the protagonist of his own independent intellectual property and not Link the funny Mario Kart 8 man, and it leads to the bizarre situation of having a listing of Link but not the character his series is named after. Best keep things simple.

I believe if option 3 were to win in this proposal, that decision would be overturned. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 15:06, May 28, 2024 (EDT), edited 15:14, May 28, 2024 (EDT)

Okay, I'll remove that from the scope of the proposal then. Super Mario RPG (talk) 15:09, May 28, 2024 (EDT)
Wait, hold on, I may be stupid. That simply specifies that the subjects who have pages on the wiki, but do not pertain to the Mario franchise, would be among the trophies trimmed from the trophy pages, but it does not specify that they'd be trimmed from their own pages as well. I confused myself and hopefully I can clear it up following my above comment. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 15:13, May 28, 2024 (EDT)
I was about to ask about the example of me trimming the profiles from the Sonic page applies, but now I'm not sure what's going on myself. Super Mario RPG (talk) 15:25, May 28, 2024 (EDT)
That was about the lists of all trophies per game, not profile sections for individual subjects. Doesn't look like there's any overlap between these proposals. --  Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 16:14, May 28, 2024 (EDT)

I was going to address the opposition by stating that, should this pass, a short summary of each character's SSB role will remain on the page (See Mario#History for a similar type of example), but the main information will be on the list of fighters pages. Super Mario RPG (talk) 16:42, May 28, 2024 (EDT)

Looks like the truncation of the moves helps a lot with accessibility, like on the Villager page listed above. Pages like Fox still have excessive profiles, and it seems weird to have those there but not on like the corresponding List of trophies pages. Super Mario RPG (talk) 17:30, May 29, 2024 (EDT)

Eh, I'd say it makes sense. The list of trophies pages are only meant to be lists of Mario trophies, but we happen to also have pages describing fighters in Smash, so why not list the trophies there where they're relevant? Again I raise you Captain N - the article about it is only about the show and its relevance to Mario, so we don't mention the appearance of Dragon Quest Slimes on that article since it has nothing to do with Mario in that context, but because we happen to have an article about Slimes for another reason, we mention the appearance there. Also, I find the "accessibility" arguments you keep going for a bit strange - there are people who might want to look at Smash information on this wiki, it's not just some burden that we have to avert people from as best as we can. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 07:54, May 30, 2024 (EDT)

Merge the name of Mario family wiki

Mariowiki contains content from Donkey Kong and Wario series despite Mario did not appears. Pauline is an intersection between Mario and Donkey Kong series, so she can be included in either. As independent games of the Mario family including Luigi and Princess Peach released, the name of Mariowiki will no longer be effective. luigiwiki.com and peachwiki.com also redirected to Mariowiki.

Since Mario is from the Mushroom Kingdom, the important thing is that they are the Mario family, so I'd suggest giving them a new name.

Proposer: Windy (talk)
Deadline: June 8, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Option 1: Rename to Mushroomwiki

Option 2: Rename to Kinopedia

  1. Windy (talk) As proposer.

Status quo

  1. Arend (talk) Current wiki name is fine. It's straight to the point: it's about the Super Mario franchise, and in marketing for this franchise, characters with their own series such as Wario, Yoshi and DK are often included anyway. Something like "Mushroom Wiki" is not clear at all, and are probably even less relevant to the Yoshi, DK or Wario series, since none of their series have anything to do with mushrooms. "Kino" is also German for "cinema", so "Kinopedia" works even less (unless you're trying to say it's a pun on Kinopio rather than Kinoko, in which case that's still worse).
  2. Pseudo (talk) The current wiki name is simple, concise, and great for searchability. Changing it would completely torpedo that for very little gain. While separate, the Donkey Kong, Yoshi, and Wario games are closely related to the Mario franchise, and make sense to be covered on the Mario wiki.
  3. Hewer (talk) The name of the whole franchise is Super Mario, a game doesn't necessarily need to feature Mario to be in the franchise. I don't think anyone is confused to see New Super Luigi U on the Super Mario Wiki. Meanwhile, they most certainly would be confused as to what the hell Mushroom Wiki or Kinopedia is even about, those names are significantly more generic and less recognisable and would create immense amounts of confusion, not solve it. This is a disastrous "solution" to a non-existent issue. (also I'm not entirely sure what you meant when you said Pauline "can be included in either" but the idea that Pauline is the main crossover between the Mario and Donkey Kong franchise rather than their shared origins and DK's continued appearances in Mario games is laughable)
  4. Super Mario RPG (talk) Absolutely not. Per all.
  5. Nightwicked Bowser (talk) Per all, this would be confusing as f**k.
  6. Zootalo (talk) Nah. Per all.
  7. Sparks (talk) Per all.
  8. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - ...why would that be better? It just makes it harder to find. Obtuse names like "JiggyWikki" and "Triforce Wiki" were chosen just because the more obvious "Banjo Wiki" and "Zelda Wiki" were already taken.
  9. Camwoodstock (talk) Per all. "Mushroomwiki" makes us think of a wiki for mushroom foragers, and no offense, but "Kinopedia" make us think of a knockoff of Urban Dictionary--all things considered, we lucked out hard by having the name "Super Mario Wiki" at "mariowiki.com" ripe for the picking; we really, really shouldn't just throw that all away for something obtuse. We are not Elon Musk.
  10. Sdman213 (talk) No. Definitely per all.
  11. MegaBowser64 (talk) What the actual hell. Do I even need to make an argument? per all
  12. SolemnStormcloud (talk) I dislike this idea! (Per all.)
  13. Axis (talk) Per all.
  14. Mario (talk) I think the wiki should continue using my name.
  15. Jazama (talk) Per all
  16. Ahemtoday (talk) These names, especially Kinopedia, are just as tied to specifically-Mario games, and make the wiki's subject much less obvious.
  17. SeanWheeler (talk) I never heard of Kino. And the Mushroom is the the Smash series symbol for Mario and not Donkey Kong (letters DK), Yoshi (egg) or Wario (letter W). The mushroom isn't that essential to DK, Yoshi or Wario, but Mario is a very important figure to the spinoffs. The first Donkey Kong game is the debut of Mario. The Yoshi series has Baby Mario. And Wario is pretty much Mario with the M turned upside-down and was supposed to be a rival to Mario.
  18. Tails777 (talk) Pink Donkey Kong Jr. Wiki, then we'll talk. Otherwise, per all.
  19. Shadow2 (talk) So your argument is "Mariowiki contains content from Donkey Kong and Wario series despite Mario [doesn't appear in those games]", so the solution is to name it after the Mushroom Kingdom...which ALSO doesn't appear in most Donkey Kong and Wario games? Opposing due to nonsensical.
  20. Dive Rocket Launcher (talk) Per all, this rebrand would be almost as bad as what happened to Twitter.
  21. BMfan08 (talk) While everyone else here has already said what I think about this idea, I'd nevertheless like to offer my commentary. Going to the Mushroom Kingdom page, the only instances of Donkey Kong outside of race courses is mention of the Mario vs. Donkey Kong series (Need I say more?) and that Donkey Kong Island is a "surrounding area". Wario is not even mentioned at all outside of the race courses. And that's not even getting into the Mushroom article. While not every wiki is named like ours is, more often than not the title is based on the main subject, and that's why I believe that this wiki has been named the Super Mario Wiki for so long.
  22. TheFlameChomp (talk) Per all.
  23. Nintendo101 (talk) Per everyone!

Comments

The point is the merging of Mario character names. The domain; Luigiwiki, Peachwiki, DKwiki (or donkeykongwiki.com), Wariowiki, Yoshiwiki and Bowserwiki have all been redirected to Mariowiki. Windy (talk) 10:26, June 1, 2024 (EDT)

Why would that need done? Especially Peach, who has two major games plus an LCD thing under her... petticoat...? (she doesn't have a belt) And Bowser, who has zilch. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 10:38, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
All those URLs already redirect to this site, which I think is what Windy's trying to get at for whatever reason. As for what relevance that's supposed to have to the idea of renaming the wiki, I haven't a clue. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 15:09, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
Windy already stated as such about the luigiwiki.com and peachwiki.com URLs in the proposal itself, directly after stating the MarioWiki name will no longer be effective (which uh, wouldn't be true given the name of the franchise; for some reason, Windy seems to think this wiki is named after the character instead of the franchise). I... think they bring it up to say "oh, we can make mariowiki.com a redirect to the new URL, like the luigiwiki.com and peachwiki.com URLs" (I wouldn't have any idea what else it could've meant).  rend (talk) (edits) 16:21, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
So...where's the issue? What does this have to do with renaming the wiki? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 10:39, June 1, 2024 (EDT)

Let me ask you a question: what is the name of the whole franchise this wiki is about, and covers franchises like Yoshi, Donkey Kong and Wario alike? It's not some weird merger of names, not something like "Mushroom" or "Kinoko" or even the "Mario family" (which admittedly is a better to name a wiki after than "Mushroom"/"Kinoko"). No, it's Super Mario. "Super Mario Wiki" is still a perfectly fine name for the subjects this wiki is talking about. While this wiki does contain content from the Donkey Kong and Wario series despite Mario "did not appears", there's really no need to rename this wiki since Yoshi, DK and Wario are still characters in the franchise that Mario is the center of. And so are Luigi, Peach and Toad: all six of these are always to be recognized as Super Mario characters, so even if Mario doesn't appear in some games that these others star in, the current name of our wiki is still effective and relevant.  rend (talk) (edits) 10:47, June 1, 2024 (EDT)

For the record, Mario Family is also a bad name. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 15:09, June 1, 2024 (EDT)

Dunno guys, I think Windy's got a point about the second option: Mario's pretty kino. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 15:28, June 1, 2024 (EDT)

But is he the epitome? If we wanna name the wiki after the most Mario adjective, we've got a better option - Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 15:37, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
If we're talking about the cream of the crop, Luigi's got two much better contenders.   -- KOOPA CON CARNE 15:55, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
  NO ONE TOPS MARIO.   It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 16:09, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
Guys, we're all overlooking the obvious candidate--it's literally 4/7ths of her name. ~Camwoodstock (talk) 16:18, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
DID MARIO STUTTER   It's me, Mario! (Talk / Stalk) 16:25, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
We could alternatively pick any of these names. How does MarieWiki sound?  rend (talk) (edits) 16:28, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
Kinoppe's described as a follower of Dr. Mario's daughter (that was the grammar on the original article we don't get it either)! She was born because of Mario with a PhD! ~Camwoodstock (talk) 16:32, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
Actually, she's stated to be a follower of Peach and Dr. Mario's daughter. I think that's to say she's Dr. Mario's daughter and a follower of Peach, instead of a follower of the daughter of Peach and Dr. Mario (Yeah I completely agree that sentence was grammatically confusing)  rend (talk) (edits) 16:50, June 1, 2024 (EDT)

As an aside--so, um, do mushrooms all appear in the spinoff side-series??? We know there's mushrooms in the original Luigi's Mansion (namely the Poison Mushroom) and in the WarioWare series (they repeatedly appear in microgames), but like, are there any in the Wario Land games? Are there any in the Donkey Kong games? We aren't exactly familiar with Every Single Mario Video Game Ever Released, but like, it's not like Mario games are even defined by having a mushroom in them in the first place; both Mario Bros. games lack them, and those are literally named based on the fact that Mario is in them. ~Camwoodstock (talk) 16:18, June 1, 2024 (EDT)

I already stated in my oppose vote that mushrooms are barely relevant in any of the Yoshi, DK and Wario games. It's really only Mario-specific.  rend (talk) (edits) 16:28, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
We knew they weren't relevant to them, that's definitely not in question for us. Our question is if Mushrooms made a meaningful appearance in any of them. ;P ~Camwoodstock (talk) 16:32, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
"It's really only Mario-specific" Nuh-uh, I'll have you know this is a real mushroom inspired by the mushrooms that slide on the ground in mario games. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 17:02, June 1, 2024 (EDT)
Ah of course, excuse me for forgetting about the true emblems and stars of the DK franchise. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 18:36, June 1, 2024 (EDT)

Discourage "([Title] for [system])" disambiguation format when "([Title])" alone is sufficient to identify the subject

These past months, there have been some remakes that share titles with the games they're remaking. This has led to a few new articles with titles ending with "([Title] for [system])", such as Scrapbook (Super Mario RPG for Nintendo Switch) and Gold Medal (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door for Nintendo Switch). However, this long-winded double-disambiguation format is not always strictly necessary, and both of these example articles fall outside of the specific use case MarioWiki:NAME recommends using this format in. There isn't a Scrapbook in the original Super Mario RPG, and there isn't a Gold Medal in the original Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door. These are not cases where "two different games share the same title but appear on different consoles and the identifier needs to distinguish between them" (emphasis added).

I propose a change to the naming policy to explicitly discourage using this disambiguation format in such cases. If the game title alone is enough to specify the subject, including the system in the article title is unnecessary and awkward. Those details belong in the article itself, not the title.

Proposer: JanMisali (talk)
Deadline: June 9, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support change

  1. JanMisali (talk) As proposer.
  2. Camwoodstock (talk) Erring on this for the time being. We get the counter-arguments, but it's usually clear from the article's body itself that the content is exclusive to a given remake of a video game that happens to hold a similar name, and it's not like we even apply these nametags consistently anyways--if a thing has a more specific name that isn't already shared with something else, like Hottest Dog or Goomboss Battle, we don't append these "<name> for <console>" tags. As it stands, if you need the title to clarify it's exclusive to a remake, then something's probably wrong in the article itself.
  3. Shadow2 (talk) Trim! Trim the excess!
  4. Super Mario RPG (talk) Per all

Oppose change

  1. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - "There isn't a Scrapbook in the original Super Mario RPG, and there isn't a Gold Medal in the original Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door" ...that is precisely why this is needed, or else it's confusing as to why something that isn't in the actual, original game is identified as though it is.

Comments

@Doc von Schmeltwick I disagree. "Gold Medal (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)" is not a name that implies the subject appears in the GameCube game Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door; that would be "Gold Medal (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door for Nintendo GameCube)". All the "(Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)" identifier suggests is that the subject appears in some game with that title. The body of the article can specify which game. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 20:12, June 2, 2024 (EDT)

Common sense dictates the game title refers to the original, not the George Lucas'd Special Edition (that verbiage may be cruel, but I'll stand by it). Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 20:26, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
Would you recommend moving Switch (Donkey Kong) to "Switch (Donkey Kong for Game Boy)" then? Or Floor (Mario Bros.) to "Floor (Mario Bros. for arcade)"? jan Misali (talk · contributions) 20:33, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
Floor (Mario Bros.) is a bad example; "Floor (Mario Bros. for arcade)" implies that it only appears in the arcade original, yet it actually appears in all versions of Mario Bros., so it being called just "Floor (Mario Bros.)" is actually justified.  rend (talk) (edits) 20:45, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
But it doesn't appear in the original. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 20:46, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
...the lesser known one, to the point that its identifier is "(Game & Watch)" instead of simply "(game)" that's attached to the arcade version? I feel like if there were floors in the G&W game, such an article is more likely to be called something like "Floor (Mario Bros. for Game & Watch)" simply for how well-known and widespread the arcade version is in comparison.  rend (talk) (edits) 20:56, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
Therefore, it is not always reasonable to assume that a title without specifying system always refers to "the original". jan Misali (talk · contributions) 21:02, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
My impression of the (<game> for <system>) identifier is to use it when one feature appears in one version of a title, but not in another version (or is different in another version), and when it's identical in both versions (or multiple versions), just (<game>) may be used as normal. this revision justifies the (<game> for <system>) for consistency with article such as 100m (Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games for Nintendo 3DS) - which would have to have such a name because 100m (Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games for Wii U) also exists. This kind of identifier is also used after this proposal has passed in which to opt out the (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) identifier in favor of the shorter (Super Mario RPG) one, since the remake is simply called "Super Mario RPG" and enemies with the (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) identifier clearly appear in both games; with (Super Mario RPG for Nintendo Switch) being used for features that weren't in the SNES original, and presumably using (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) for features that weren't in the Switch remake.  rend (talk) (edits) 21:20, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
Yes, that does appear to be the current way it's being used. The premise of this proposal is to discourage this in cases where it's not strictly necessary, as it makes the article titles longer and less convenient for little to no benefit. This practice of specifying that a subject is exclusive to a later game isn't used consistently anyway (see Switch (Donkey Kong)), and as the proposal states it falls outside the use case that MarioWiki:NAME recommends using this format in. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 09:00, June 4, 2024 (EDT)
That ignores that the arcade one was in development first, the G&W one just beat it to the release punch on account of being simpler to program and manufacture. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:12, June 2, 2024 (EDT)
Do you have a source for that? If so, you should put that source on the Mario Bros. (game) article. jan Misali (talk · contributions) 09:21, June 3, 2024 (EDT)
Considering it's been repeatedly said Miyamoto created Luigi for the arcade game and the G&W games were created without his involvement, it seems pretty self-explanatory. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 10:22, June 3, 2024 (EDT)

Only tangentially related, but why are the three Gold Medal items split anyways? Sure, they all function differently, but it seems like a fairly generic concept all things considered, and we don't split articles like Apples just because they happen to work differently across games. And then Medal is also split up even further, but makes no mention of Gold Medals? ~Camwoodstock (talk) 20:52, June 2, 2024 (EDT)

Have badges ever been merged with other items? As far as I can tell, basically every badge from the first two games has its own article, even ones that are clearly related to and similar to items in other games (Power Plus (badge) and Power Plus (Super Paper Mario) for example).   Dive Rocket Launcher 02:16, June 3, 2024 (EDT)
This reminds me to back when this failed proposal tried to merge Cog (Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble!) and Cog (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door) to Cog (obstacle), even though the former two are collectables and the latter one is an obstacle or platform. I had suggested in my oppose vote to merge the former two in a new article "Cog (item)" instead (which I stand by after finding out there's a mission in Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon where gears had to be collected, which would also fit perfectly for a potential "Cog (item)" page), but proposer Super Mario RPG never added an option for such a thing despite many others agreeing that it would be a good idea.  rend (talk) (edits) 12:30, June 3, 2024 (EDT)

This might just be the most unanimously opposed proposal in Mario Wiki history. No offense to the proposer or anything, but no matter how good this sounded in their head, it would never work out in real life.   MegaBowser64 (talk)   19:36, June 3, 2024 (EDT)

??? Did you mean to post this on the above proposal? Shadow2 (talk) 23:09, June 3, 2024 (EDT)

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.

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