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Talk:Mario: Difference between revisions
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I would argue that the source for Mario's last name also being Mario is false. Miyamoto's quote clearly leaves Mario and Luigi's last name ambiguous, equating it to Mickey Mouse not really having a last name. https://nintendoeverything.com/miyamoto-says-marios-full-name-is-mario-mario/ --[[User:Seandwalsh|Seandwalsh]] ([[User talk:Seandwalsh|talk]]) 10:28, 20 November 2018 (EST) | I would argue that the source for Mario's last name also being Mario is false. Miyamoto's quote clearly leaves Mario and Luigi's last name ambiguous, equating it to Mickey Mouse not really having a last name. https://nintendoeverything.com/miyamoto-says-marios-full-name-is-mario-mario/ --[[User:Seandwalsh|Seandwalsh]] ([[User talk:Seandwalsh|talk]]) 10:28, 20 November 2018 (EST) | ||
:That was back in 2012. Miyamoto has embraced the last name since 2015, even joking more recently that Link's full name is just like Mario's: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qApEgUxp58k&t=1m18s Link Link.] [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 10:42, 20 November 2018 (EST) | :That was back in 2012. Miyamoto has embraced the last name since 2015, even joking more recently that Link's full name is just like Mario's: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qApEgUxp58k&t=1m18s Link Link.] [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 10:42, 20 November 2018 (EST) | ||
I'd argue that just because Miyamoto says Mario has a last name doesn't mean it's true. It's like how J.K. Rowling said Hermione was black even though the books (she wrote) clearly stated that she had white skin. Miyamoto says Mario has a last name but none of the games back up this claim. The only real source for Mario having a last name is the 1993 Mario Movie and that is shown to not be canon to the games.--[[User:Pizza Master|Pizza Master]] ([[User talk:Pizza Master|talk]]) 19:08, August 6, 2023 (EDT) | |||
:Except that nothing in the games contradicts Mario being the last name, so we have no reason to not trust Miyamoto on the subject. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 19:38, August 15, 2023 (EDT) | |||
If Miyamoto flip-flops between whether they do or don't have a last name, can we really trust that they do? What if he flip-flops back to saying they (Mario and Luigi) don't have last names? Also, though the games don't contradict Miyamoto they also don't support Miyamoto either. I think we should leave the last name blank because there has yet to be confirmation from the games on the subject.--{{User:Pizza Master/sig}} 17:22, August 16, 2023 (EDT) | |||
:If he changes his mind again then we'll reflect that, but he hasn't done so since 2015, and he only changed his mind once anyway. And if we were to remove information on the basis of not being confirmed nor denied by the games, the wiki would be pretty different (there's plenty of enemies that are unnamed in the games and use their names from guides, books, websites, emails, etc.). {{User:Hewer/sig}} 08:43, August 17, 2023 (EDT) | |||
Fair enough. Though, I do think that Mario having the same first and last name is pretty dumb. It makes me wonder; Is Wario's full name Wario Wario?--{{User:Pizza Master/sig}} 16:03, August 17, 2023 (EDT) | |||
:If that were the case, Waluigi's full name would be "Waluigi Wario". However, Wario and Waluigi's last names weren't confirmed by Nintendo, only Mario's full name was confirmed to be "Mario Mario"; also making Luigi's full name "Luigi Mario". [[User:Jake Lugo|Jake Lugo]] ([[User talk:Jake Lugo|talk]]) 10:08, March 9, 2024 (EST) | |||
== The writing is AWFUL == | == The writing is AWFUL == | ||
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:He doesn't, that's from a fake video. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 21:18, February 15, 2020 (EST) | :He doesn't, that's from a fake video. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 21:18, February 15, 2020 (EST) | ||
Yeah. The guy had just used Super Mario™ pipes and similar ground tiles which just annoyed Nintendo but had Dong Nguyen actually put Mario in the game Nintendo would've noticed since the game was a huge success and they would've sued and removed the game from the app store. [[User:I'manumber1|I'manumber1]] ([[User talk:I'manumber1|talk]]) 17:32, December 7, 2021 (EST) | |||
==Religion== | ==Religion== | ||
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That's just Game Theory nonsense. Miyamoto confirmed that Jumpman is Mario. Always has been. [[User:I'manumber1|I'manumber1]] ([[User talk:I'manumber1|talk]]) 13:48, October 31, 2021 (EDT) | That's just Game Theory nonsense. Miyamoto confirmed that Jumpman is Mario. Always has been. [[User:I'manumber1|I'manumber1]] ([[User talk:I'manumber1|talk]]) 13:48, October 31, 2021 (EDT) | ||
Jumpman is the same guy as Mario. {{User|Gandalf}} 12:12, March 12, 2023 | |||
== "Vulgar Tendencies" == | == "Vulgar Tendencies" == | ||
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No proof? Then it should be deleted immediately. [[User:I'manumber1|I'manumber1]] ([[User talk:I'manumber1|talk]]) 19:39, November 10, 2021 (EST) | No proof? Then it should be deleted immediately. [[User:I'manumber1|I'manumber1]] ([[User talk:I'manumber1|talk]]) 19:39, November 10, 2021 (EST) | ||
:The sources can be found on the [[Shitamachi Ninjō Gekijō]] article. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 19:44, November 10, 2021 (EST) | :The sources can be found on the [[Shitamachi Ninjō Gekijō]] article. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 19:44, November 10, 2021 (EST) | ||
== P3 & P4 == | |||
I don't know if this is the place to ask this but should I create articles for P3 & P4 from the Mario Bros. remake present in M&L SS and all the Mario Advance games? I know you could say there's not enough info on them but they are playable and are officially named. My source is https://www.suppermariobroth.com/post/157350665210/sprites-of-the-two-additional-brothers-from-the. {{unsigned|I'manumber1}} | |||
:Don't think so, imo. This is like making the colored Luigis from Luigi's Mansion their own articles. Keep in mind that I'm also not quite fond of [[Junior (II)|junior II's article]] either, memed as it may be. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 16:44, January 1, 2022 (EST) | |||
Well this is different. All the Luigi's don't have names. These two do. I don't know if that makes much of a difference but I just wanted to get that out there. [[User:I'manumber1|I'manumber1]] ([[User talk:I'manumber1|talk]]) 19:32, January 1, 2022 (EST) | |||
:I agree with Ray Trace, they look like they were just created to be palette swaps for additional players which would be too minor of a subject to have an article for. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 19:59, January 1, 2022 (EST) | |||
== Is the Mario page still not well put together? == | |||
So i was scrolling throught the disscusion page on Mario and while scrolling i noticed quite few people saying that the Mario page was not "great". Like for example the history page having tons of grammatical errors. Now of course these disscusions are sort of old but anyways, is the Mario page fixed now or does it still have errors? | |||
I mean... I did notice ONE error, that being how on the appearence page, Mario Party Superstars is not present {{unsigned|Shadic 34}} | |||
:I've probably given the history section quite a few proofreading sweeps over my long stay at this wiki. I don't think the grammar errors are as present as before, and the most constant pressing issue for this page is the history section: mammoth coverage that's likely not complete as well as some unnecessary story details from the MaRPGs. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 20:00, January 19, 2022 (EST) | |||
== Jumpman only in Japanese Donkey Kong? == | |||
If I remember correctly, Mario is only called Jumpman in official Donkey Kong arcade cabinets and ports in Japan. Should the article be changed to reflect this? {{unsigned|136.56.161.47}} | |||
:No, Jumpman was used only in the English language arcade instructions (and its ''Arcade Archives'' re-release instructions). They were printed before he was officially named "Mario" in the American arcade flyer. In the Japanese arcade instructions, he is a nameless player character simply known as the "player"「プレイヤ」. He was still the nameless "rescue man" in the Japanese instructions for the Game & Watch version which came out in June 1982. Two months later, Nintendo of Japan used Mario when they released ''Donkey Kong Jr.'', which made it official in all locations.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 08:55, November 9, 2022 (EST) | |||
== Article size policy == | |||
*[[MarioWiki:Article size]] | |||
<blockquote>"The section then remains on the original article, the {{tem|main}} template is used to link to the new article, and a much more top-level summary is given in that section of the original article. For example, summarizing the "History" section of Mario to give a much more top-level overview and using {{tem|main}} to link to a new page entitled "History of Mario". "</blockquote> | |||
Shouldn't we be making an article titled {{fake link|History of Mario}}? It's spelled right there in our example! {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 01:00, November 11, 2022 (EST) | |||
:It's about time that we started splitting off these massive history sections, let's do it. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 18:40, January 27, 2023 (EST) | |||
::Support! {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 18:51, January 27, 2023 (EST) | |||
:::All right. What do you think should be changed for this new page? Maybe readd the images I removed back? Maybe we can have more plot details? {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 19:04, January 27, 2023 (EST) | |||
::::Something closer to pre-trim is probably the way to go, since that information was only reduced in the first place because of the article's length. I still think we should be more selective with images though, since there can be a tendency to go overboard with them which just doesn't look nice if there's not enough text there. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 19:08, January 27, 2023 (EST) | |||
== Proper Catchphrase for Mario == | |||
I believe that a more proper catchphrase at the top of the page would be "Let's-a go!" from Super Mario 64. Mario uses this phrase way more often, and I don't remember Mario ever saying "It's-a me" outside of Super Mario 64 releases. But what do you guys think? [[User:TomAndTheCats|TomAndTheCats]] ([[User talk:TomAndTheCats|talk]]) 17:52, February 2, 2023 (EST) | |||
:Mario says "It's-a me" in Battle League, one of the latest Mario games. He also says "It's-a me, Mario" or "It's-a me" in Mario Tennis 64, Mario Teaches Typing 2, Mario Super Sluggers (when calling to plants), Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour, and when he gets a Double Cherry in Super Mario 3D World! Wario even riffs on it saying "It's a Wii, Wario" for a Wii-related WarioWare game. That's likely not an exhaustive list but "It's-a me, Mario" is uniquely Mario; a lot of other characters do say "Let's go". That's not to say "Let's-a go" is a bad choice, but I just think "It's-a me" is better. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 22:14, February 2, 2023 (EST) | |||
== Early sources for Mario's occupations == | |||
An overwhelming amount of Japanese websites believe Mario became established as a plumber in the [[Super Mario Bros. (film)|1993 American live-action film]]. According to them, the character's occupation simply varied from game to game and he was more of a generic everyman hero before the movie. So I went over a lot of the early official materials in Japanese and English. In Japan, ''Donkey Kong'' for the arcade had a threadbare description. The anonymous player character needs to rescue Lady from Kong. That's it. It was the American flyer that presented Mario his name and occupation as a carpenter. While the Famicom port uses Mario's name, there is no mention of him being a carpenter. The Japanese weren't aware he was ever a carpenter until much later through staff interviews. | |||
Contrary to popular belief, ''Mario Bros.'' did not make him a plumber. The brothers are simply removing pests from their home's pipes. Mario was still described as a carpenter in Atari's MB manuals. The closest reference is in the back of the 1986 NES port's box which describes them as "plumbing", but does not explicitly state that it is their profession. It seems more of a case of home repair than paid labor. | |||
The earliest source I could find is not in a game but from official media. The American [[The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!|''Super Show!'']] from 1989 unambiguously makes the brothers professional plumbers with their own company. This explains the crux of the divide. While Japan and the US share the same corpus of mainline games, official media is almost entirely segregated. Japan has its anime and manga, while the US has its comics, cartoons, and activity books which were exported to many countries ''but not to Japan''. The characters' personalities are markedly different from each side of the Pacific. In the West, the heroes are sanitized E for Everyone but in Japan they can be crass and vulgar. For example, manga Peach can get extremely violent, jealous, and petty. This can be witnessed in the audio drama of ''[[BS Super Mario USA]]'' and ''[[BS Super Mario Collection|Collection]]''. The 1993 film was one of the few instances that crossed the cultural gap and introduced the concept that they are professional plumbers to Japan. | |||
If you can find an earlier source stating Mario as a plumber, please let us know.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 13:37, April 22, 2023 (EDT) | |||
:Is there any promotional material that says anything relevant? {{User:Mario/sig}} 14:03, April 22, 2023 (EDT) | |||
:: There was a promotional interview released for Odyssey that brings up "plumber" as one of Mario's professions if that counts. Plus, them removing pests from their home's pipes was made up for the Atari version. An interview with Shigeru Miyamoto explicitly sets the game within New York's plumbing system. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 09:20, May 10, 2023 (EDT) | |||
:::I see. I know that later material does more firmly establish this fact, but I was wondering how early the whole "Mario is a plumber" part happened. The discussion above suggests that the film is first to establish this, so I was asking for any material that possibly predates this movie claiming that. Mario is a plumber rather than just every day hero. {{User:Mario/sig}} 22:43, May 10, 2023 (EDT) | |||
:::: I'm not sure, honestly. I think it was one of those things the American translators came up with (given it was established as early as Mario Bros.) and Japan decided to adopt later. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 11:02, May 11, 2023 (EDT) | |||
:::::{{media link|Nintendo Power issue 6 image 1.png|''Nintendo Power'' issue 6 page 19}} calls Mario a plumber in regards to SMB2. That pushed it back to a few months before the ''Super Show!''.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 07:17, May 14, 2023 (EDT) | |||
We do have {{media link|MB_Mario_and_Luigi_with_Plumbing_Supplies_Artwork.jpg|artwork of Mario and Luigi as plumbers}}, the problem is when this was drawn. The specific scan is from a year 1993 rerelease, while in terms of Japanese material I saw it in the year 1994 Super Mario Bros. Daizukan, but it might have been an earlier artwork. In any case it is referred to the original Mario Bros., so the idea that they were plumbers there was definitely around. Actually, [https://nintendoeverything.com/miyamoto-explains-why-mario-is-italian/ this year 2010 interview is pretty telling]: | |||
<blockquote> | |||
Now with Mario, I think with Mario Bros. we had a setting of course that was underground, so I just decided Mario is a plumber. Let’s put him in New York and he can be Italian. | |||
</blockquote> | |||
So, according to Miyamoto, Mario was indeed intended to be a plumber in ''Mario Bros.''.—-[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 10:11, May 14, 2023 (EDT) | |||
:That's besides the point. While Mario was intended to be a plumber during the development of MB, if nothing was published to the general public (that I'm aware of), no one would know what his job was. Atari still called him a carpenter in their MB ports. What I'm looking for is the earliest official sources stating that he is a plumber to the public. So far, I've pushed it back to mid-'89.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 11:11, May 14, 2023 (EDT) | |||
== Mario's Species == | |||
I thought Mario's species was confirmed to be "Homo Nintendous", why is it labeled as human? [[User:I'manumber1|I'manumber1]] ([[User talk:I'manumber1|talk]]) 03:29, June 8, 2023 (EDT) | |||
:Do you have a source for that? He's referred to as a human in the movie at least, can't remember other exact instances. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 04:15, June 8, 2023 (EDT) | |||
::"Homo Nintendous" was a one-off joke from a non-retail character manual from the late 80s-early 90s, not a serious indication that he wasn't a human. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 07:01, June 8, 2023 (EDT) | |||
Oh, it was just a joke, well-then I guess he should continue to be called Human then. [[User:I'manumber1|I'manumber1]] ([[User talk:I'manumber1|talk]]) 16:28, June 8, 2023 (EDT) | |||
:<s>Mario's species is [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Characters#Mario_.28species.29|Mario]]</s> {{User:Mario/sig}} 17:16, June 8, 2023 (EDT) | |||
== New Image == | |||
Should we update the character image with the file:///MarioSMBW.png one?{{unsigned|Violetmushroom}} | |||
:We'll do that when the game releases. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 21:20, October 13, 2023 (EDT) | |||
Okay, but which one? The one I mentioned above of him holding the wonder flower, or the one of him jumping? I’m thinking we should use the latter for the Super Mario (form) page.{{unsigned|Violetmushroom}} | |||
::The one without the Wonder Flower should be the one used here, you may want to look at [[Template:Character infobox]]. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 11:03, October 14, 2023 (EDT) | |||
== Disambiguation page == | |||
So I was editing pages, as one does, and I realize that I accidentally added a page to the meta category "articles with too many about links." I fix it, realise the Dash page is in said category, suggest to add a disambiguation page for that, the page is created, all is well. But then I realized that ''this article'' was on the page. Not good. | |||
Now, I know it was removed from that meta category, but this article still fits said criteria. Such is why I propose the idea of making a Mario disambiguation page: include the links to [[Super Mario (franchise)]], [[Mario (film character)]], [[Baby Mario]] and the character from [[The Super Mario Bros. Movie]], if he ever gets added or not. That way, we can have the disambiguation page, and keep the "'Jumpman' redirects here" section, as the criteria for the meta category is to have more than 3 about links. --[[User:OmegaRuby|JoeCool]] ([[User talk:OmegaRuby|talk]]) 12:42, October 16, 2023 (EDT) | |||
== Is the Super Mario Bros. Movie set in the same world as the games? == | |||
Because on Mario's page it uses Mario reuniting with Luigi in the movie as an example of their family bond. Isn't the movie set in a different canon than the games? And yes, I'm aware the Mario series doesn't have an official canon. I think. -- [[User:FanOfRosalina2007|FanOfRosalina2007]] ([[User talk:FanOfRosalina2007|talk]]) 14:18, November 12, 2023 (EST) | |||
:You answered your own question. There is no canon, so everything "is canon", meaning the wiki treats the Mario movie the same way it treats any other Mario media. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 15:21, November 12, 2023 (EST) | |||
::Yeah, so if the movie shows an example, we document it. How we decide to cover it is dependent on how illustrative it is. The movie's entire plot is based on Mario's rescuing Luigi so I think it's a good example to support a summary of their relationship. {{User:Mario/sig}} 15:40, November 12, 2023 (EST) | |||
:::Oh, okay! For some reason I didn't realize that. Good to know! -- [[User:FanOfRosalina2007|FanOfRosalina2007]] ([[User talk:FanOfRosalina2007|talk]]) 22:22, November 12, 2023 (EST) | |||
== Role Section == | |||
I was thinking about adding a role section to the "List of game appearances" section that indicates what role he played in each game, like as a playable character or an antagonist or a non-playable character or a protagonist and stuff like that. {{unsigned|Wonderman23}} | |||
:I encourage it! The list of game appearances needs an overhaul to fit other character pages, see [[Princess Daisy]]. {{User:Mario/sig}} 17:41, December 2, 2023 (EST) | |||
::I'm seeing the edits. Thank you very much for working on it. [[File:Mario's side.gif]] {{User:Mario/sig}} 17:53, December 2, 2023 (EST) | |||
== Add rowspanning to the List of appearances section? == | |||
Should I add rowspanning to the table in [[Mario#List of appearances|List of appearances]]? So many rows have the same text so it would make the table look more organized. | |||
{| class="wikitable" | |||
|+ Here's an example of what I'm talking about: | |||
|- | |||
! Header text !! Header text !! Header text | |||
|- | |||
| Example || rowspan=2|Example || rowspan=3|Example | |||
|- | |||
| Example | |||
|- | |||
| Example || Example | |||
|} | |||
Would this be worth doing, or is the section fine how it currently is? {{User:NintendoFan08/sig}} 07:23, December 3, 2023 (EST) | |||
:No, because it would end up looking like [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Mario_Kart_Tour&diff=prev&oldid=3763731#Ranked_cup this chart on the right]. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 07:40, December 3, 2023 (EST) | |||
::No, I don't recommend rowspanning. {{User:Mario/sig}} 21:38, December 4, 2023 (EST) | |||