MarioWiki:Proposals: Difference between revisions

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===List of talk page proposals===
==Writing guidelines==
{{TPPDiscuss|Split the New Super Mario Bros. info from the [[Big Wiggler]] article|Talk:Big Wiggler#Split Kyodai Hanachan from this article|March 22, 2019, 23:59 GMT}}
===Standardize "History in the Super Mario franchise" headings under certain conditions===
{{TPPDiscuss|Split the ground [[Urchin]]|Talk:Urchin#Split the ground Urchin|March 22, 2019, 23:59 GMT}}
Inspired by [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]]'s [[User talk:Nintendo101/flowerpot|flowerpot]] subpage (from an [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=User:Nintendo101/flowerpot&oldid=4209600 earlier revision], before it had been removed), this proposal aims to standardize the use of '''<nowiki>==History in the Super Mario franchise==</nowiki>''' over '''<nowiki>==History==</nowiki>'''. This will help make it clear to readers what is ''Super Mario'' and what is not while reading articles, and prevent potential disputes once a standard has been set. Please note that this proposal is '''NOT''' about the ''DK'', ''Yoshi'', or ''Wario'' subfranchises.
{{TPPDiscuss|Merge all or certain color Yoshis into [[Yoshi (species)]]|Talk:Yoshi (species)#Merge all or certain color Yoshis into Yoshi .28species.29|March 24, 2019, 23:59 GMT}}
{{TPPDiscuss|Decide how to carry out the renaming of [[Berry]]|Talk:Berry#What to do with this article?|March 30, 2019, 23:59 GMT}}
{{TPPDiscuss|Merge [[Minigame Tent]] with ''[[Mario Party 8]]''|Talk:Minigame Tent#Merge with Mario Party 8|April 2, 2019, 23:59 GMT}}
{{TPPDiscuss|Merge [[Free Play Arcade]] with ''[[Mario Party 8]]''|Talk:Free Play Arcade#Merge with Mario Party 8|April 2, 2019, 23:59 GMT}}
{{TPPDiscuss|Merge [[Crown Showdown]] with ''[[Mario Party 8]]''|Talk:Crown Showdown#Merge with Mario Party 8|April 2, 2019, 23:59 GMT}}
{{TPPDiscuss|Merge [[Flip-Out Frenzy]] with ''[[Mario Party 8]]''|Talk:Flip-Out Frenzy#Merge with Mario Party 8|April 2, 2019, 23:59 GMT}}
{{TPPDiscuss|Merge [[Tic-Tac Drop]] with ''[[Mario Party 8]]''|Talk:Tic-Tac Drop#Merge with Mario Party 8|April 2, 2019, 23:59 GMT}}
{{TPPDiscuss|Merge [[Extras Zone]] with ''[[Mario Party 8]]''|Talk:Extras Zone#Merge with Mario Party 8|April 2, 2019, 23:59 GMT}}


==Unimplemented proposals==
For an article to apply for the '''<nowiki>==History in the Super Mario franchise==</nowiki>''' heading, the article should meet one of the following criteria:
{| class=sortable align=center width=100% cellspacing=0 border=1 cellpadding=3 style="text-align:center; border-collapse:collapse; font-family:Arial;"
|-
!width="3%"|#
!width="65%"|Proposal
!width="18%"|User
!width="14%"|Date
|-
|1
|align=left|[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 41#Create separate articles for DKC series and DKL series boss levels|Create boss level articles for ''Donkey Kong Country'' and ''Donkey Kong Land'' series]]<br>'''Notes:''' The ''DK: King of Swing'' and ''DK: Jungle Climber'' boss levels, while not explicitly covered by this proposal, should receive the same treatment. All ''Donkey Kong Land'' boss levels have been created.
|{{User|Aokage}}
|January 3, 2015
|-
|2
|align=left|[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 45#Create a template for the TTYD badge drop rates|Create a template for the ''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door'' badge drop rates]]
|{{User|Lord Bowser}}
|August 17, 2016
|-
|3
|align=left|[[Category talk:Artifacts#Do something with this category|Clean up Category:Artifacts]]
|{{User|Niiue}}
|August 22, 2017
|-
|4
|align=left|[[Talk:Behemoth#Merge_Behemoth_King_to_Behemoth_or_expand_Behemoth_King_article|Expand the Behemoth King article]]
|{{User|Owencrazyboy9}}
|December 23, 2017
|-
|5
|align=left|[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 50#Give the Wario: Master of Disguise episodes their own pages|Create articles for the ''Wario: Master of Disguise'' episodes]]
|{{User|DKPetey99}}
|January 23, 2018
|-
|6
|align=left|[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 52#Change the way that recurring Mario & Sonic events are handled, round 2|Decide how to cover recurring events in the ''Mario & Sonic'' series]]
|{{User|BBQ Turtle}}
|July 17, 2018
|-
|7
|align=left|[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 52#Split Switch/3DS ports with substantial new content|Allow ports of games with substantial new content to be split from the parent articles]]
|{{User|Waluigi Time}}
|July 23, 2018
|}


==Writing guidelines==
#It is a generic subject (e.g. [[Grape]]s) or something from real life, like a person, with a fictional portrayal in ''Super Mario'' media, such as [[Thomas Jefferson]]. An example of this [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Dinosaur&oldid=4213618 was on the Dinosaur article before being reverted].
===Either restrict usage of or don't use NTSC or PAL on articles===
#It is from the [[Super Mario (franchise)|''Super Mario'' franchise]] '''BUT''' has also appeared in non-''Super Mario'' media, popular examples being the [[Super Smash Bros. (series)|''Super Smash Bros.'' series]] and the ''[[Minecraft]]'' textures. Everything that isn't ''Super Mario'' would be subheadings of '''<nowiki>==History in other games==</nowiki>''', or '''<nowiki>==History in other media==</nowiki>''' if the subject also (or instead) appeared in publications, television shows, etc. not in ''Super Mario'' franchise. An example of this can be seen on the [[History of Luigi]] article.
It's common knowledge to mention regional differences between versions of the same game across the globe and there's nothing wrong with that. You know what is, though? Using the terms "NTSC" and "PAL" when it actually wouldn't really apply that well in the first place.
#Crossover content, including Nintendo products, as they appear in ''Super Mario'' media. Examples can be seen on the [[Game Boy]], [[Link]], and [[Egg Pawn]] pages.


First of all, NTSC and PAL would really only apply for the older (analog) TV sets back in the day. Newer HDTVs don't really use the analog NTSC or PAL video standards anymore, instead going for digital standards like ATSC, ISDB or DTMB, for example.
For the first bullet point, this would help establish that real and generic subjects are not from ''Super Mario'' and makes the History heading less ambiguous. On the [[Dinosaur]] article, for example, are we reading about history of dinosaurs as they exist in real life, up to the point of extinction, or from the ''Super Mario'' franchise? It's the latter. For [[George Washington]], are we reading history about him from the 18th century or as he exists in the ''Super Mario'' franchise? It's also the latter, clearly.


Second of all, NTSC and PAL are mainly used to denote which video standard is used for TVs, not so much for video games (except for rare cases in which the content is exactly the same as the American version, where the only difference is game speed thanks to the PAL format in question).
For the second bullet point, this would help eliminate the popular misconception that ''Super Smash Bros.'' is part of the ''Super Mario'' franchise and help better contextualize ''Super Mario'' as it exists in other media, like sometimes ''Zelda'' or ''Minecraft'', rather than being integral to the same degree as their main appearances in ''Super Mario'' media itself.


Not only that, but several people are still insisting on using NTSC and PAL for certain cases when it really wouldn't make sense (for example, [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Shifty_Shrine&oldid=2613359 this revision of the Shifty Shrine article]). This needs to change.
For the third bullet point, this would eliminate confusion that the history is talking about Nintendo products in general, like when they were produced, the amount of sales generated, etc. and rather mention its appearances within the ''Super Mario'' franchise itself. History on Nintendo products themselves can be found on [[nwiki:|NintendoWiki]]. Similarly, for articles like [[Link]], it helps when the History section specifies it is of Link as he appears in the ''Super Mario'' franchise. Then connections to ''Super Mario'' go under the "History in other media" heading.


I'm proposing to replace either any or most instances of "NTSC" or "PAL" for video game regional differences with "American English" or "British English" whenever mentioned in articles. My reasons as for why are as follows:
To make it short, if this proposal passes, and <nowiki>==History==</nowiki> is changed to <nowiki>==History in the ''Super Mario'' franchise==</nowiki> (and split into a separate <nowiki>==History in other media==</nowiki> in the case of criteria #2) on an article that can be categorized by any of the three numbered bullet points above, '''users will not be allowed to revert it back to the initial <nowiki>==History==</nowiki> heading''', like in the [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Dinosaur&diff=next&oldid=4213618 aforementioned case involving the Dinosaur article].
*The Game Boy, DS and Switch systems are region-free, meaning any game can work on any regional system.
*Most translations into American and British English are basically almost identical (e.g. ''Kirby: Triple Deluxe,'' ''[[Mario Party 8]],'' etc.). There are the rare few (''[[Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U]],'' ''The Legend of Zelda: Tri Force Heroes,'' for example) that are completely different in many ways.
*For the most part, only Europe, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand use the PAL standard for older video game consoles (before the Wii U). Japan, China, Korea, the US, Mexico and Canada use the NTSC standard for those games. Stating the PAL or NTSC version for games whose releases are on newer consoles that use 1080p graphics (Wii U and Switch, currently) or on portable systems (Game Boy, Game Boy Colour, Game Boy Advance, Nintendo DS or Nintendo 3DS) is just inaccurate.


I foresee so many ways this proposal could go in these two weeks so I'm adding multiple options. These options could be the one with the most votes at the end instead of just one, so they are there just in case. If you guys have any suggestions for other options before the end of the first week, then that would be great. The currently available options at the moment are the following:
'''Proposer''': {{User|Super Mario RPG}}<br>
#Replace any instance of NTSC and PAL for video game regional differences with American English and British English, respectively. My preferred choice.
'''Deadline''': May 31, 2024, 23:59 GMT
#Use American English and British English for articles that relate to games for the portable systems and the [[Wii U]] and [[Nintendo Switch]], but use NTSC and PAL for everything else. My second preferred choice.
#Do absolutely nothing. I suggest that '''we do not pick this option under any circumstance.'''


'''Proposer''': {{User|Owencrazyboy9}}<br>
====Support for all three options====
'''Deadline''': "March 29, 2019, 23:59 GMT"
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} I'm for this option.
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} Yes. Also, for the flowerpot thing, I have that saved (with a few tweaks) [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)/Nintendo101's flowerpot old revision saved plus tweaks|here]].


====Option 1: Use the American English and British English terminology wherever possible====
====Apply to only crossover content and real products====
#{{User|Owencrazyboy9}} My preferred option.


====Option 2: Use NTSC or PAL only for articles that relate to the older home consoles (NES, SNES, N64, GCN and Wii) / Use the British or American English terminology for handheld consoles, the Wii U and the Switch====
====Oppose====
#{{User|Owencrazyboy9}} Second preferred option. After all, NTSC and PAL only apply to the analog TV sets.
#{{User|Hewer}} Similar to your [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/65#Standardize a "Cameo appearances" section|previous]] [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/65#Standardize the "Other appearances" scope to include anything that's not a Super Mario game|proposals]] about reorganising history sections, I don't really see what we'd gain from this. For the first and third bullet points, the edit summary that removed it from the [[Dinosaur]] page sums up my thoughts: "This is obvious and unnecessary". Of course we're only going to be covering the subject's history that's within our scope, I don't think anyone's visiting the Dinosaur page seeking a complete history of the Mesozoic Era only to be disappointed when they don't find it. For the second bullet point, I ask the same question as your last attempt to split up non-Mario appearances: why does it not being a Mario game make it worth splitting up? The assertion that they're not "integral to the same degree as their main appearances in Super Mario media itself" feels wrong, games like Smash are major appearances of the Mario characters and are important to their histories, sometimes moreso than appearances in actual Mario games (Smash Melee introducing Yoshi's [[Egg Roll (move)|Egg Roll]], Smash Ultimate being K. Rool's first physical appearance in a decade, etc.). I also again question whether "the popular misconception that Super Smash Bros. is part of the Super Mario franchise" exists or is worth "fixing" in such an indirect way (we already don't consider them Mario games to my knowledge anyway). The [[Game Boy]] example is the only one given where I see some merit in doing this, since we do give some coverage to the actual histories of Nintendo hardware and it could be worth distinguishing the history of their in-universe appearances from that.
#{{User|bwburke94}} NTSC/PAL is valid distinction for older home consoles.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Because this is the <u>Super Mario</u> Wiki, the inherent assumption is that any subject with an article appears in the franchise (including [[Link]] and [[Sonic]]), and that the "History" section would only cover its appearance in the ''Super Mario'' franchise. What else would it be about? If a "history in the Super Mario franchise" was to be implemented anywhere, I feel like it only makes sense for recurring subjects that debuted in the ''Super Mario'' franchise, but make recurring appearances elsewhere (like Chain Chomps, which make some a few appearances in ''Zelda''). But even in that context, I don't know if it would be appropriate. (I also don't agree with the premise that any in-game subject is "generic", regardless of its name or design. The [[grape]]s in ''Yoshi's Story'' are just as derived from the {{wp|grape|real article}} as the [[Sour Bunch]].)
#{{User|Nightwicked Bowser}} Per my edit summary Hewer quoted.
#{{User|FanOfRosalina2007}} Per Nintendo101.
#{{User|Jazama}} Per all
#{{User|Dine2017}} Under criterion #2, common ''Mario'' subjects such as [[Goomba]] would have a long ==History in the Super Mario franchise== and a short ==History in other games/media==, making the two unbalanced. Also per all. (In the case of [[Game Boy]], I think ==Appearances in the Super Mario franchise== is more accurate, cf. [[Nintendo Entertainment System]] and [[Nintendo 64]].)


====Option 3: Do absolutely nothing====
====Comments====
For clarity, when I say "standardize," (not to be confused with "allow," since I don't think there's anything in the rules that explicitly forbids formatting in the aforementioned three cases), it means if a page is formatted that way, others aren't allowed to revert it, since it's the standard for how said articles should look. Also, {{@|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}}, glad to see that flowerpot page. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 14:32, May 17, 2024 (EDT)
:"For clarity, when I say "standardize," (not to be confused with "allow," since I don't think there's anything in the rules that explicitly forbids formatting in the aforementioned three cases), it means if a page is formatted that way, others aren't allowed to revert it, since it's the standard for how said articles should look." Thanks for the clarification! My support will still be there. "Also, {{@|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}}, glad to see that flowerpot page." Thanks! I wanted to keep/expand on it as a subpage of my userpage, b/c I didn't want any edit conflicts. You and {{@|Nintendo101}} are free to edit it if you want. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|talk]]) 14:43, May 17, 2024 (EDT)


====Comments====
Wasn't there a proposal about roughly the same thing not too long ago? You're meant to wait 28 days between proposals on the same thing, so if that's the case, we don't exactly wanna wait for a substantial amount of votes before calling attention to it. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 15:12, May 17, 2024 (EDT)
:No, I think this is different. That one had to do with removing franchise headers, which this one doesn't. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|talk]]) 15:23, May 17, 2024 (EDT)
::Yeah, this one is not about removing headings. It's about modifying "History" to "History in the ''Super Mario'' franchise" in one of three case, and in one case (if there's appearances outside of ''Super Mario''), splitting "History in other games/media"  into its own history heading. See what I did on [[Don Bongo]] as an example. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 15:39, May 17, 2024 (EDT)


From what I've seen, people don't say that they're "NTSC" or "PAL," but say "NTSC region" or "PAL region," which works as a shorthand way of denoting the regional split where differences tend to crop up. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:43, March 14, 2019 (EDT)
Where would appearances in things like Smash and Captain N go in this case? {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 15:40, May 17, 2024 (EDT)
:Uh, interesting. Never knew that until now (either that, or I never really saw that crop up that often). For the most part, whenever people mention it, they usually say "NTSC version" or "PAL version." &ndash; [[User:Owencrazyboy9|Owencrazyboy9]] ([[User talk:Owencrazyboy9|talk]]) 21:58, March 14, 2019 (EDT)
:"History in other media" (see [[Link]] article). [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 15:41, May 17, 2024 (EDT)
::Yeah, ''NTSC region'' and ''PAL region'' are barely used on this wiki, if at all. There's also the issue that NTSC is used in Japan as well, so I can see why ''NTSC region'' isn't really used that much.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:38, March 14, 2019 (EDT)
::Makes sense. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|talk]]) 15:48, May 17, 2024 (EDT)
:::I've mostly sen it in regards to the original ''Luigi's Mansion'', where it ''is'' a difference in-line with said TV parameter differences. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:06, March 14, 2019 (EDT)


I don't really see a need for this proposal, personally. If there's inaccurate terminology being used on the wiki, it should be fixed on a case-by-case basis. I'm sure there's cases where NTSC/PAL is accurate, cases where American/British English is accurate, and cases where neither phrasing would be accurate and something else would need to be used. -- [[User:1337star|1337star]] <sup>([[User talk:1337star|Mailbox SP]])</sup> 13:21, March 21, 2019 (EDT)
{{@|Hewer|Nintendo101|Nightwicked Bowser}} I thought [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/65#Oppose_13|"This is a Super Mario Wiki" as a argument was getting old]], but that's what you 3 are using! What happened in between? Is it not a old argument anymore? [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|talk]]) 09:04, May 20, 2024 (EDT)
:I don't think anything in the comment you reference contradicts any of the sentiments made here. No one is arguing subjects that originated outside of the ''Super Mario'' franchise (like Link, Sonic, [[Mad Scienstein]], [[Wart]], etc.) should not receive coverage, nor that appearances made by subjects that ''did'' emerged within the franchise should not be noted (like ''Link's Awakening'', ''Smash Bros.'', ''Tetris'', ''Qix'', etc.). Rather, because of the inherent scope of the wiki, it is assumed that a "History" section on this site encompasses the subject of the article's appearances in the ''Super Mario'' franchise and it is unclear to me why that needs further clarification. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 09:35, May 20, 2024 (EDT)
::But you said yourself in your oppose vote "Because this is the Super Mario Wiki", which, again, I thought was getting old as an argument. Hewer himself in the linked proposal said it! I'm just confused about what changed in between that and now. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|talk]]) 09:38, May 20, 2024 (EDT)
:::First off, why are you getting on Nintendo101's case for an argument that I made in a proposal they didn't even take part in? Second, my point when I made that comment was that "This is a Super Mario wiki" is getting old as an argument on its own to trim, reorganise, or otherwise alter crossover content like Smash, as Super Mario RPG keeps trying to do, whereas Nintendo101's argument is that, because this is a Super Mario wiki, we don't need to specify that our content is about Super Mario. The same words may have been used, but the context of the arguments is different. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 11:54, May 20, 2024 (EDT)
::::First off, I'm not. Second, I didn't know that the CONTEXT was different, I only paid attention to the words, not the context. Third, a "History" section only covering the ''Super Mario'' franchise kinda neglects the references and cameos. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|talk]]) 12:01, May 20, 2024 (EDT)
:::::Isn't the point of this proposal (which you're supporting) to have history sections that only cover the Super Mario franchise? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 12:05, May 20, 2024 (EDT)
::::::I would like to redirect you to point 2 of the proposal. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|talk]]) 12:31, May 20, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::Does that not just prove my point? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 12:34, May 20, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::The history section is going to be split. That's the point of this proposal. YOUR point is just around 1/2 of the point of this proposal. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|talk]]) 12:45, May 20, 2024 (EDT)


==New features==
==New features==
Line 102: Line 62:


==Removals==
==Removals==
===Remove information about ''Captain N: The Game Master'' + ''Captain Rainbow'' from non-Mario subjects===
''None at the moment''
Currently, [[MarioWiki:Coverage]] considers ''Captain N: The Game Master'' a guest appearance. However, for some reason, editors have decided that this means we should also cover appearances in the show of non-Mario characters that have crossed over with the Mario series in other more relevant media. Additionally, whenever ''Captain N'' is referenced as a subject's first appearance, it is mentioned as "Mario-related media", which I think is inaccurate based on our coverage policy, although this is only done on three articles, while the rest ignore the show in their infobox entirely.
 
This feels strange and outside the scope of our wiki, and doesn't make sense when ''Captain N's'' only relevance to the Mario franchise is that Donkey Kong and a few ''Donkey Kong Jr.'' enemies appear in a few episodes, along with the usage of Warp Zones. It's also inconsistent with how we cover other guest appearances; ''Densetsu no Starfy 3'' is considered a guest appearance, but we no longer have an article on Starfy following our shift in Smash coverage. ''Nintendo Land'' and ''Nintendo Badge Arcade'' don't mention appearances of characters from other franchises on their articles. I did find two other exceptions; Little Mac and Takamaru's articles both mention their appearance in ''Captain Rainbow''. Little Mac's article also mentions his playable appearance in ''Punch-Out!!'', but that's kind of iffy in my opinion and should be saved for another time.
 
Therefore, I propose that coverage of ''Captain N: The Game Master'' and ''Captain Rainbow'' for subjects not originating in the Mario franchise be removed.
 
This would potentially affect the following pages:
*Affected by removing any ''Captain N: The Game Master'' content (Options 1, 2, 3, and 4):
**[[Dr. Light]]
**[[Dragonlord]]
**[[Ganon]]
**[[Link]]
**[[Princess Zelda]]
**[[Ridley]]
**[[Slime (Dragon Quest)]]
*Affected by removing all ''Captain N: The Game Master'' content (Options 1 and 4):
**[[Dr. Wily]]
**[[Dracula]]
**[[Mega Man]]
**[[Pit (character)]]
**[[Simon Belmont]]
*Affected by removing ''Captain Rainbow'' content (Options 1, 2, and 5):
**[[Little Mac]]
**[[Takamaru]]
 
My apologies if this is confusing, I've accidentally made a sort of tangled mess here. Leave any questions in the comments and I'll be glad to sort them out.
 
'''Proposer''': {{User|Waluigi Time}}<br>
'''Deadline''': March 23, 2019, 23:59 GMT
 
====Option 1: Remove all ''Captain N'' and ''Captain Rainbow'' information====
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per proposal.
 
====Option 2: Remove ''Captain N'' information for characters that do not interact with Mario elements and ''Captain Rainbow'' information====
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} My second choice.
 
====Option 3: Just remove ''Captain N'' information for characters that do not interact with Mario elements====
#{{User|Doomhiker}} It is pretty harmless to mention a third party character's appearance in a third party game that we cover, as ''Mario'' characters appear in ''Captain Rainbow''. As with ''Captain N'' I agree with not covering their appearances in episodes that are not ''Mario'' related however I do feel like we should still cover their appearances in episodes where they interact with ''Mario''-related things. Per Glowsquid.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} My second second choice.
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} I think this is the best option, as we sometimes still cover guest appearance-related subjects on their own articles; see [[Nintendo Village]] and [[Mario Chase]] as an example. But since ''Mario'' characters '''do''' appear in the show, I'd say removing all information would be counter-intuitive and have no real benefit. The ''Captain Rainbow'' information is also needed, I feel.
 
====Option 4: Just remove all ''Captain N'' information====
 
====Option 5: Just remove ''Captain Rainbow'' information====
 
====Option 6: Do nothing====
#{{User|Glowsquid}} - I personally think it's Neat and harmless to have an aside saying among the lines of "oh btw this guy is in ''Captain N''/''Captain Rainbow''/other weird crossover" as long as it doesn't go too in-depth. <s>Furthermore, a good chunk of the characters listed in the affected article list do interact with the ''Mario''-relevant elements of ''Captain N'' (see below) and those are interractions are perfectly within the scope of the wiki to describe, so unless that is ammended, I'll have to oppose anyway.</s>
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all.
#{{User|Niiue}} Per all.
#{{User|1337star}} Per Glowsquid.
<s>#{{User|Doomhiker}} It is pretty harmless to mention a third party character's appearance in a third party game that we cover, as ''Mario'' characters appear in ''Captain Rainbow''. As with ''Captain N'' I agree with not covering their appearances in episodes that are not ''Mario'' related however I do feel like we should still cover their appearances in episodes where they interact with ''Mario''-related things, and as this proposal's options only account for completely exterminating information on third party character's appearances in ''Captain N'', I have to fully oppose for now. Per Glowsquid.</s>
 
====Comments====
 
fyi, even if this pass, I would strongy recommend against removing the Captain N info from the pages about the show's core cast (which is to say, Simon Pit and Mega Man) and Dr. Wily since they all interract with Donkey Kong at some point. Infact, one of the show's episode is about Simon Belmont getting knocked on the head, wake up thinking he's Donkey Kong Jr. and going out to find his "father". So yeah, bad idea. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 13:49, March 16, 2019 (EDT)
 
Per requests, I have changed the proposal to add an option to keep information about the characters who interact with Mario-related elements in the show. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 15:15, March 16, 2019 (EDT)


==Changes==
==Changes==
===Merge Assist Trophies that have made minor appearances in the ''Mario'' franchise===
===Move ''Super Smash Bros.'' information for crossover characters into the list articles and delete their ''Super Smash Bros.'' profiles===
'''(See [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_51#Smash_Bros._Articles:_What_Stays_and_What_Goes.3F|this proposal]] before voting.)'''
This proposal concerns ''Super Smash Bros.'' information of certain characters listed in [[Template:Crossover characters|Crossover characters]]. It makes it harder to see the actual ''Super Mario'' content on said articles, like how the [[Isabelle]] page largely concerns her appearances in ''Super Smash Bros.'' while the actual ''Super Mario'' appearances in ''Mario Kart 8'' and ''Super Mario Maker'' are all the way below. In the case of [[Villager]], it starts off by showing the ''WarioWare'' appearances but then has this huge chunk of ''Super Smash Bros.'' information in between that and the appearances in ''Mario Kart 8'' and ''Super Mario Maker''.
 
After the merge for almost all of the categories listed in the linked proposal, there were a handful of pages that were left over, a number of them being [[Assist Trophy|Assist Trophies]]. The reason for this seems to be that they've made some sort of appearance in the ''Mario'' games, be it appearances as Mystery Mushroom [[Costume Mario|costumes]] in ''Super Mario Maker'' and cameos in ''WarioWare'' microgames. However, when you think about the fact that Mystery Mushroom costumes like Babymetal and microgame characters (both non-playable and playable, e.g. the [[Pikmin 2|Empress Bulbax]] or the [[Urban Champion]] fighter) don't have their own articles - which was part of the reason [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_48#Decide_if_Nintendo_Badge_Arcade_constitutes_a_guest_appearance|Arcade Bunny was deleted]] - their still being separate doesn't quite make sense. We've already decided to merge the Assist Trophies, and minor appearances like these in any kind of ''Mario''-related media alone don't warrant separate articles. There have been a few that have already been picked off individually (adding to the inconsistency), [[Talk:Midna|including Midna's page]]; using that as a precedent, it's time we finish this in one fell swoop.


For the sake of going with the original plan of enacting the changes to our ''Smash'' coverage one step at a time, I'm only focusing on the Assist Trophy characters in this proposal instead of every non-''Mario'' subject that may have articles out there, with one exception I found was similar enough to include (see below).
Besides, the List of ''Super Smash Bros.'' fighters pages feel kind of awkward that certain crossover characters do not have their information listed there with other non-''Super Mario'' characters, so this proposal aims to rectify that.


Affected pages:
The fighters on the list pages do not have their profiles, and I don't see why the crossover characters should have them but not the fighters already in the list pages, so if this proposal passes, all of that will be deleted too. This '''includes''' the Profiles section on '''other crossover pages''' like [[Knuckles]], [[Deku Baba]], [[Zangief]], and so forth, since it would be illogical for them to keep their profiles but not the protagonists of the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series, an inconsistency that's already present. But the status of the ''SSB'' content in the History section of crossover content OTHER THAN fighters in the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series can be for a future proposal.
*[[Condor]] - The exception in the proposal: Not an Assist Trophy, but even smaller roles as a stage element in ''Melee''{{'}}s Target Test and appearing in the Ice Climbers' entrance and Final Smash. Its only ''Mario''-franchise appearance is a single microgame.
*[[Excitebike (character)]] - A Mystery Mushroom costume; other than that, it only appears in a banner in [[Excitebike Arena]].
*[[Ghosts (Pac-Man)]] - Covers Blinky's appearance in the ''Mario Kart'' arcade games, who already has his [[Blinky|own page]]. This page is utterly pointless.
*[[Metroid (species)]] - Appears in a few microgames, a treasure in ''WL2'', and the recently discovered cameo in ''DKCTF'', all of which aren't worthy of separate articles.
*[[Mother Brain]] - Appears in a microgame, as well as ''Captain N''; however, recall that [[MarioWiki:Coverage]] lists ''N'' as a guest appearance, meaning we only cover the show itself and any ''Mario''-related elements in it. She is only mentioned by name in the Nintendo Comics System and ''SMRPG''.
*[[Nintendog]] - Two microgame appearances. The article even covers ''Mario'' references in ''Nintendogs'', which belong on the references page.
*[[Sheriff (character)]] - Microgame appearance.
*[[Takamaru]] - Microgame appearance, and same deal with Mother Brain: ''Captain Rainbow'' is a guest appearance, and Takamaru falls outside the coverage.


'''Proposer''': {{user|Mario jc}}<br>
This will affect the following pages, and their ''Super Smash Bros.'' information (excluding profiles) will go into the following articles:
'''Deadline''': March 22, 2019, 23:59 GMT


====Support====
*[[Link]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros.]]
#{{user|Mario jc}} For the same reasons Arcade Bunny and Midna were removed, these should be, too.
*[[Isabelle]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate]]
#{{User|Alex95}} - I was thinking of something like this when I saw the [[Metroid]] disambiguation the other day. Some of these don't need pages on the Mario Wiki, but I didn't realize just how much more we don't really need. Per proposal.
*[[Villager]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U]]
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per proposal. I'd also like to see some of the items from other franchises merged, but that's a proposal for another time.
*[[Kirby]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros.]]
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Merging them makes sense with the previous proposal, and, if a random person tries to look Super Smash Bros series things listed on this wiki, it's better to redirect them on this page.
*[[Sonic]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]
#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Per all.
*[[Mii]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U]]
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per proposal.
*[[R.O.B.]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]
#{{User|Doomhiker}} No point for these pages or other similar pages to exist. The only exceptions that I can think of is Blinky due to his playable appearances in the ''Mario Kart'' series and [[Barbara]] due to her appearing in several web comics. Per all.
*[[Kirby]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros.]]
#{{User|Baby Luigi}} per all
*[[Banjo]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate]]
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} We don't give {{wp|Shantae (character)|Shantae}} any coverage despite her cameos in ''WarioWare: D.I.Y.'' and ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'', so why should any of the listed articles be present on this wiki? Per all.
*[[Kazooie]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate]]
#{{User|MarioManiac1981}} Let's remove these unnecessary articles from the Super '''Mario''' Wiki. Per all.
*[[Mega Man]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U]]
#{{User|1337star}}  Per all. The only one of those I could see keeping is the Metroid article, but that would only be if the other ''WLII'' treasures had articles, and they do not appear to. The Metroid cameo should probably be mentioned on the [[Wario's Treasures]] article, however.  
*[[Pac-Man]] → [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U]]


====Oppose====
There's also Samus, and there's a proposal to currently split the article, so if that passes, her ''Super Smash Bros.'' information will stay on the [[List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros.]] page.


====Comments====
Note: A short summary of the character's role, or any connections to ''Super Mario'', will remain intact, similarly to how [[Mario#History]] has a short summary on Mario throughout his appearance while the main history page on Mario is located at [[History of Mario]].
I originally wanted to include [[Balloon Fighter]] as another exception; however, seeing as he's playable in a number of microgames ''in addition'' to a full-length minigame, this could be open to even greater debate that I think would be best handled separately. If anyone finds any more pages that can be added to the list, please let me know. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 00:26, March 15, 2019 (EDT)


@Doomhiker: As mentioned in the proposal, Blinky already has his own page. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 17:25, March 15, 2019 (EDT)
There are three options: Option 1 will enact all of the changes above, Option 2 will remove only the ''Super Smash Bros.'' profiles from pages on non-''Super Mario'' content, and Option 3 opposes everything in this proposal.
:@Waluigi Time I knew that, I just used his page as an example of pages like the pages that are getting merged that should stay. {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 17:27, March 15, 2019 (EDT)
::Blinky isn't getting merged though, he's unaffected by this proposal. Only the article about the Pac-Man ghosts in general would be merged. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:05, March 16, 2019 (EDT)
:::I know that too, I just used his page as an example. {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 13:10, March 16, 2019 (EDT)


===''Super Mario Galaxy'' / ''Super Mario Galaxy 2'' fiery counterparts===
'''Proposer''': {{User|Super Mario RPG}}<br>
A while ago, I asked {{User|LinkTheLefty}} if "Fiery Gobblegut" is the name of [[Fiery Gobblegut|the fiery version of Gobblegut found in Battle Belt Galaxy]], and he said that the name is unofficial. Since it has also come to our attention that the ''fierier'' version of [[King Kaliente]] from Bowser Jr.'s Lava Reactor does not have its own separate article, I propose we do any of the following:
'''Deadline''': June 4, 2024, 23:59 GMT
<ol style="list-style-type: upper-alpha;">
<li>'''Split the fiery King Kaliente from King Kaliente.''' I strongly suggest doing this, as these versions of the bosses are actually more differentiable than the "X" bosses from ''Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story'' and ''Mario & Luigi: Dream Team'', which we already have split.</li>
<li>'''Merge the fiery Gobblegut with Gobblegut.''' I strongly suggest not doing this, for the reasons listed above.</li>
<li>'''Do nothing.''' I could not have opposed this any more. Allowing this option to pass would cause a horrible inconsistency that would worsen the quality of how we handle alternate versions of enemies and bosses.</li>
</ol>
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Toadette the Achiever}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' March 24, 2019, 23:59 GMT


====Option A====
====Option 1: Full support====
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} My preferred option, for reasons already stated.
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} As proposer.
#{{User|TheDarkStar}} Per proposal.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} I see no good reason to not split King Kaliente's scorched form, if the queen Hisstocrat is split from the normal Hisstocrat, and that the fiery Gobblegut is split from the normal Gobblegut.
#{{User|Doomhiker}} As long as the fire versions of the bosses that are called the same as their regular forms have a good identifier such as (fire) I am fine with this. Per all.
#{{User|bwburke94}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Mister Wu}} Actually, it turns out that the "fiery" King Kaliente not only has a different Japanese name (「オタキング（黒）」, ''Black King Kaliente''), but also its own {{media link|ESMB page 126 Enemies.png|separate}} {{media link|ESMB page 127.png|artwork}}, so I'm going to agree with the split.


====Option B====
====Option 2: Trim profiles only====
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Secondary


====Option C====
====Option 3: Oppose====
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} As I said below, the secondary King Kaliente is no more different from the initial one than the recurring bosses in ''Super Mario 3D World'', ie having different textures, acting slightly more aggressive, and being in a different place, which is not uncommon for recurring bosses in video games as a whole. That to me seems like splitting off every [[Boom Boom]] behavioral difference from ''[[New Super Mario Bros. U]]'', or at least the intermediate and final Koopaling battles in ''[[New Super Mario Bros. Wii]]''. Perhaps even the different [[Birdo]] colors. The Gobblegut thing at least includes the addition of an incendiary exponent not present whatsoever in the initial fight, which cannot be said about King Kaliente. Additionally, the English title of the second Kaliente mission refers to it as the same entity, and I have not seen any evidence that the JP version considers them separate. Nor have I seen evidence that the Gobbleguts are definitively intended to be the same entity (particularly as, again, the "burning" thing comes straight out of nowhere.)
#{{User|Axis}} I believe it's unnecessary.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per Doc von Schmeltwick.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} It makes intuitive sense to just list the ''Super Smash Bros.'' info on the pages of the character when available. (As a side note, the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series has a pretty intimate relationship with the ''Super Mario'' franchise, and I do not think we should be omitting coverage here just because SmashWiki exists. We don't address topics the same way.)
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per Doc.
#{{User|Tails777}} If the characters have an article, I see no reason why Smash stuff should be singled out and removed just because it's not Mario related.
#{{user|Mario jc}} Per Doc.
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Per all, especially Nintendo101
#{{User|Bazooka Mario}} Yeah, King Kaliente should not get split, per the English title card, [[King Kaliente's Spicy Return]]. Unlike Fiery Gobblegut, the second fight involves clearly the same character.
#{{User|Hewer}} It's standard practice (and also pretty logical) to list any time a subject happens to appear alongside Mario stuff. [[Captain N: The Game Master]] is a good example - it's considered a guest appearance, so it doesn't get full coverage, but we still mention things' appearances there if they happen to be covered on the wiki for some other reason, e.g. [[Slime (Dragon Quest)]]. So why should Smash (where Mario stuff perhaps has a greater role than in Captain N) be the one exception? The proposal tries to argue about organisation and finding information, but I'd say unnecessarily splitting a character's information across multiple pages is the real bad organisation here. If people really can't bear to scroll through some Smash stuff in order to find what they're looking for (which, mind, might be the Smash stuff anyway), they can use the contents links at the top of the article to jump to particular sections no problem. And also, to be frank, I don't really understand what the proposal is talking about regarding "profiles".
#{{User|Sdman213}} Per all.
#{{User|FanOfRosalina2007}} Per all, especially Hewer's reasoning.


====Comments====
====Comments====
While I'm not sure how to vote on this proposal quite yet, I'd like to point out that the mission name for the second King Kaliente battle is ''King Kaliente's Spicy Return''. This seems to imply that King Kaliente is indeed the same character in both galaxies. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 19:05, March 17, 2019 (EDT)
<s>[[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/61#Trim_the_Smash_Bros_trophies_page|This passed proposal]] already establishes that non-Mario trophies should be removed from dedicated character articles. Check out the bolded sentence and the rationale after it:<blockquote>It's simple. I propose to simply trim those trophies list pages to only the Mario/DK/Wario etc. character and cut the rest. '''This includes crossover characters that have pages on the wiki''' - while we may have a Link page because he's in Mario Kart 8, his Smash Bros trophy is about Link the protagonist of his own independent intellectual property and not Link the funny Mario Kart 8 man, and it leads to the bizarre situation of having a listing of Link but not the character his series is named after. Best keep things simple. </blockquote> I believe if option 3 were to win in this proposal, that decision would be overturned.</s> {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 15:06, May 28, 2024 (EDT), edited 15:14, May 28, 2024 (EDT)
:That's exactly what I meant to say in the Option C sentence. Same applies to Gobblegut, though. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 20:02, March 17, 2019 (EDT)
:Okay, I'll remove that from the scope of the proposal then. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 15:09, May 28, 2024 (EDT)
 
::Wait, hold on, I may be stupid. That simply specifies that the subjects who have pages on the wiki, but do not pertain to the Mario franchise, would be among the trophies trimmed from the trophy pages, but it does not specify that they'd be trimmed from their own pages as well. I confused myself and hopefully I can clear it up following my above comment. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 15:13, May 28, 2024 (EDT)
Does the scorched Kaliente have its own JP name in any official source? The English mission name indicate's it's the same entity, while it is unlikely at best that Fiery Dino Piranha is the same entity as its counterpart. The JP mission title doesn't seem to indicate either way, does Jr.'s JP dialog or anything from a JP official guide specify? Additionally, the only behavioral difference seems to be he gets more aggressive faster (ie a typical recurring boss thing), with every other difference being from the environment (meteors, sinking platforms, etc). I'd support merging the Hisstocrats and leaving the SMG bosses as-is due to this, as it seems ''far'' more in-line with that than with Gobblegut. An incendiary exponent is much different from "goes raagh faster in a different place." [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:16, March 19, 2019 (EDT)
:::I was about to ask about the example of me trimming the profiles from the [[Sonic]] page applies, but now I'm not sure what's going on myself. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 15:25, May 28, 2024 (EDT)
:Also, IIRC, the normal Hisstocrat and the queen Hisstocrat were found once together. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 03:02, March 21, 2019 (EDT)
::::That was about the lists of all trophies per game, not profile sections for individual subjects. Doesn't look like there's any overlap between these proposals. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 16:14, May 28, 2024 (EDT)
::You do recall correctly, so the current situation with them may be fine. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:57, March 21, 2019 (EDT)


@Mister Wu Does the little blurb paint them as separate entities? How about the JP version of the game itself? Anyways, that's a color identifier, which the guide also uses (inconsistently) with color-varying enemies (which ''also'' tend to get their own artwork). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:03, March 21, 2019 (EDT)
I was going to address the opposition by stating that, should this pass, a short summary of each character's ''SSB'' role will remain on the page (See [[Mario#History]] for a similar type of example), but the main information will be on the list of fighters pages. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 16:42, May 28, 2024 (EDT)


==Miscellaneous==
==Miscellaneous==
''None at the moment.''
''None at the moment.''

Latest revision as of 10:52, May 29, 2024

Image used as a banner for the Proposals page
Current time:
Wednesday, May 29th, 15:07 GMT
Proposals can be new features (such as an extension), the removal of previously-added features that have tired out, or new policies that must be approved via consensus before any action is taken.
  • "Vote" periods last for one week.
  • Any user can support or oppose, but must have a strong reason for doing so (not, e.g., "I like this idea!").
  • All proposals must be approved by a majority of voters, including proposals with more than two options.
  • For past proposals, see the proposal archive and the talk page proposal archive.

A proposal section works like a discussion page: comments are brought up and replied to using indents (colons, such as : or ::::) and all edits are signed using the code {{User|User name}}.

How to

Rules

  1. If users have an idea about improving the wiki or managing its community, but feel that they need community approval before acting upon that idea, they may make a proposal about it. They must have a strong argument supporting their idea and be willing to discuss it in detail with the other users, who will then vote about whether or not they think the idea should be used. Proposals should include links to all relevant pages and writing guidelines. Proposals must include a link to the draft page. Any pages that would be largely affected by the proposal should be marked with {{proposal notice}}.
  2. Only registered, autoconfirmed users can create, comment in, or vote on proposals and talk page proposals. Users may vote for more than one option, but they may not vote for every option available.
  3. Proposals end at the end of the day (23:59) one week after voting starts, except for writing guidelines and talk page proposals, which run for two weeks (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, the voting starts immediately and the deadline is one week later on Monday, August 8, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. Every vote should have a strong, sensible reason accompanying it. Agreeing with a previously mentioned reason given by another user is accepted (including "per" votes), but tangential comments, heavy sarcasm, and other misleading or irrelevant quips are just as invalid as providing no reason at all.
  5. Users who feel that certain votes were cast in bad faith or which truly have no merit can address the votes in the comments section. Users can ask a voter to clarify their position, point out mistakes or flaws in their arguments, or call for the outright removal of the vote if it lacks sufficient reasoning. Users may not remove or alter the content of anyone else's votes. Voters can remove or rewrite their own vote at any time, but the final decision to remove another user's vote lies solely with the administrators.
    • Users can also use the comments section to bring up any concerns or mistakes in regards to the proposal itself. In such cases, it's important the proposer addresses any concerns raised as soon as possible. Even if the supporting side might be winning by a wide margin, that should be no reason for such questions to be left unanswered. They may point out any missing details that might have been overlooked by the proposer, so it's a good idea as the proposer to check them frequently to achieve the most accurate outcome possible.
  6. If a user makes a vote and is subsequently blocked for any amount of time, their vote is removed. However, if the block ends before the proposal ends, then the user in question holds the right to re-cast their vote. If a proposer is blocked, their vote is removed and "(banned)" is added next to their name in the "Proposer:" line of the proposal, which runs until its deadline as normal. If the proposal passes, it falls to the supporters of the idea to enact any changes in a timely manner.
  7. No proposal can overturn the decision of a previous proposal that is less than 4 weeks (28 days) old.
  8. Any proposal where none of the options have at least four votes will be extended for another week. If after three extensions, no options have at least four votes, the proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." The original proposer then has the option to relist said proposal to generate more discussion.
  9. All proposals that end up in a tie will be extended for another week. Proposals with more than two options must also be extended another week if any single option does not have a majority support: i.e. more than half of the total number of voters must appear in a single voting option, rather than one option simply having more votes than the other options.
  10. If a proposal with only two voting options has more than ten votes, it can only pass or fail with a margin of at least three votes, otherwise the deadline will be extended for another week as if no majority was reached at all.
  11. Proposals can only be extended up to three times. If a consensus has not been reached by the fourth deadline, the proposal fails and can only be re-proposed after four weeks, at the earliest.
  12. All proposals are archived. The original proposer must take action accordingly if the outcome of the proposal dictates it. If it requires the help of an administrator, the proposer can ask for that help.
  13. If the administrators deem a proposal unnecessary or potentially detrimental to the upkeep of the Super Mario Wiki, they have the right to remove it at any time.
  14. Proposals can only be rewritten or deleted by their proposer within the first three days of their creation (six days for talk page proposals). However, proposers can request that their proposal be deleted by an administrator at any time, provided they have a valid reason for it. Please note that canceled proposals must also be archived.
  15. Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting or otherwise fixing up pages. To organize efforts about improving articles on neglected or completely missing subjects, try setting up a collaboration thread on the forums.
  16. Proposals cannot be made about promotions and demotions. Users can only be promoted and demoted by the will of the administration.
  17. No joke proposals. Proposals are serious wiki matters and should be handled professionally. Joke proposals will be deleted on sight.
  18. Proposals must have a status quo option (e.g. Oppose, Do nothing) unless the status quo itself violates policy.

Basic proposal and support/oppose format

This is an example of what your proposal must look like, if you want it to be acknowledged. If you are inexperienced or unsure how to set up this format, simply copy the following and paste it into the fitting section. Then replace the [subject] - variables with information to customize your proposal, so it says what you wish. If you insert the information, be sure to replace the whole variable including the squared brackets, so "[insert info here]" becomes "This is the inserted information", not "[This is the inserted information]". Proposals presenting multiple alternative courses of action can have more than two voting options, but what each voting section is supporting must be clearly defined. Such options should also be kept to a minimum, and if something comes up in the comments, the proposal can be amended as necessary.

===[insert a title for your proposal here]===
[describe what issue this proposal is about and what changes you think should be made to improve how the wiki handles that issue]

'''Proposer''': {{User|[enter your username here]}}<br>
'''Deadline''': [insert a deadline here, 7 days after the proposal was created (14 for writing guidelines and talk page proposals), at 23:59 GMT, in the format: "May 29, 2024, 23:59 GMT"]

====Support====
#{{User|[enter your username here]}} [make a statement indicating that you support your proposal]

====Oppose====

====Comments====

Users will now be able to vote on your proposal, until the set deadline is reached. Remember, you are a user as well, so you can vote on your own proposal just like the others.

To support, or oppose, just insert "#{{User|[add your username here]}}" at the bottom of the section of your choice. Just don't forget to add a valid reason for your vote behind that tag if you are voting on another user's proposal. If you are voting on your own proposal, you can just say "Per my proposal".

Talk page proposals

All proposals dealing with a single article or a specific group of articles are held on the talk page of one of the articles in question. Proposals dealing with massive amounts of splits, merges or deletions across the wiki should still be held on this page.

For a list of all settled talk page proposals, see MarioWiki:Proposals/TPP archive and Category:Settled talk page proposals.

Rules

  1. All active talk page proposals must be listed below in chronological order (new proposals go at the bottom) using {{TPPDiscuss}}. Include a brief description of the proposal while also mentioning any pages affected by it, a link to the talk page housing the discussion, and the deadline. If the proposal involves a page that is not yet made, use {{fake link}} to communicate its title in the description. Linking to pages not directly involved in the talk page proposal is not recommended, as it clutters the list with unnecessary links. Place {{TPP}} under the section's header, and once the proposal is over, replace the template with {{SettledTPP}}.
  2. All rules for talk page proposals are the same as mainspace proposals (see the "How to" section above), with the exceptions made by Rules 3 and 4 as follows:
  3. Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one (all times GMT).
    • For example, if a proposal is added at any time on Monday, August 1, 2011, it ends two weeks later on Monday, August 15, 2011, at 23:59 GMT.
  4. The talk page proposal must pertain to the article it is posted on.
  5. When a talk page proposal passes, it should be removed from this list and included in the list under the "Unimplemented proposals" section until the proposed changes have been enacted.

List of ongoing talk page proposals

Unimplemented proposals

Proposals

Merge the Wrecking Crew and VS. Wrecking Crew phases into list articles, Axis (ended February 24, 2022)
Do not consider usage of classic recurring themes as references to the game of origin, Swallow (ended March 9, 2022)
Split Mario Kart Tour character variants into list articles, Tails777 (ended May 4, 2022)
Enforce WCAG Level AA standards to mainspace and template content, PanchamBro (ended May 29, 2022)
Change how RPG enemy infoboxes classify role, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 18, 2022)
Trim away detailed special move information for all non-Mario fighters, Koopa con Carne (ended January 30, 2023)
Classify the Just Dance series as a guest appearance, Spectrogram (ended April 27, 2023)
Establish a standard for long course listings in articles for characters/enemies/items/etc., Koopa con Carne (ended June 8, 2023)
Consider filenames as sources and create redirects, Axis (ended August 24, 2023)
Add tabbers to race/battle course articles, GuntherBB (ended November 18, 2023)
Remove elemental creatures categories from various Super Mario RPG enemies, Swallow (ended January 11, 2024)
Standardize the formatting of foreign and explanatory words and phrases in "Names in other languages" tables, Annalisa10 (ended February 7, 2024)
Merge Super Mario Bros. (film) subjects with their game counterparts, JanMisali (ended April 18, 2024)
Remove profiles and certain other content related to the Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia from the wiki, Koopa con Carne (ended April 30, 2024)
Break alphabetical order in enemy lists to list enemy variants below their base form, EvieMaybe (ended May 21, 2024)
Consider "humorous" and other related terms as frequently misused in MarioWiki:Good writing, DrippingYellow (ended May 28, 2024)

Talk page proposals

Split all the clothing, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 12, 2021)
Split the various reissues of Mario Bros., Doc von Schmeltwick (ended April 22, 2022)
Split machine parts, Robo-Rabbit, and flag from Super Duel Mode, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended September 30, 2022)
Expand source priority exception to include regional English differences, LinkTheLefty (ended January 14, 2023)
Add product IDs in game infoboxes, Windy (ended March 18, 2023)
Remove the list of Super Smash Bros. series objects, Axis (ended May 10, 2023)
Split Special Shot into separate articles by game, Technetium (ended September 30, 2023)
Convert the lists of episode appearances for television series characters into categories, Camwoodstock (ended November 22, 2023)
Change the Super Mario 64 DS level section to include more specific character requirements, Altendo (ended December 20, 2023)
Split the Jungle Buddies from Animal Friends, DrippingYellow (ended December 22, 2023)
Make bestiary list pages for the Minion Quest and Bowser Jr.'s Journey modes, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 11, 2024)
Merge the ghost Bats and Mice from Luigi's Mansion to their respective organic counterparts from the later games, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 20, 2024)
Split Strobomb from Robomb, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended January 20, 2024)
Split the NES and SNES releases of Wario's Woods, SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (ended March 27, 2024)
Merge Mii Brawler, Mii Swordfighter, and Mii Gunner to Mii, TheUndescribableGhost (ended March 28, 2024)
Split Mario's Time Machine (Nintendo Entertainment System), or the Super Nintendo Entertainment version along with both console versions of Mario is Missing!, LinkTheLefty (ended April 11, 2024)
Remove non-Super Mario content from Super Smash Bros. series challenges articles, BMfan08 (ended May 3, 2024)
Merge Stompybot 3000 with Colonel Pluck, DrippingYellow (ended May 4, 2024)
Split "Team Dinosaur" from The Dinosaurs, Blinker (ended May 15, 2024)
Delete Memory Card, Nightwicked Bowser (ended May 23, 2024)
In Template:Species infobox, expand "Relatives" guidelines to include variant-type relationships with significant differences between species, DrippingYellow (ended May 26, 2024)
Split Cheep Blimp (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door) and Zeeppelin from the blimp page, Doc von Schmeltwick (ended May 28, 2024)

Writing guidelines

Standardize "History in the Super Mario franchise" headings under certain conditions

Inspired by Nintendo101's flowerpot subpage (from an earlier revision, before it had been removed), this proposal aims to standardize the use of ==History in the Super Mario franchise== over ==History==. This will help make it clear to readers what is Super Mario and what is not while reading articles, and prevent potential disputes once a standard has been set. Please note that this proposal is NOT about the DK, Yoshi, or Wario subfranchises.

For an article to apply for the ==History in the Super Mario franchise== heading, the article should meet one of the following criteria:

  1. It is a generic subject (e.g. Grapes) or something from real life, like a person, with a fictional portrayal in Super Mario media, such as Thomas Jefferson. An example of this was on the Dinosaur article before being reverted.
  2. It is from the Super Mario franchise BUT has also appeared in non-Super Mario media, popular examples being the Super Smash Bros. series and the Minecraft textures. Everything that isn't Super Mario would be subheadings of ==History in other games==, or ==History in other media== if the subject also (or instead) appeared in publications, television shows, etc. not in Super Mario franchise. An example of this can be seen on the History of Luigi article.
  3. Crossover content, including Nintendo products, as they appear in Super Mario media. Examples can be seen on the Game Boy, Link, and Egg Pawn pages.

For the first bullet point, this would help establish that real and generic subjects are not from Super Mario and makes the History heading less ambiguous. On the Dinosaur article, for example, are we reading about history of dinosaurs as they exist in real life, up to the point of extinction, or from the Super Mario franchise? It's the latter. For George Washington, are we reading history about him from the 18th century or as he exists in the Super Mario franchise? It's also the latter, clearly.

For the second bullet point, this would help eliminate the popular misconception that Super Smash Bros. is part of the Super Mario franchise and help better contextualize Super Mario as it exists in other media, like sometimes Zelda or Minecraft, rather than being integral to the same degree as their main appearances in Super Mario media itself.

For the third bullet point, this would eliminate confusion that the history is talking about Nintendo products in general, like when they were produced, the amount of sales generated, etc. and rather mention its appearances within the Super Mario franchise itself. History on Nintendo products themselves can be found on NintendoWiki. Similarly, for articles like Link, it helps when the History section specifies it is of Link as he appears in the Super Mario franchise. Then connections to Super Mario go under the "History in other media" heading.

To make it short, if this proposal passes, and ==History== is changed to ==History in the ''Super Mario'' franchise== (and split into a separate ==History in other media== in the case of criteria #2) on an article that can be categorized by any of the three numbered bullet points above, users will not be allowed to revert it back to the initial ==History== heading, like in the aforementioned case involving the Dinosaur article.

Proposer: Super Mario RPG (talk)
Deadline: May 31, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support for all three options

  1. Super Mario RPG (talk) I'm for this option.
  2. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) Yes. Also, for the flowerpot thing, I have that saved (with a few tweaks) here.

Apply to only crossover content and real products

Oppose

  1. Hewer (talk) Similar to your previous proposals about reorganising history sections, I don't really see what we'd gain from this. For the first and third bullet points, the edit summary that removed it from the Dinosaur page sums up my thoughts: "This is obvious and unnecessary". Of course we're only going to be covering the subject's history that's within our scope, I don't think anyone's visiting the Dinosaur page seeking a complete history of the Mesozoic Era only to be disappointed when they don't find it. For the second bullet point, I ask the same question as your last attempt to split up non-Mario appearances: why does it not being a Mario game make it worth splitting up? The assertion that they're not "integral to the same degree as their main appearances in Super Mario media itself" feels wrong, games like Smash are major appearances of the Mario characters and are important to their histories, sometimes moreso than appearances in actual Mario games (Smash Melee introducing Yoshi's Egg Roll, Smash Ultimate being K. Rool's first physical appearance in a decade, etc.). I also again question whether "the popular misconception that Super Smash Bros. is part of the Super Mario franchise" exists or is worth "fixing" in such an indirect way (we already don't consider them Mario games to my knowledge anyway). The Game Boy example is the only one given where I see some merit in doing this, since we do give some coverage to the actual histories of Nintendo hardware and it could be worth distinguishing the history of their in-universe appearances from that.
  2. Nintendo101 (talk) Because this is the Super Mario Wiki, the inherent assumption is that any subject with an article appears in the franchise (including Link and Sonic), and that the "History" section would only cover its appearance in the Super Mario franchise. What else would it be about? If a "history in the Super Mario franchise" was to be implemented anywhere, I feel like it only makes sense for recurring subjects that debuted in the Super Mario franchise, but make recurring appearances elsewhere (like Chain Chomps, which make some a few appearances in Zelda). But even in that context, I don't know if it would be appropriate. (I also don't agree with the premise that any in-game subject is "generic", regardless of its name or design. The grapes in Yoshi's Story are just as derived from the real article as the Sour Bunch.)
  3. Nightwicked Bowser (talk) Per my edit summary Hewer quoted.
  4. FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) Per Nintendo101.
  5. Jazama (talk) Per all
  6. Dine2017 (talk) Under criterion #2, common Mario subjects such as Goomba would have a long ==History in the Super Mario franchise== and a short ==History in other games/media==, making the two unbalanced. Also per all. (In the case of Game Boy, I think ==Appearances in the Super Mario franchise== is more accurate, cf. Nintendo Entertainment System and Nintendo 64.)

Comments

For clarity, when I say "standardize," (not to be confused with "allow," since I don't think there's anything in the rules that explicitly forbids formatting in the aforementioned three cases), it means if a page is formatted that way, others aren't allowed to revert it, since it's the standard for how said articles should look. Also, @SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA), glad to see that flowerpot page. Super Mario RPG (talk) 14:32, May 17, 2024 (EDT)

"For clarity, when I say "standardize," (not to be confused with "allow," since I don't think there's anything in the rules that explicitly forbids formatting in the aforementioned three cases), it means if a page is formatted that way, others aren't allowed to revert it, since it's the standard for how said articles should look." Thanks for the clarification! My support will still be there. "Also, @SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA), glad to see that flowerpot page." Thanks! I wanted to keep/expand on it as a subpage of my userpage, b/c I didn't want any edit conflicts. You and @Nintendo101 are free to edit it if you want. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 14:43, May 17, 2024 (EDT)

Wasn't there a proposal about roughly the same thing not too long ago? You're meant to wait 28 days between proposals on the same thing, so if that's the case, we don't exactly wanna wait for a substantial amount of votes before calling attention to it. ~Camwoodstock (talk) 15:12, May 17, 2024 (EDT)

No, I think this is different. That one had to do with removing franchise headers, which this one doesn't. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 15:23, May 17, 2024 (EDT)
Yeah, this one is not about removing headings. It's about modifying "History" to "History in the Super Mario franchise" in one of three case, and in one case (if there's appearances outside of Super Mario), splitting "History in other games/media" into its own history heading. See what I did on Don Bongo as an example. Super Mario RPG (talk) 15:39, May 17, 2024 (EDT)

Where would appearances in things like Smash and Captain N go in this case? -- KOOPA CON CARNE 15:40, May 17, 2024 (EDT)

"History in other media" (see Link article). Super Mario RPG (talk) 15:41, May 17, 2024 (EDT)
Makes sense. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 15:48, May 17, 2024 (EDT)

@Hewer @Nintendo101 @Nightwicked Bowser I thought "This is a Super Mario Wiki" as a argument was getting old, but that's what you 3 are using! What happened in between? Is it not a old argument anymore? SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 09:04, May 20, 2024 (EDT)

I don't think anything in the comment you reference contradicts any of the sentiments made here. No one is arguing subjects that originated outside of the Super Mario franchise (like Link, Sonic, Mad Scienstein, Wart, etc.) should not receive coverage, nor that appearances made by subjects that did emerged within the franchise should not be noted (like Link's Awakening, Smash Bros., Tetris, Qix, etc.). Rather, because of the inherent scope of the wiki, it is assumed that a "History" section on this site encompasses the subject of the article's appearances in the Super Mario franchise and it is unclear to me why that needs further clarification. - Nintendo101 (talk) 09:35, May 20, 2024 (EDT)
But you said yourself in your oppose vote "Because this is the Super Mario Wiki", which, again, I thought was getting old as an argument. Hewer himself in the linked proposal said it! I'm just confused about what changed in between that and now. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 09:38, May 20, 2024 (EDT)
First off, why are you getting on Nintendo101's case for an argument that I made in a proposal they didn't even take part in? Second, my point when I made that comment was that "This is a Super Mario wiki" is getting old as an argument on its own to trim, reorganise, or otherwise alter crossover content like Smash, as Super Mario RPG keeps trying to do, whereas Nintendo101's argument is that, because this is a Super Mario wiki, we don't need to specify that our content is about Super Mario. The same words may have been used, but the context of the arguments is different. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 11:54, May 20, 2024 (EDT)
First off, I'm not. Second, I didn't know that the CONTEXT was different, I only paid attention to the words, not the context. Third, a "History" section only covering the Super Mario franchise kinda neglects the references and cameos. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 12:01, May 20, 2024 (EDT)
Isn't the point of this proposal (which you're supporting) to have history sections that only cover the Super Mario franchise? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 12:05, May 20, 2024 (EDT)
I would like to redirect you to point 2 of the proposal. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 12:31, May 20, 2024 (EDT)
Does that not just prove my point? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 12:34, May 20, 2024 (EDT)
The history section is going to be split. That's the point of this proposal. YOUR point is just around 1/2 of the point of this proposal. SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA) (talk) 12:45, May 20, 2024 (EDT)

New features

None at the moment.

Removals

None at the moment

Changes

Move Super Smash Bros. information for crossover characters into the list articles and delete their Super Smash Bros. profiles

This proposal concerns Super Smash Bros. information of certain characters listed in Crossover characters. It makes it harder to see the actual Super Mario content on said articles, like how the Isabelle page largely concerns her appearances in Super Smash Bros. while the actual Super Mario appearances in Mario Kart 8 and Super Mario Maker are all the way below. In the case of Villager, it starts off by showing the WarioWare appearances but then has this huge chunk of Super Smash Bros. information in between that and the appearances in Mario Kart 8 and Super Mario Maker.

Besides, the List of Super Smash Bros. fighters pages feel kind of awkward that certain crossover characters do not have their information listed there with other non-Super Mario characters, so this proposal aims to rectify that.

The fighters on the list pages do not have their profiles, and I don't see why the crossover characters should have them but not the fighters already in the list pages, so if this proposal passes, all of that will be deleted too. This includes the Profiles section on other crossover pages like Knuckles, Deku Baba, Zangief, and so forth, since it would be illogical for them to keep their profiles but not the protagonists of the Super Smash Bros. series, an inconsistency that's already present. But the status of the SSB content in the History section of crossover content OTHER THAN fighters in the Super Smash Bros. series can be for a future proposal.

This will affect the following pages, and their Super Smash Bros. information (excluding profiles) will go into the following articles:

There's also Samus, and there's a proposal to currently split the article, so if that passes, her Super Smash Bros. information will stay on the List of fighters debuting in Super Smash Bros. page.

Note: A short summary of the character's role, or any connections to Super Mario, will remain intact, similarly to how Mario#History has a short summary on Mario throughout his appearance while the main history page on Mario is located at History of Mario.

There are three options: Option 1 will enact all of the changes above, Option 2 will remove only the Super Smash Bros. profiles from pages on non-Super Mario content, and Option 3 opposes everything in this proposal.

Proposer: Super Mario RPG (talk)
Deadline: June 4, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Option 1: Full support

  1. Super Mario RPG (talk) As proposer.

Option 2: Trim profiles only

  1. Super Mario RPG (talk) Secondary

Option 3: Oppose

  1. Axis (talk) I believe it's unnecessary.
  2. Nintendo101 (talk) It makes intuitive sense to just list the Super Smash Bros. info on the pages of the character when available. (As a side note, the Super Smash Bros. series has a pretty intimate relationship with the Super Mario franchise, and I do not think we should be omitting coverage here just because SmashWiki exists. We don't address topics the same way.)
  3. Tails777 (talk) If the characters have an article, I see no reason why Smash stuff should be singled out and removed just because it's not Mario related.
  4. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) - Per all, especially Nintendo101
  5. Hewer (talk) It's standard practice (and also pretty logical) to list any time a subject happens to appear alongside Mario stuff. Captain N: The Game Master is a good example - it's considered a guest appearance, so it doesn't get full coverage, but we still mention things' appearances there if they happen to be covered on the wiki for some other reason, e.g. Slime (Dragon Quest). So why should Smash (where Mario stuff perhaps has a greater role than in Captain N) be the one exception? The proposal tries to argue about organisation and finding information, but I'd say unnecessarily splitting a character's information across multiple pages is the real bad organisation here. If people really can't bear to scroll through some Smash stuff in order to find what they're looking for (which, mind, might be the Smash stuff anyway), they can use the contents links at the top of the article to jump to particular sections no problem. And also, to be frank, I don't really understand what the proposal is talking about regarding "profiles".
  6. FanOfRosalina2007 (talk) Per all, especially Hewer's reasoning.

Comments

This passed proposal already establishes that non-Mario trophies should be removed from dedicated character articles. Check out the bolded sentence and the rationale after it:

It's simple. I propose to simply trim those trophies list pages to only the Mario/DK/Wario etc. character and cut the rest. This includes crossover characters that have pages on the wiki - while we may have a Link page because he's in Mario Kart 8, his Smash Bros trophy is about Link the protagonist of his own independent intellectual property and not Link the funny Mario Kart 8 man, and it leads to the bizarre situation of having a listing of Link but not the character his series is named after. Best keep things simple.

I believe if option 3 were to win in this proposal, that decision would be overturned. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 15:06, May 28, 2024 (EDT), edited 15:14, May 28, 2024 (EDT)

Okay, I'll remove that from the scope of the proposal then. Super Mario RPG (talk) 15:09, May 28, 2024 (EDT)
Wait, hold on, I may be stupid. That simply specifies that the subjects who have pages on the wiki, but do not pertain to the Mario franchise, would be among the trophies trimmed from the trophy pages, but it does not specify that they'd be trimmed from their own pages as well. I confused myself and hopefully I can clear it up following my above comment. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 15:13, May 28, 2024 (EDT)
I was about to ask about the example of me trimming the profiles from the Sonic page applies, but now I'm not sure what's going on myself. Super Mario RPG (talk) 15:25, May 28, 2024 (EDT)
That was about the lists of all trophies per game, not profile sections for individual subjects. Doesn't look like there's any overlap between these proposals. --Waluigi's head icon in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 16:14, May 28, 2024 (EDT)

I was going to address the opposition by stating that, should this pass, a short summary of each character's SSB role will remain on the page (See Mario#History for a similar type of example), but the main information will be on the list of fighters pages. Super Mario RPG (talk) 16:42, May 28, 2024 (EDT)

Miscellaneous

None at the moment.

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