MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/18: Difference between revisions
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=== Different Version Characters === | === Different Version Characters === | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|17-2|support}} | |||
In the Mario film and also in the Mario cartoons, there are versions of characters that are not necessarily the same characters from the character's real media. Such as: | In the Mario film and also in the Mario cartoons, there are versions of characters that are not necessarily the same characters from the character's real media. Such as: | ||
*The princess in the Mario film basically has all of the qualities Peach would have with a few exceptions including her name. | *The princess in the Mario film basically has all of the qualities Peach would have with a few exceptions including her name. | ||
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If there's any confusion, ask. This proposal was made from ides of numerous users on the comments of previous confusion from the original proposal made by Redstar. | If there's any confusion, ask. This proposal was made from ides of numerous users on the comments of previous confusion from the original proposal made by Redstar. | ||
'''Proposer:''' [[User:ForeverDaisy09|FD09]]<br> | '''Proposer:''' [[User:ForeverDaisy09|FD09]]<br> | ||
'''Deadline:''' 1 December 2009, 17:00 | '''Deadline:''' 1 December 2009, 17:00 | ||
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:::I love how you say I am so wrong. There are many things that the majority has wanted that hasn't been right. Now, while I will refrain on calling your proposal biased towards your wanting to separate media so much, I will say that we should follow the way that is more in accordance with our rules. Either way, we are making speculation, but what ultimately matters is which side would add more speculation. The way I see it, these characters were given names by the creators. In example, we cannot just go and say that the Bowser from the movie is not Bowser. Although he did not look like Bowser, that is who he is based on. Whether you like it or not, we have been given their names and their characters are in the movie. Princess Daisy, although she may look, act, and appear to be Peach, was given the name Daisy. One major plotline that would support this is that Daisy goes out with Luigi, and although this may be because the writers didn't want to make it look like a creepy old dude going out with a young girl (don't worry Walkazo, I'm not stealing this from you. I'm borrowing the saying), but Nintendo itself added the idea of a possible romance between Luigi and Daisy. It is horrendous to go and say that Daisy ''could'' be the Daisy in the movie, when we are ''told'' it is Daisy. Let me finish with a quote: "Don't know what else to tell ya, guy. Yes it is your OPINION. And here opinion is majority rule. Clearly you are in the wrong." {{User|Super Mario Bros.}} | :::I love how you say I am so wrong. There are many things that the majority has wanted that hasn't been right. Now, while I will refrain on calling your proposal biased towards your wanting to separate media so much, I will say that we should follow the way that is more in accordance with our rules. Either way, we are making speculation, but what ultimately matters is which side would add more speculation. The way I see it, these characters were given names by the creators. In example, we cannot just go and say that the Bowser from the movie is not Bowser. Although he did not look like Bowser, that is who he is based on. Whether you like it or not, we have been given their names and their characters are in the movie. Princess Daisy, although she may look, act, and appear to be Peach, was given the name Daisy. One major plotline that would support this is that Daisy goes out with Luigi, and although this may be because the writers didn't want to make it look like a creepy old dude going out with a young girl (don't worry Walkazo, I'm not stealing this from you. I'm borrowing the saying), but Nintendo itself added the idea of a possible romance between Luigi and Daisy. It is horrendous to go and say that Daisy ''could'' be the Daisy in the movie, when we are ''told'' it is Daisy. Let me finish with a quote: "Don't know what else to tell ya, guy. Yes it is your OPINION. And here opinion is majority rule. Clearly you are in the wrong." {{User|Super Mario Bros.}} | ||
:"Don't know what else to tell ya, guy. Yes it is your OPINION. And here opinion is majority rule. Clearly you are in the wrong". Hey look, I'm doing it too! ...? I don't really need to discuss it with you considering your opinion is, as they say, set in stone. [[User:ForeverDaisy09|FD09]] | :"Don't know what else to tell ya, guy. Yes it is your OPINION. And here opinion is majority rule. Clearly you are in the wrong". Hey look, I'm doing it too! ...? I don't really need to discuss it with you considering your opinion is, as they say, set in stone. [[User:ForeverDaisy09|FD09]] | ||
---- | |||
===Merge Traps and Obstacles pages to super-article=== | ===Merge Traps and Obstacles pages to super-article=== | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|1-5|no merge}} | |||
These pages are usually quite small and would be better suited if merged to a super-article. This would allow them to be better located as well as cut down on needless articles covering every minor aspect of the games. | These pages are usually quite small and would be better suited if merged to a super-article. This would allow them to be better located as well as cut down on needless articles covering every minor aspect of the games. | ||
'''Proposer:''' [[User:Redstar|Redstar]]<br> | |||
'''Deadline:''' December 1, 2009, 17:00 | '''Deadline:''' December 1, 2009, 17:00 | ||
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::Actually, in an article about a platform, we could list all the different types of platforms that appear in the games. But forget about that. Why can't we merge the obstacle articles into the game they appear in, instead of a "super -article". Or perhaps a sub article about obstacles on a certain game. Like for Yoshi's Island(the game) it could be, Yoshi's Island/obstacles, just like we did for beta stuff. {{User|Fawfulfury65}} | ::Actually, in an article about a platform, we could list all the different types of platforms that appear in the games. But forget about that. Why can't we merge the obstacle articles into the game they appear in, instead of a "super -article". Or perhaps a sub article about obstacles on a certain game. Like for Yoshi's Island(the game) it could be, Yoshi's Island/obstacles, just like we did for beta stuff. {{User|Fawfulfury65}} | ||
:::Something like that could work, but many platforms, obstacles, and traps make multiple appearances throughout the series. I really just want to get most of these articles placed somewhere where they can provide more general information. I really don't see the point in have them all separated, so alternative proposals are fine by me. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 01:12, 29 November 2009 (EST | :::Something like that could work, but many platforms, obstacles, and traps make multiple appearances throughout the series. I really just want to get most of these articles placed somewhere where they can provide more general information. I really don't see the point in have them all separated, so alternative proposals are fine by me. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 01:12, 29 November 2009 (EST}} | ||
---- | |||
===Category Split=== | ===Category Split=== | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|15-0|split}} | |||
OK, this proposal is to propose that we split [[:Category:Featured Articles]] into Category:Featured Articles and Category:Featured images. I have no idea why featured ''images'' are categorized as featured ''articles'' but I just have this feeling that they should both get their own individual categories. The only change that would be needed to do this would be a little edit to {{tem|FI}}. This is an easy thing to do and will stop images from being categorized as articles.<br> | |||
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Marioguy1}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline:''' Friday December 4th, 2009 (8:00 EST) | '''Deadline:''' Friday December 4th, 2009 (8:00 EST) | ||
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====Comments==== | ====Comments==== | ||
---- | |||
===Removal of Support/Oppose Votes Votes=== | ===Removal of Support/Oppose Votes Votes=== | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|canceled}} | |||
This proposal is to allow two things: | This proposal is to allow two things: | ||
#The removal of votes in the "Removal of Support/Oppose Votes" section. | #The removal of votes in the "Removal of Support/Oppose Votes" section. | ||
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Anyhow, here are my points: The Removal of Support/Oppose Votes section is not well-ruled and any vote goes ATM. I propose that we do one of three things, allow any user to create another section to remove that vote OR allow any user to just remove the vote as long as they put a comment in the comments section as to why OR allow admins to remove the votes as long as they put a comment in the comments section. Same thing goes for my second thing that I am proposing because we really need to define some rules for these sections. | Anyhow, here are my points: The Removal of Support/Oppose Votes section is not well-ruled and any vote goes ATM. I propose that we do one of three things, allow any user to create another section to remove that vote OR allow any user to just remove the vote as long as they put a comment in the comments section as to why OR allow admins to remove the votes as long as they put a comment in the comments section. Same thing goes for my second thing that I am proposing because we really need to define some rules for these sections. | ||
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Marioguy1}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline:''' Friday December 11th, 2009 (18:00) | '''Deadline:''' Friday December 11th, 2009 (18:00)<br> | ||
'''Date Withdrawn:''' December 5, 2009, 04:00 GMT | |||
====Removal of Votes==== | ====Removal of Votes==== | ||
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:I don't really understand the proposal (probably because what it's trying to deal with is complete nonsense in itself), but you're right: something needs to be done. However, that something is to merely rewrite Rule 4, and seeing as this issue has destabalized the entire Proposals page, it might be best if the Admins are left to deal with it behind the scenes. This proposal is well-meaning and your desire to right the wrongs is appreciated, but it will make things happen a lot faster if you simply remove it - that way, we won't have to wait a week to take action. - {{User|Walkazo}} | :I don't really understand the proposal (probably because what it's trying to deal with is complete nonsense in itself), but you're right: something needs to be done. However, that something is to merely rewrite Rule 4, and seeing as this issue has destabalized the entire Proposals page, it might be best if the Admins are left to deal with it behind the scenes. This proposal is well-meaning and your desire to right the wrongs is appreciated, but it will make things happen a lot faster if you simply remove it - that way, we won't have to wait a week to take action. - {{User|Walkazo}} | ||
::OK, take it away admins! {{User|Marioguy1}} | ::OK, take it away admins! {{User|Marioguy1}} | ||
---- | |||
===Make bestiaries or not?=== | ===Make bestiaries or not?=== | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|0-12|make bestiaries just for rpg's}} | |||
Ok so users have been arguing on if there should be a bestiary for enemies or not(like a collection of all the enemies from a game in one article). Really, why do we need a bestiary? I'm not the best at explaining, but my reasons on why there shouldn't be a bestiary are below. | Ok so users have been arguing on if there should be a bestiary for enemies or not(like a collection of all the enemies from a game in one article). Really, why do we need a bestiary? I'm not the best at explaining, but my reasons on why there shouldn't be a bestiary are below. | ||
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HOWEVER, games in the [[Paper Mario (series)|Paper Mario series]] and [[Super Mario RPG]] SHOULD have bestiaries because their games have psychopath thoughts/tattles and bestiaries. But yeah, no need for bestiaries on those other games. Happy voting! | HOWEVER, games in the [[Paper Mario (series)|Paper Mario series]] and [[Super Mario RPG]] SHOULD have bestiaries because their games have psychopath thoughts/tattles and bestiaries. But yeah, no need for bestiaries on those other games. Happy voting! | ||
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Fawfulfury65}}<br> | '''Proposer:''' {{User|Fawfulfury65}}<br> | ||
'''Deadline:''' 5, December 2009, 15:00 | '''Deadline:''' 5, December 2009, 15:00 | ||
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Ok I agree that it should only be for Paper Mario games and SMRPG, but no other games, so my proposal wa, once again, edited. Hopefully, now I won't have to edit it anymore. So everyone can change their vote or whatever. {{User|Fawfulfury65}} | Ok I agree that it should only be for Paper Mario games and SMRPG, but no other games, so my proposal wa, once again, edited. Hopefully, now I won't have to edit it anymore. So everyone can change their vote or whatever. {{User|Fawfulfury65}} | ||
---- | |||
===What's a Koopa?=== | ===What's a Koopa?=== | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|2-9|do not merge koopa and koopa troopa}} | |||
I think that the pages [[Koopa]] and [[Koopa Troopa]] should be merged together because, frankly, what on earth is a Koopa? The page lists all of the sub-species of Koopa Troopas and that could be done on the page Koopa Troopa or not done at all because it is not necessary. When I think of Koopa, I think of turtle enemy-thing in Mario but this page does not describe the turtle-enemy thing, it describes its sub-species and all of those subspecies descriptions are one sentence long with {{tem|main}}! I think that Koopa=Koopa Troopa and I'm sure you will agree. | I think that the pages [[Koopa]] and [[Koopa Troopa]] should be merged together because, frankly, what on earth is a Koopa? The page lists all of the sub-species of Koopa Troopas and that could be done on the page Koopa Troopa or not done at all because it is not necessary. When I think of Koopa, I think of turtle enemy-thing in Mario but this page does not describe the turtle-enemy thing, it describes its sub-species and all of those subspecies descriptions are one sentence long with {{tem|main}}! I think that Koopa=Koopa Troopa and I'm sure you will agree. | ||
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Marioguy1}}<br> | '''Proposer:''' {{User|Marioguy1}}<br> | ||
'''Deadline:''' Friday December 11th, 2009 (8:00 EST) | '''Deadline:''' Friday December 11th, 2009 (8:00 EST) | ||
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:::I believe "Koopa", as suggested by the "Koopa tribe", is meant to encompass all the various turtle-races into a singular group. (Though, as far as we know, Piranha Plants could be Koopas as well under the "tribe") Koopa Troopas are just the catch-all, generic Koopa, which is why they can be called just Koopas. (Like in many sci-fi works, humans are so common that they're the "standard" in judging appearance and so on). I always just took the term Troopa, and thought it meant Koopa Troopas were "troopers"... Perhaps it's just a title? They're Koopas, unless they're a member of the Koopa ''Troop'', in which case they're "Troopas". Does that make sense? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] | :::I believe "Koopa", as suggested by the "Koopa tribe", is meant to encompass all the various turtle-races into a singular group. (Though, as far as we know, Piranha Plants could be Koopas as well under the "tribe") Koopa Troopas are just the catch-all, generic Koopa, which is why they can be called just Koopas. (Like in many sci-fi works, humans are so common that they're the "standard" in judging appearance and so on). I always just took the term Troopa, and thought it meant Koopa Troopas were "troopers"... Perhaps it's just a title? They're Koopas, unless they're a member of the Koopa ''Troop'', in which case they're "Troopas". Does that make sense? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] | ||
:::As far as I'm aware, "Koopa" in the Japanese games has always been no more than a name; that of [[Bowser]], to be exact. The mention of a "Koopa tribe" and names like "Koopa Troopa" are afaik exclusive to the English localisation (Koopa Troopas for instance are named Noko-Noko in Japan, Koopa Paratroopas are Pata-Pata), and I don't think it has ever been officially stated what a "Koopa" would be according to the translators. The closest information we can get is the Koopa Troopas being referred to as Koopas in SMW's ending, which as Redstar pointed out may just as well mean they are the most common members of a Koopa tribe (which would include other sub-species as well) as it may indicate that Koopa and Koopa Troopa refer to the same thing. No real clarity seems to come from official sources.--[[User:Vellidragon|vellidragon]] | :::As far as I'm aware, "Koopa" in the Japanese games has always been no more than a name; that of [[Bowser]], to be exact. The mention of a "Koopa tribe" and names like "Koopa Troopa" are afaik exclusive to the English localisation (Koopa Troopas for instance are named Noko-Noko in Japan, Koopa Paratroopas are Pata-Pata), and I don't think it has ever been officially stated what a "Koopa" would be according to the translators. The closest information we can get is the Koopa Troopas being referred to as Koopas in SMW's ending, which as Redstar pointed out may just as well mean they are the most common members of a Koopa tribe (which would include other sub-species as well) as it may indicate that Koopa and Koopa Troopa refer to the same thing. No real clarity seems to come from official sources.--[[User:Vellidragon|vellidragon]] | ||
Vellidragon: That's what [[Koopa (disambiguation)]] and {{tem| | Vellidragon: That's what [[Koopa (disambiguation)]] and {{tem|about}} are for :P<br> | ||
Redstar: All of that goes under [[Koopa Troop]]. {{User|Marioguy1}} | Redstar: All of that goes under [[Koopa Troop]]. {{User|Marioguy1}} | ||
:The Koopa Troop is the personal army of Bowser's (hence the "Troopa" part applied to Koopas that fight for him... Not that no Koopa that isn't sided with him has the Troopa part). The Koopa ''tribe'' would be a more broad grouping covering all Koopas regardless of political alignment. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] | :The Koopa Troop is the personal army of Bowser's (hence the "Troopa" part applied to Koopas that fight for him... Not that no Koopa that isn't sided with him has the Troopa part). The Koopa ''tribe'' would be a more broad grouping covering all Koopas regardless of political alignment. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] | ||
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:::King Bean: Can you elaborate on that? {{User|Marioguy1}} | :::King Bean: Can you elaborate on that? {{User|Marioguy1}} | ||
Okay, how about this: Koopa is the species name for the generic-turtle enemies in the game, namely "Koopa Troopas". "Troopa", however, is a job title or position. Koopa Troopas are members of the Koopa Troop, making them troopers. This is supported by the Koopa Paratroopas, who take their name from paratroopers, or parachuting soldiers. This suggests that normal, wingless "Troopas" are also soldiers... Also take into account the RPG games, where we get most of our information. Enemy Koopa Troopas are specifically said to be working for Bowser. Compare this to Kent C. Koopa, an enemy that works alone, and note that his Tattle information calls him simply a "Koopa". No "Troopa" part. All the non-enemy Koopas in Koopa Village and, later, in Petalburg, are simply called Koopas. It seems highly likely that the difference is Koopa is species, and Troopa is title/position, much like the various "Bros." enemies carry the weapon or technique they use as a sort of job position-title. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] | Okay, how about this: Koopa is the species name for the generic-turtle enemies in the game, namely "Koopa Troopas". "Troopa", however, is a job title or position. Koopa Troopas are members of the Koopa Troop, making them troopers. This is supported by the Koopa Paratroopas, who take their name from paratroopers, or parachuting soldiers. This suggests that normal, wingless "Troopas" are also soldiers... Also take into account the RPG games, where we get most of our information. Enemy Koopa Troopas are specifically said to be working for Bowser. Compare this to Kent C. Koopa, an enemy that works alone, and note that his Tattle information calls him simply a "Koopa". No "Troopa" part. All the non-enemy Koopas in Koopa Village and, later, in Petalburg, are simply called Koopas. It seems highly likely that the difference is Koopa is species, and Troopa is title/position, much like the various "Bros." enemies carry the weapon or technique they use as a sort of job position-title. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] | ||
:Fawfulfury: I have read the articles over again, again and again and, whether you like it or not, Koopas and Koopa Troopas are the same thing; just because the article is a list of different types of the sub-species of Koopa Troopas doesn't make it a valid article in the slightest. I could very well put {{tem| | :Fawfulfury: I have read the articles over again, again and again and, whether you like it or not, Koopas and Koopa Troopas are the same thing; just because the article is a list of different types of the sub-species of Koopa Troopas doesn't make it a valid article in the slightest. I could very well put {{tem|stub}} under almost every single one of those sections! The article has many tiny sections displaying stuff that, if it should be here at all, should be under List of Koopa Troopa Subspecies. If you still believe in your cause; what's a koopa? I'll tell you what it is, it's a Koopa Troopa; that article was obviously made by someone who didn't know we had an article on Koopa Troopas already. {{User|Marioguy1}} | ||
::What makes that so "obvious"? I'd rather say the article was made by someone who believed "Koopa" to be a collective term for all the turtle-like enemies in the Mario games, which may or may not be true, since the games are rather vague on that.--[[User:Vellidragon|vellidragon]] | ::What makes that so "obvious"? I'd rather say the article was made by someone who believed "Koopa" to be a collective term for all the turtle-like enemies in the Mario games, which may or may not be true, since the games are rather vague on that.--[[User:Vellidragon|vellidragon]] | ||
:::Walkazo: Would you consent to having these articles merged but a "List of Koopa Troopa Subspecies" made? Because I think most people that type in "Koopa" are looking for a Koopa Troopa and not a list of their subspecies. We could add the list of subspecies to [[Koopa (disambiguation)]]. {{User|Marioguy1}} | :::Walkazo: Would you consent to having these articles merged but a "List of Koopa Troopa Subspecies" made? Because I think most people that type in "Koopa" are looking for a Koopa Troopa and not a list of their subspecies. We could add the list of subspecies to [[Koopa (disambiguation)]]. {{User|Marioguy1}} | ||
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::::No, "Troopas" ''is'' as meaningless as "Bros." in these respects, so the comparison is valid. As an example, I give you ''[[Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door]]'': both [[Dark Koopa]]s and [[KP Koopa]]s are described as "Koopa Troopas" in their tattles, yet one is found exclusively in the [[Pit of 100 Trials (Rogueport)|Pit of 100 Trials]] and the other is only encountered in the [[Glitz Pit]], so they're hardly soldiers of the Koopa Troop. - {{User|Walkazo}} | ::::No, "Troopas" ''is'' as meaningless as "Bros." in these respects, so the comparison is valid. As an example, I give you ''[[Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door]]'': both [[Dark Koopa]]s and [[KP Koopa]]s are described as "Koopa Troopas" in their tattles, yet one is found exclusively in the [[Pit of 100 Trials (Rogueport)|Pit of 100 Trials]] and the other is only encountered in the [[Glitz Pit]], so they're hardly soldiers of the Koopa Troop. - {{User|Walkazo}} | ||
:::::By the same token, [[Kent C. Koopa]] (an enemy not working for Bowser) is described by his Tattle description to be the "Biggest Koopa ever". The Troopa-nomer is absent. So, really, both our arguments are supported and it's only localization and Nintendo that make it vague. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] | :::::By the same token, [[Kent C. Koopa]] (an enemy not working for Bowser) is described by his Tattle description to be the "Biggest Koopa ever". The Troopa-nomer is absent. So, really, both our arguments are supported and it's only localization and Nintendo that make it vague. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] | ||
---- | |||
===Merge RPG Boss Aspects With Main Boss Articles=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|blue|invalidated due to breaking rule #11}} | |||
This proposal is for support of moving a particular type of boss minion (as explained below) in the RPG games to their related main boss article. This is because these particular minions are ''only'' encountered in battle alongside bosses, because their Tattle information suggests they are either a part of or actually are the boss, because the main boss article is lacking complete information, and finally, because the splitting of these minions has largely resulted in stubs. | |||
The following are a list of which minions are proposed to be merged, to whom, and why. | |||
#The four Elemental Crystals in [[Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars]], being [[Fire Crystal]], [[Water Crystal]], [[Earth Crystal]], and [[Wind Crystal]]. All but the Wind Crystal are stubs, composed of mostly only a single sentence and an enemy template. These enemies are only ever fought alongside [[Culex]], whose article already covers most of the information these stubs have. I propose merging these articles as sections of the main Culex page and creating redirects. | |||
#The [[Petit Piranha]] and [[Lava Bud]] articles with the main [[Lava Piranha]] boss article. They are only ever encountered during the boss fight with the Lava Piranha. In fact, Lava Bud's Tattle description says "Lava Buds are little flower branching out from the main stem of the Lava Piranha.". This clearly points out they're only different "heads" of the same enemy. Petit Buds are spewed from Lava Buds, making them also part of the Lava Piranha. All are really the same enemy, so they should be merged to provide comprehensive information on the singular character. | |||
#The [[Tuff Puff]] article into the main boss [[Huff N. Puff]] article. Tuff Puffs are only ever encountered in battle with the boss Huff N. Puff, and their Tattle information even says "These are the Tuff Puffs that break off when you damage Huff N. Puff." This clearly makes them the same enemy, just different "heads". Merge as a section. | |||
#And, finally, the [[Crystal Bit]] article into the main boss [[Crystal King]] article. Just like all the previous examples, Crystal Bits are only ever encountered in battle with the boss Crystal King. Also, like some of the previous examples, their Tattle description says " This is a Crystal Bit. '''Basically, Crystal Bits are just pieces of the Crystal King.''' You can drop 'em with ease. Their Max HP is 1 and they're only dangerous when the Crystal King spews 'em out. Their defense power is 0. These guys are pretty weak. They'll keep coming, though, until you've finally beaten the Crystal King." This clearly says they are the same enemy, just different "pieces". | |||
In summation, here is a quick and easy list of what this proposal will accomplish: | |||
#Remove stubs by merging them with their main articles | |||
#Create more complete articles by piecing together all the information in one place | |||
#Remove unnecessary division of information | |||
And reasons why: | |||
#The information is divided. Putting it all in one place creates more complete articles as well as removes stubs | |||
#Many of these divisions are enemies that are either different rounds of a boss, or just their weapon. Still others are just pieces of the boss, so aren't really a different enemy | |||
If anyone has any questions or comments, feel free to use the Comments section below. Hopefully I provided enough information to make a decision. If you agree with this proposal in general, but you don't agree with some of the merges or are wary of the reason ''why'', feel free to comment about it and we can discuss it. This is a big proposal and I don't want anyone Opposing if they don't agree with just one aspect. | |||
'''Proposer:''' [[User:Redstar|Redstar]]<br> | |||
'''Proposed Deadline:''' <s>December 8, 2009, 17:00</s> '''Extended:''' December 15, 2009, 17:00 | |||
'''Date Withdrawn:''' December 14, 2009, 20:38 GMT | |||
====Support==== | |||
#{{User|Redstar}} - Per proposal | |||
#{{User|Fawfulfury65}} First off, we'll just put their tattles in the same article. Not really any harm in that. Since those enemies are controlled of part of that enemy, they should be in the same article. So per Redstar's proposal. | |||
#{{User|Baby Mario Bloops}} - First of all for all the opposers, they are battled at the same time, asist in the battles, and has too much information linking to the bosses. Also, do we want stubs, or articles? This is too little information for both the bosses and minions to be articles beyond stubs. | |||
#{{User|Marioguy1}} - This would combine all kinds of useful information into one place - making it easier to access. | |||
#{{User|MATEOELBACAN}}- Per all, we '''need''' this! | |||
#{{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}} These are stub-like articles that are just simply part of the bosses. I think it's ridiculous that projectiles or other stuff like that used by bosses have their very own article. | |||
#{{User|Knife}} - Changed vote. I recently stumbled on [[Straw]], which technically is part of a boss. If this proposal fails, we would have to keep that article. We'd also have to split [[Exor]] for consistency (which is literally composed of body parts). Just because an enemy can be targeted and has a tattle, doesn't mean it needs an article. | |||
#{{User|Vellidragon}} - Per Knife, mainly. Having individual articles for different parts of the same boss/enemy seems unnecessary; it's like devoting an individual article to [[Corkpedite]]'s body (or the Goomnut tree in the [[King Goomba]] battle for that matter, since it can be targeted). I see no reason not to merge them, all it would do is make getting information on the respective boss fights easier since it's all in one place. | |||
# [[User:Lu-igi board|Lu-igi board]] at the very least merge the crystals with Culux | |||
#{{User|Waluigi Guy}} - Per all, because, some boss battles also have more than one boss, such as the [[Axem Rangers]], it is split into [[Axem Black]], [[Axem Green]], [[Axem Pink]], [[Axem Red]], and [[Axem Yellow]]. The [[Shadow Sirens]] is split into [[Beldam]], [[Marilyn]], [[Vivian]], and [[Doopliss]] (Vivian and Doopliss are debatable). Merging [[Booster]], with his [[Snifit]]s, would also be possible. [[Bowletta]], should be merged, with [[Flaret]], because, Flaretts (as stated in their own page,) are not even enemies, just items. [[Bowser???]] - Per Proposal. Adding Mario Clone, to [[Mario]], Mallow Clone, to [[Mallow]], Geno Clone, to [[Geno]], Bowser Clone, to [[Bowser]], and Taodstool 2, to [[Peach]]. Merging [[Aero]], to Bowyer. Marging [[Brobot]] and [[Brobot L-Type]], to [[Mr. L]], because they are both Mr. L's weapons. etc... | |||
#{{User|Doopliss_rocks}} - Per Waluigi Guy | |||
#{{User|Dimenshi Knight}} - IF all the opposers read the stubby articles, then read the Exor article, you should instantly agree with this proposal. Enemies in Bowser's Army don't need to be merged because they made their own stand and have many appearances throughout the Mario era. These Redstar are pointing out are the one time bosses and enemies that appeared in mostly the RPG series. They extremely need to be done, or we would have to split the articles that are merged this way (Exor for example, who be split into left/right eye, Neosquid, and Exor (main), and all would be stubs!!!). Just, for the sake of unstubifiying the Mario Wiki, support this!!! | |||
#{{User|Randoman123456789}} - Per all. | |||
#{{User|LeftyGreenMario}} Different parts of the same boss shouldn't need their own articles. Or different battles of the same boss. | |||
#{{User|ProblemSmiled}} - Per Dimenshi, per all. I may be new here, but even I can see that this is a good idea. We don't do this on the other wikis I edit. | |||
====Oppose==== | |||
#{{user|Tucayo}} - Different tattles, different battles, different enemy, different article | |||
#{{User|Vini64}} Per Tucayo. | |||
#{{User|Stooben Rooben}} - Per Tucayo. | |||
#{{User|Edofenrir}} - The enemies you have listed there are minions of a greater boss. They are affiliated with him, they take out his orders without complaints, they even may go as far as to sacrifice themselves for him, but ther are not '''identical''' with him. We cannot just say that they are the same when there is no solid proof. On the other hand, there is evidence that they are separate beings by the different tattles! Under this circumstances, merging these articles would not be recommendable. This is why I disagree! So per me, and per Tucayo! | |||
#{{User|FunkyK38}} - Per Tucky and Edo. They shouldn't be merged, and with all these merges, where are we going to draw a line for what needs to be merged and what doesn't? | |||
#{{User|Gamefreak75}} Per Tucayo and Edo. | |||
#{{User|Lemmy Koopa Fan}} Per Tucayo and Edofenrir. | |||
#{{User|Reversinator}} Per Tucayo and Edo. | |||
#{{User|King Bean}} - Per Edo. | |||
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Per all. | |||
#{{User|Supermariofan14}} - What can I say? Per Tucayo and Edo. | |||
#{{user|Bloc Partier}} - Admittedly, I'd agree on this proposal without the fact that Tubba's Heart and the other Paper Mario articles are suggested. A solid "no" from me. | |||
====Comments==== | |||
@Tucayo: Lava Piranha before and after becoming covered in fire gets a different Tattle description... Does this make the two different enemies? No, it doesn't, and many other enemies are of the same circumstances. Many of these proposed merges have Tattles that specifically say they are a part of, or the ''same'' being as the enemy. The different body parts of [[Exor]] aren't divided among different articles, even though they each have different stat-spreads and tattles (Psychopath Thoughts). Likewise, all of these "minions" or extensions of the main boss are fought in the ''same'' battle, not different ones. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 16:51, 1 December 2009 (EST) | |||
:Thanks for noticing, we should split Exor. {{user|Tucayo}} | |||
::Uhh, yeah. I don't think anyone's going to support splitting a character just because they have different points of attack. But if this proposal fails, I suppose it would extend to Exor. I suppose next you'll want to make individual pages for the Koopa Bros.. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 16:57, 1 December 2009 (EST) | |||
:::Of course we wouldnt split Exor, that was sarcasm. Its a single enemy. {{user|Tucayo}} | |||
Quote Edofenrir: "And next we merge Magnus Van Grapple with Lord Crump? It's the same guy, just surrounded by a load of metal." Well, yes. I go to [[Lord Crump]]'s page and see a section very vague. If I want the whole story, I have to go to the [[Magnus Van Grapple]] page. Why do I need to jump around to get all the information? Magnus Van Grapple is ''not'' a character, and is ''not'' a boss... Lord Crump piloting it is, so the experience should be told from his perspective, not from an inanimate object. This proposal changes little. All it does is move all the information to one place where it is the most productive. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 17:18, 1 December 2009 (EST) | |||
Just to be absolutely clear, are you proposing that the 8 cases listed above should be merged, or that those and all similar cases should be merged? {{user|Twentytwofiftyseven}} | |||
BMB: Yea, we dont want stubs, we want artciles, so lets ''expand'' those, merging is not a good solution. {{user|Tucayo}} | |||
::I'm only proposing this for these 8 specific cases. There may be similar situations, but those won't immediately be affected. They should at least be discussed on their respective pages, though, if someone deems a similar merge necessary. | |||
@FunkyK38: The line will be drawn quite cleanly. Merges will not occur all over, rendering this Wiki a copy of Wikipedia. There will still be articles dealing with a singular topic, hotlinked from main articles. The only reason these are brought up is because they are all aspects of the same enemy, just different "attack points", so to speak. Dividing them is unnecessary and only serves in spreading information which should be read in one place. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 21:58, 1 December 2009 (EST) | |||
After reading over my list of suggested merges, I've decided that Chompy to Tutankoopa and Shy Squad to General Guy could easily be cut. They, to a degree, are individual enemies so are more on-the-fence compared to the other examples. Would anyone change their vote in favor of this proposal if these two were removed? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 22:06, 1 December 2009 (EST) | |||
Wait a sec, I'm not understanding. The Proposals page never had a ''removal of votes'' section. Why this proposal have? {{User|Vini64}} | |||
Alright, now you are fighting dirty. The rule you are refering to applies only in case of bad-faith or reasons that are so blatant that the wiki cannot support them. This rule is '''in no way''' a green card for expelling other people's opinions of their value. Tucayo's vote is valid, and mine was too! Stop this attempts to rig the Proposal! - {{User|Edofenrir}} | |||
:The section is not simply for bad-faith votes; it is also for votes with no given reason and I'm afraid your vote falls under that category. Your vote was: And next we merge Magnus Van Grapple with Lord Crump? It's the same guy, just surrounded by a load of metal. I disagree. per Tucayo. Where is the reason in that? If you want Magnus Van Grapple merged with Lord Crump or not then say so but do not put it as a vote. {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
::I disagree with the removal of Tucayo's vote. Nintendo is horrendously vague about so many things ([[Bowser]] vs. [[Dry Bowser]], anyone?), so believing that a sentient heart (or whatever) is a character unto itself is a perfectly valid opinion. Tucayo belives they are separate beings - and so must the people per-ing him - and so believes they deserve separate articles; this is a perfectly valid reason to oppose this proposal. It's not misinformation, it's just one way of looking at things; you got a problem with it, take it up with him, but it's not enough to call a vote over. - {{User|Walkazo}} | |||
Walkazo: Until further notice there is not removal of removal of support/oppose votes nominations or comments sections. If you wish to have either of these things done then propose it here or on the admin boards but don't just go ahead and do it. I disagree with the removal of Tucayo's vote but there should be no comments placed there at all. {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
:I'm sorry redstar, edofenrir's vote is valid as it pers tucayo's vote which is also valid so I will not be able to vote to remove it (thought the rest of the vote ''is'' invalid) {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
::The abuse of democratic values that were given to the users of this wiki in this Proposal is shocking. This foul display of abuse to gain personal advantages utterly disgusts me. I am disappointed. - {{User|Edofenrir}} | |||
I believe that people should be able to vote about what they think without fear of their votes being rendered, "invalid" and getting removed. The people of this wiki should be free to vote about what they see fit, and neither Tucayo or Edofenrir's votes are invalid. {{User|Lemmy Koopa Fan}} | |||
:I agree ATM but unfortunately what if I added the vote GOOD IDEA, I SUPORT LULZ!!!!!!!!!!!!? That vote would have necessary removal but, as edofenrir said, this function should be reserved for that function only - that is why I have removed my vote to remove his vote. {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
In the past, I saw votes saying "Good idea" that were not removed. Why these are being now? {{User|Vini64}} | |||
:The rules were changed {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
::There was always a rule against votes like that, but sometimes there was simply no one around to remove them. - {{User|Walkazo}} | |||
How exactly is Tucayo's vote "not specific"? He's stating the fact that they are different enemies, so they get different articles. Just because he didn't write it in a textbook fashion (i.e. "They are different enemies with different tattles, thus they should have different articles") doesn't make the vote invalid. -- {{User|Stooben Rooben}} | |||
:For everyone else, I don't understand what the big deal is. The option is there to remove votes, and three people voted. Obviously, two people agreed with me. That is very democratic, and Edo's vote was simply "I disagree". He should have provided a better reason then that, which he now has. As for my response to Stooben, Tucayo's vote is misleading and has two incorrect points. He states that these enemies are different, and fought in different battles. They are not. They are fought only in the same battle, and their tattles say they are part of or actually are the boss. So, he's lying. Saying their Tattles say they're different enemies is wrong. His vote has two wrong points to two valid ones, so the whole thing should be removed and, if he so chooses, re-added with entirely valid reasons. I don't want people to read his vote and think all those points are true when they're really not. If they're really such different enemies, then why do the Crystal Bits tattle say "They are pieces of the Crystal King", Tuff Puffs say "They break off from Huff N. Puff", and Petit Piranha's says "They are flowers that grow off the stem from the Lava Piranha"? Since when are pieces of my body not considering me? They also say that these different Tattles are indicative of different enemies... Well, then we should get to work splitting the different forms of Smithy and Exor, as well as any other boss that has multiple body parts and a different Tattle for each. Clearly, if my hand has a different description from my chest, they're not a part of me and different entities. They should be split for consistency. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 04:45, 5 December 2009 (EST) | |||
I will not remove neither modify my vote, because I know it is perfectly valid. In the worst of the cases, I can just per Edo ;) {{user|Tucayo}} | |||
:And yet, Edo's vote is ''still'' leaving much to wonder about. What exactly is this "solid evidence"? Likewise, how is your vote "perfectly valid"? You say they're different enemies, and different battles... Why and how? I've offered undeniable evidence supporting the contrary, while your vote simply states something and doesn't back it up. I felt Edo's vote and yours lack merit, and at least for Edo's I got two votes and that of an admin. How exactly is that "rigging" it? If MATEO and MG1 were socks, yes. But they're not. They're two people that agreed, and one person with authority-bound honor... You said that I was close-minded in that chat, but you're the one that has so far refused to offer any explanation for your opinion. I've explained my reasons and revised my proposal many times over, yet ''I'm'' the close-minded one? Please, all I'm asking is for a legitimate rebuttal, and not just a disagreement. You're biding your vote for MG1's Koopa proposal below, until the difference between Koopas and Koopa Troopas is defined, so why can't you define the difference between your own reasons? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 11:16, 5 December 2009 (EST) | |||
::For the record, none of the people who voted to remove Edofenrir's vote were administrators. And even if they were, it wouldn't matter, as this does not change the weight of a vote. Also, why did you think you can remove a vote that was supported by a valid reason? The rule said that a vote has to have ''no'' merit or be cast in bad faith. You've said yourself that Tucayo's vote had some merit, so it wasn't not eligible for removal under that rule. {{User|Twentytwofiftyseven}} | |||
:::He basically said that he doesn't want to merge the articles because they deal with different individuals. I got it, many other users got it, I'm sure everyone should be able to get it. Every information you need is up there, so use your eyes and read it! If you still say you don't get it then, then you probably don't want to get it to have a point to remove it. On a side note I recommend you to learn more about democratic values, and how abusing them leads the entire system to collapse. And please, don't type a respond to justify everything (once again). Use this energy to think about what other people told you, and what you attempted to do here. If you are not ready to do that, I have nothing more to say to you. - {{User|Edofenrir}} | |||
::::@Twentytwofiftyseven: I'm fairly sure MG1 is an admin of some sort. And Tucayo's vote holds two invalid points contrasts by two valid ones, so shouldn't that make the entire vote invalid? | |||
::::@Edofenrir: You and Tucayo say they're different individuals, but neither of you have provided a reason as to ''why'' while I have provided their Tattle descriptions which explicitly say they ''are'' the same individual... I also know as much about democratic values as I need to, and I in no way abused them. How did I? I used a system already in place, I put up a vote, and two people besides myself voted. If I was "abusing" it, then I wouldn't have received anything. You're the one abusing it through your position of sysop and basically changed the rule to negate true democracy and put the power to remove votes ''only'' in the hands of sysops. If sysops are voting, and sysops have votes that should be removed, then how is it democratic if no one can vote? It can only be "discussed" now... And after the discussion, then what? Is there a private vote for only sysops? I don't understand how that is any more democratic than what we already had, but you claim was somehow "rigging". [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 12:39, 5 December 2009 (EST) | |||
:::::Your comment just showed me that you don't care about what other people tell you. I see no point in going on, since you don't even want to reconsider. I'm not that eager to waste my time talking to someone who won't listen. Good afternoon. - {{User|Edofenrir}} | |||
Redstar: I am not an admin of any sort unless you mean on userpedia and could we please, as Edo said, drop this subject? The admins are coming out with an advancement on rule #4 and we just have to trust them on that; wait a couple days until the rule has come out and then propose it. {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
:Edo, I don't even know what you're talking about. You keep accusing me of all these things and getting heated over a simple proposal. You're the one that's being rude and not listening... I mean, just look at the edit history. You say "Eat it" as the summary for editing your vote. Is that any way for a sysop to behave? You're supposed to be professional and courteous, yet you rudely attack me and accuse me of all these things. I'm just trying to help improve the wiki in ways I believe would be good. MG1, sorry, I thought you were one. On Bulbapedia, welcome templates are automated and any of that stuff is only handled by admins. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 12:59, 5 December 2009 (EST) | |||
::Well, as admin it is my duty to be impartial, and that's why I didn't give you a warning for nominating my vote to be partially removed (which is btw the same as proposing to rewrite my vote, which is a ''heavy'' violation the rules). As a human being it is my right to be pissed to have my vote and the vote of a friend of mine assassinated by dubious usage of rule no. 4. I also have to ask you to quote correctly. I said "Eat this" in a joking way, when I rewrote my vote. And now, as MG1 said, this discussion should be ended. I suggest you to re-read what I said, what Walkazo said, and what Stooben Rooben said at your talk page. - {{User|Edofenrir}} | |||
'''Redstar''': as an administrator, i '''order''' you to drop this. If you continue this you '''will''' get a warning. Thanks and have a nice day. {{user|Tucayo}} | |||
:You're ordering me to drop something that happened six hours ago? >_> [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 21:38, 5 December 2009 (EST) | |||
::Yes, '''I AM'''. {{user|Tucayo}} | |||
:::Why is that even necessary? I've been here for the entirety of those six hours, so it should be obvious it was already discontinued. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 21:46, 5 December 2009 (EST) | |||
::::Because there is no reason i could know you were here all that time. {{user|Tucayo}} | |||
:::::The Recent changes page says which users are currently online. I'm currently online, and have been for six hours. Six hours have passed since the last comment on this page. Quite obviously, I had no intention of responding. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 21:52, 5 December 2009 (EST) | |||
::::::Just a little pointer for everyone before this discussion is ended for good: The user list at the recent changes sometimes acts buggy and does not always acurately display who is online at that time. It's not the best source. - {{user|Edofenrir}} | |||
@luigi-board: Would you mind expanding your reason a little? You're either entirely for it, or entirely against. Any modifications should be handled in the Comments, which I can consider for modifying the proposal. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 15:39, 7 December 2009 (EST) | |||
:Sheesh you guys like to argue with each other! Maybe we should put a limit on how long a proposals comments section should be, since someone is making them way longer than they should be. All this about whose vote is good or not. Half the comments aren't even for the said proposal! {{User|FunkyK38}} | |||
You can't modify a proposal that's more than 3 days old. {{user|Twentytwofiftyseven}} | |||
:Alright, thanks for telling me. | |||
:And @ WaluigiGuy: I appreciate your support, but your suggestions are a little ''too'' extreme, in my opinion. Some of those should be merged, but to different articles, I think. If this passes, we'll at least discuss some of those before doing anything about them, okay? Until then, can I ask you to make your reason more in line with accepting the examples already given? I don't feel too comfortable being supported if it directly extends to other articles. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 21:11, 7 December 2009 (EST) | |||
Would anyone be willing to change their vote in favor of this proposal if I were to remove Tubba Blubba's Heart and Bowser??? from this list? Please realize these are only ''examples'', so they're not immediately meant to be put into action if the proposal were to pass anyways. They're only meant to give an impression of what I meant this proposal to accomplish, though I now feel the two above don't meet that standard so I'm willing to cut them. For Edo specifically, this protects from his fear of Magnus Von Grapple and similar being merged. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 22:25, 9 December 2009 (EST) | |||
:According to proposal rules you are not allowed to edit/delete a proposal after three days of proposing it...just sayin' {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
::Yes, but I didn't modify the proposal. That was a list of ''examples''. The proposal itself is intact, while those examples were never meant to be affected by the proposal. They were just there to illustrate what sort of articles the proposal would affect. I realized that the two I just removed don't follow the standard of what I'd intended for the proposal, so I cut them. Nothing has changed, really. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] | |||
:::I wonder if people realize they could just make <nowiki>[[User:Username/Proposal]] and then type {{User:Username/Proposal}}</nowiki> onto the page and then they will be able to edit the proposal at any given time. I realize that you did not change the proposal, I'm just stating the rules as they are listed. Listen to them or not - even if you have ultimate reasoning - I will still say the rule. I'm not trying to challenge you or the proposal in any way, I'm just saying it how it is. {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
::::I'm not exactly sure what either of those would do. Sorry for my ignorance of what you're explaining... As for my proposal, the proposal and what it intends to do hasn't been changed at all, only some of the examples accompanying it that contradicted the proposal. If a sysop disagrees, they can re-add them with an explanation why. {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
Redstar: When you type the name of a user space with <nowiki>{{}}</nowiki> then the content of that page is copied onto the page you're editing. {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
:I don't really see the use in that. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] | |||
::It's how everyone uses their signatures around here (that or <nowiki>{{User|Username}}</nowiki>) {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
::It's simply easier to type out four tildes than to write that every single time. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] | |||
:::Yeah, but if everyone has signatures, the backgrounds and images make it hard for people with older computers to load the page, especially if the sigs aren't coded properly. An extra second of typing one's signature means mintues less of loading time for many other people, so in the grand scheme of things, it's actually easier to write the whole thing out every single time. - {{User|Walkazo}} | |||
Redstar: If you want further information, [[User talk:Marioguy1|my talk page]] is open. Anyhow, back to the proposal - would anybody change their vote now that Redstar has removed Tubba Blubba's Heart and Bowser? {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
::::Nope. I know it's just a suggestion, Redstar, but I still am opposed to the wide scope of possibly effected articles. I think this should be done on an article by article basis. {{user|Bloc Partier}} | |||
@Waluigi Guy: Most of the articles you suggested to merge weren't even stubs... {{User|Lemmy Koopa Fan}} | |||
---- | |||
===Make a Limit for the Length of Comments on this page=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|5-12|leave as is}} | |||
Okay, I know I'm not the only one who's noticed this, but I'm going to be the one to do something about it. The proposal comments have gotten ridiculous. Comments aren't supposed to be these insanely long paragraphs that argue with what the other users may say. It takes a long time to scroll down all the comments, and then it's hard to even find where one proposal starts and one ends (At least that's the impression I get)! And it's just missing the point when half the comments in the section are not even about the said proposal! | |||
Here's what I want to do about it: | |||
*I'm not trying to silence other users who have a short and sweet opinion, but I want the users who drag it out too much to STOP. Comments should not be whole paragraphs like the ones above. I want to reduce the length to, let's say, 4 to 6 sentences. | |||
*Comments that have nothing to do with the proposal should be deleted. This includes arguments about deleting votes. That stuff should be done on Talk Pages. | |||
'''Proposer:''' {{User|FunkyK38}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline:''' Monday, Dec. 14, 2009 (8:00 EST) | |||
====Shorten Comments==== | |||
#{{User|FunkyK38}} -Per me above. | |||
#{{User|Fawfulfury65}} I completely agree with Funky!!! Removing votes comments belong on talk pages! The comments section should only be for questions and answers, and just stuff that won't make huge conversations/arguments. | |||
#{{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}} I think those ridiculously long comments that act like walls of text should get removed. If a user wants to make a point, he/she should at least make it short, but clear. I also dislike when comments take up like, half the proposal page. | |||
#{{User|Vini64}} "''I think those ridiculously long comments that act like walls of text should get removed.''" - This says all. :P | |||
#{{User|Baby Mario Bloops}} - Yes, some users can write what they thing, and forget. They literally can be writing a short novel for all we know about a thought that have. If we want to make it long, do it on the proposer's talk page or this talk page (that is why we have it!). | |||
====Leave as is==== | |||
#{{User|Time Q}}: Sorry, but this proposal is ridiculous. If there's much to discuss about a proposal, you can't just suppress that. If certain users tend to write overly long and off-topic comments, kindly tell them. But a general rule is really pointless. | |||
#{{User|Walkazo}} - There are plenty of good reasons why long, wordy debates can be held in the Comments sections, and they often lead to improvements of the original proposal, better understanding of ideas, and more developments down the road. As Time Q already explained, Users (and especially Administrators, who are charged with policing this and any other discussion pages) already have the right to ask for off-topic or inflammatory discussions to be taken elsewhere or ended all together, so this proposal would only add restrictions to the meaningful comments. | |||
#{{User|4DJONG}} As Time Q and Walkazo have already explained, this proposal is point less because long comments can explain more than 4 to 6 sentences could while being grammatically correct. | |||
#{{User|LeftyGreenMario}} I won't like this proposal to pass because sometimes long comments are useful and necessary. I don't like long meaningless comments though, so until the proposer changes the wording (such as "remove unnecessary long comments"), I am opposing this. | |||
#{{User|Marioguy1}} - Fraid I'm gonna have to agree. No limiting comments as some comments must be long to get a user's point across if they are trying to point something out. We already have people who think we're too strict thanks to the no-sig policy. Imagine what they say if we limit the amount of sentences you can add to the page! Per Thyme Que. | |||
#{{User|Redstar}} - I don't necessarily feel things should be "left as is", but I do oppose this proposal. An alternative should be considered. | |||
#{{user|Bloc Partier}} -- Per Time Q. Ridiculous proposal. | |||
#{{User|Super Mario Bros.}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Stooben Rooben}} - Per Time Q and Walkazo. | |||
#{{user|Coincollector}} - I'm not an user who likes to make speeches on discussions, but I know that limiting an user's arguments is unfair and incorrect. As for out-of-topic comments on proposals, any user can stop these discussions by sending an advice on them, avoiding confusions for other readers and conflicts out of place. | |||
#{{User|Doopliss_rocks}} - Per Coincollector | |||
#{{User|Supermariofan14}} - Yup. Ridiculous. | |||
====Comments==== | |||
Hmm... I don't know if limiting the comments to four to six sentences is the right solution... Though I fully agree with you that the comment sections have gotten very long and hard to overlook. I will think about this for a while. - {{User|Edofenrir}} | |||
:Well, I suppose I could change that to "not making it a huge arguement" like FF65 said above... If enough users feel that way I can change it. {{User|FunkyK38}} | |||
::I don't think a limit is necessary, since sometimes length is necessary to elaborate on a point. I would approve moving all Comments to respective sections on the Talk page, or a specific "MarioWiki: Proposals/Comments" page, however. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 21:13, 7 December 2009 (EST) | |||
I always thought that separate sub-pages were a good idea. I brought it up on the talk page a long time ago, but I guess it fell through. {{User|Knife}} | |||
How about a show/hide tag? Or a scrollbox? {{user|Tucayo}} | |||
:I don't think so on the show/hide tag (reason being is that I mysteriously see all the answers on the 'Shroom and it says click here to show answers. I think it's something to do with my extension), but I think it should be like on the Archives section where all proposals are on scrollboxes. {{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}} | |||
Imposing character limits on comments just seems to go too far. My idea for a /Comments page work, but a show/hide tag, as suggested by Tucayo, is quick and easy as well. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 10:28, 8 December 2009 (EST) | |||
The administrative staff will probably make a change to the proposal organization, so this proposal probably isn't necessary. {{User|Knife}} | |||
---- | |||
===Allow Support Votes to be Removed on Nomination Pages?=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|4-6|no removing support votes}} | |||
For this proposal, I think that users should be able to vote for the removal of support votes on FA nomination pages. I mean, we can vote to remove oppose votes, but what about support votes! Users might support articles to become featured because they like that certain character that was nominated or they might not make a good reason on why they supported. Other users should have the right to choose on to delete those or not. | |||
So, here's how it would go: Users can vote on if they want to remove a support votes or not. If three users, including an admin, support for the removal of that vote, we can delete it. Good, right? | |||
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Fawfulfury65}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline:''' Wednesday, Dec. 16, 2009 (5:00 EST) | |||
====Be able to remove support votes==== | |||
#{{User|Fawfulfury65}} Per above. | |||
#{{User|Marioguy1}} - I suppose we must trust our sysops (though I don't know why it doesn't extend to '''all''' admins) to make the right decision in the end as that ''is'' why they were promoted, per Fawful Phew Ree65. | |||
#{{User|LeftyGreenMario}} I still see some supports that sound a lot like fan votes, but maybe the SYSOPs are little slow in deleting fan votes. Some other support votes sound like fan votes but with the word "article" instead of the character's name in it. | |||
#{{User|Reversinator}}I've seen a lot of support votes that say "oh i love *insert character here*!" when we're supposed to give a good reason. | |||
====Leave as is==== | |||
#{{user|Tucayo}} - I think our current policy is fine. | |||
#{{User|Stooben Rooben}} - Per Tucayo. Besides, the oppose votes are really what keep a page from getting features, not support votes. | |||
#{{User|Time Q}}: I do NOT think our current policy is fine, since the proposal has passed that allowed admins to remove support votes. So of course I don't agree with this proposal either. I explained a thousand of times why removing support votes is pointless, and I'm tired of doing it again and again. Please read my reasons [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/16#Change FA removal of votes rules|here]]. In short: Support votes do no harm, and no, they should NOT be treated the same as oppose votes, since they serve a totally different purpose. Opposers need to state what is wrong about an article, but supporters CANNOT state what is "good" about an article without reciting the [[MarioWiki:Featured Articles#Featured Article Standards|FA requirements]], which would be pointless and redundant. | |||
#{{user|Bloc Partier}} -- I can't think of any reason an admin would ever agree to remove a support, but still, the idea behind this proposal is pointless. Oppose votes are really the only ones that matter. Per Time Q. | |||
#{{User|Redstar}} - If the reasoning Time Q provided, that an article cannot be featured without complete support, then I don't see a reason to change it now. Just make that a bit more clear or obvious. | |||
#{{User|T.c.w7468}} Per Time Q, and, as I stated before in the comments of a previous proposal, I am in support of removing any vote description, while keeping the vote intact (thereby leaving the name of the supporter), I do not see anything wrong with the actual vote. The reason is that I think the main issue is not the vote itself, but rather the unattractiveness and clutter the reasons attached with the vote, therefore I think the reasons can be removed, but not the vote itself, as it would probably cause anger to those who put in the vote. (Do you guys think I should create a proposal with these terms? :)) | |||
====Comments==== | |||
Well, we already have that rule that the most blatantly annoying votes (aka fan votes) can be removed from the support section. I cannot think of another kind of vote that would be useless enough to justify its removal. I don't think this rule change is necessary, since support votes are basically useless after the nomination got five of them. Can you provide an example of a vote you'd like to remove? - {{User|Edofenrir}} | |||
Well, supports shouldn't be moved for fan votes only. When people oppose and just say something like "this is a terrible article" with no reason why, people can vote to remove that, but if someone supports saying something like "this is a great article!" why can't users vote to remove that? All votes that don't give a reason on why they supported and think the article is great really should be removed... {{User|Fawfulfury65}} | |||
@Marioguy1: By all admins, you're saying sysops and patrollers, right? I'll change that I guess. I really want this to be like removing oppose votes. {{User|Fawfulfury65}} | |||
Uh, you know people this days may load up the support with fan votes and we may get into a huge mess just trying to remove one at a time. But I do agree that "this article is good" isn't enough. In that case, some people may think many grammar errors are ok, but others think it is horrible. {{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}} | |||
Fawful: Yes, that is what I mean - Admins=Sysop, Patroller, Bcrat, that other rank... {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
:@MG1 - Whether or not all ranks of admins can have the same privilages seems to be outside the power of proposals, so I'd take that up elsewhere. | |||
:@Stooben - Just because an article is nominated doesn't mean it should be featured just because. Removal of oppose votes protects an article from not being featured for baseless reasons, but what if the article is supported for baseless reasons and doesn't deserve to be featured? We need to protect the honor of what a featured article means just as much as the process of getting to it. If the article truly deserves it, then a removal of supports privilege won't change anything. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 01:19, 10 December 2009 (EST) | |||
::I don't know if you are used to the wiki's FA nomination system rules yet, so I better explain them. Unlike the Proposal page, the ratio of support and opposal votes actually doesn't matter, they don't affect each other. Support votes have only any impact on the nomination as long as there are less than five. If the amount of support votes meets five, the nomination becomes valid and the article will be featured after a set amount of time. However, if someone opposes the nomination, the whole process becomes stalled. The article will then not be featured until the pointed-out flaws are rectified. The opposal vote is then removed. Because of this, one single opposal vote is able to outnumber all given support votes, and this is why opposal votes are watched much more strictly than support votes, or at least that's how I was told about it. We had a Proposal about removing fan votes some time ago and I am glad it passed, but I think this is as far as we can go... - {{User|Edofenrir}} | |||
I vote for the removal of Reversinator's vote since unlike what he says, supporters of an FA nomination are NOT supposed to give reasons for their vote. {{User|Time Q}} | |||
:Ok, I dont want another discussion, but TimeQ, if they do not give any reason at all they will be removed... {{user|Tucayo}} | |||
::Well, under the current rules that were enforced by the proposal I linked above, any admin can arbitrarily remove votes they don't like (well, in the wording of the proposal, those that "do anything but help", but who is to judge what falls under that description?). There is NO rule stating that every support vote needs to have a "good reason", as Reversinator puts it. {{User|Time Q}} | |||
:::Any support vote should at least refer to the article it supports. I think this doesn't ask for too much. And now let's please end this discussion. It was started one time too often. - {{User|Edofenrir}} | |||
::::I certainly won't end the discussion, as we're here to do just that: discuss the matter. {{User|Time Q}} | |||
:::::Yes, exactly. We are here to discuss the matter. The matter that is listed above, not the matter of something else. I tried to prevent the discussion from going off-topic. If you want the discussion to derail though, then go ahead ;3 {{User|Edofenrir}} | |||
::::::Sorry, I misunderstood you then. You're right that this isn't exactly the topic of the proposal. But it's a very similar discussion (what are support votes worth, what are oppose votes worth, etc.). {{User|Time Q}} | |||
Ok, I dont plan to argue again :)You can make a proposal to revert that, or even veto it... {{user|Tucayo}} | |||
:I might propose to revert it sometime, but of course I won't veto it. Obviously there's no consensus among the admins, so I wouldn't even be allowed to. {{User|Time Q}} | |||
T.c.w7468: I somehow like your idea, since there's indeed no real point in giving a reason when supporting a FA nomination. But I don't know if the reasons are that much of a problem really. {{User|Time Q}} | |||
:I like it a lot. It does remove more clutter, I think. Perhaps a rule that only the first five supports must have reasons? Since those are the only ones that really ''need'' to count anyway. I dunno, just a suggestion. {{user|Bloc Partier}} | |||
---- | |||
===Split the colored enemies=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|1-10|do not split}} | |||
It has come to my attention that while articles for each of the differently colored Yoshis exist, other colored variations of enemies, such as Toads and Shy Guys, do not. I know there's exeptions, but ignore those. Anyways, I ask this one question: why? For the Yoshis, there is very rarely a difference between them, as with the rest, yet they still get articles. If they get articles, so should the other characters. | |||
So I'd like to see some character articles be created. | |||
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Reversinator}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline:''' Wednesday, Dec. 23, 2009 (5:00 EST) | |||
====Create articles for colored characters==== | |||
#{{User|Reversinator}} What I said above. | |||
====Leave as it is==== | |||
#{{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}} The Yoshis get their very own artwork and some get their very own, distinguishable stats such as Super Mario World, Mario Super Sluggers, and Yoshi's Story. The Yellow Yoshi article even had a personality section and some colored Yoshis have notable Yoshis. The other colored characters that are not Toad or Yoshi do not have distinguishable traits other than the color. | |||
#{{User|Gamefreak75}} In Yoshi's Story the Black and White Yoshi like chilis while the others dont and per BLOF. | |||
#{{User|Marioguy1}} - Are there ''significant'' differences between the different color Toads? I don' think so, the Yoshis have many differences, per BLOF. | |||
#{{User|Redstar}} - Each differently-colored Yoshi has a different ability, which implies they are all varieties or sub-species of some sort. Different color for other species rarely means anything, so they shouldn't merit their own article unless they are as different as the Yoshi are. I do, however, while we're on the subject, feel the differently-colored species of other races should be merged within their main article. No difference besides skin color/clothing color, no need for own article. | |||
#{{User|Walkazo}} - We don't have enough information on differently coloured members of other species to create decent articles: all we'd be left with is hundreds of mostly speculatively-named stubs that essentially say the same thing ("X Y is a X coloured Y appearing in Z games."). At least differently coloured Yoshis have slightly different abilities, but then again, so might Birdos (depending on whether or not ''[[Super Mario Bros. 2]]'' featured one recurring, colour-changing Birdo or many individuals - that's not entirely clear in itself), so I can see where this proposal's coming from. However, if a change has to be made, I say merging is the better option. | |||
#{{User|Grandy02}} - Per all. It needs to be decided on a case-by-case basis. | |||
#{{User|Time Q}}: Per all. | |||
#{{User|Stooben Rooben}} - Per all. | |||
#{{User|FunkyK38}} - Per you guys. Multicolored Toads and Shyguys don't have much difference from each other (Hope that makes sense), while the Yoshis had a whole game dedicated to them. Those articles would be stubs anyways. | |||
#{{User|Ralphfan}} – Per all. | |||
====Comments==== | |||
@BLOF: In the Baseball games, tons of other colored characters appeared, all with different stats, so that's null and void. With Yellow Yoshi, it describes him as brave, but aren't all of them? All right, the hungriness of them is ok, but how about other Yoshi? You know, the ones that don't have any significant differences between them, such as [[Brown Yoshi]], [[Light Blue Yoshi]], [[Pink Yoshi]], [[Purple Yoshi]] and [[Orange Yoshi]]? Very few differences between them. | |||
@GF75: That information can easily be merged with the article. "All the Yoshis in Yoshi's Story posess the ability to eat the food and enemies in its path, although Black Yoshi and White Yoshi are able to eat Spiky Fruits, Peppers and Black Shy Guys". Of course, it'd be a lot more detailed. | |||
@MG1: It varies between games. Also, what about the Yoshis I mentioned above? | |||
@Redstar: Again, what about the Yoshis I mentioned above? {{User|Reversinator}} | |||
:I'm sorry, but I don't know how I'm supposed to vote. Your proposal is about two things: merging the Yoshi pages and/or creating individual articles for differently-colored species. I think you should revise your proposal so I know if I'm voting for one thing or two things. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 09:33, 17 December 2009 (EST) | |||
::All right. {{User|Reversinator}} | |||
:::I almost want to support merging all the different Yoshi colors to the [[Yoshi (species)]] article, but there's just so much much information that I couldn't bear cutting it to make it fit. I'm going to have to continue opposing unless you can provide a specific example of a differently-colored species that has enough differences between them attributable to their color that would warrant splitting. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 10:37, 17 December 2009 (EST) | |||
This proposal is pretty vague. If you give specific examples, it would be much more clear as to which exact articles you want split. {{user|Bloc Partier}} | |||
Reversinator: Yes, the different colored enemies did have different stats, but it's only in the baseball games. Same thing goes for Pink and Light Blue Yoshi, because they have distinguishable stats only in the baseball games as well. However, Red, Blue, and Yellow Yoshi have different stats in other games such as Super Mario World, and all Yoshis have likes and dislikes of fruit in Yoshi's Story. We can't merge just Pink, Brown, Orange, Purple and Light Blue Yoshi because this breaks consistency. {{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}} | |||
:There's a million different Shy Guy colors and some only appear once. For example, here's an article that will be created if the proposal were to pass: | |||
'''Cyan Shy Guy''' | |||
The Cyan Shy Guy is a cyan colored [[Shy Guy]] (obviously) that only appears in ''[[Mario Kart Wii]]'' as an audience member. | |||
Then the stub template will be placed here. | |||
It doesn't make sense. | |||
{{User|Gamefreak75}} | |||
---- | |||
===Rules and Regulations for Specific-Article Proposals=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|0-11-0|link to talk page proposals on mariowiki:proposals}} | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|7-0|amend rules for talk page proposals}} | |||
Since {{user|Redstar}} has (perhaps unintentionally) brought up the issue of proposals on specific pages (see [[Talk:Earth Crystal]] or [[Talk:Straw]]) and {{user|Walkazo}} has said that "talk page 'proposals' do have a habit of going unnoticed for months," I thought that a specific set of rules and regulations pertaining to talk page proposals. I'll give you a few ideas of what we could do, my solution, and then multiple options for voting. | |||
We need a specific name for these proposals. I propose (no pun intended... really) "talk page proposals." I am open to other suggestions, but this is the name that I will use. | |||
I believe that these talk page proposals should get at least some mention to the whole userbase via this article (MarioWiki:Proposals) or a page linked to it (possibly MarioWiki:Proposals/Talk Page Proposals). This page will link to all pending talk page proposals and explain the rules of talk page proposals. | |||
Which leads to the most important part of this proposal: the rules. Now, I will give you all my rules for these pages; in my opinion they are fair and better for their purpose. Here they are: | |||
#All rules for talk page proposals are kept the same as mainspace proposals, with the exceptions made by Rules 2 & 3. | |||
#Voting in talk page proposals will be open for two weeks, not one. | |||
#Talk page proposals may closed by the proposer if both the support ''and'' the oppose sides have fewer than five votes. | |||
#The talk page proposal '''must''' pertain to the article it is posted on. (Sounds like a dumb rule, but it's best not to have loopholes.) | |||
#After two weeks, a clear majority of three votes is required. Without the majority, the talk page proposal will be listed as "NO QUORUM." | |||
The format for the listing of talk page proposals should be as {{user|Walkazo}}'s example below. | |||
If you vote to create a specific place for talk page proposals, you are also supporting the following three things: | |||
#Eliminate "Splits & Merges" section on [[MarioWiki:Proposals|this page]]. | |||
#Use "talk page proposals" to split and merge articles. | |||
#Have the templates {{tem|merge to}}, {{tem|merge from}} and <nowiki>{{Split}}</nowiki> used on the articles to display a talk page proposal on the article. | |||
As you can see in the voting section, I have given you a few options. Each should be explained sufficiently, but, if it is not, I will try my best to help you understand. | |||
Note: Only if Part 1 passes will Part 2 be viable. | |||
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Bloc Partier}} with additions from {{user|Walkazo}}, {{user|Redstar}}, and {{user|Marioguy1}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline:''' December 25, 2009, 20:00 | |||
====Part 1: Link to Talk Page Proposals==== | |||
=====Do Not Link to Talk Page Proposals on Any Specific Page===== | |||
=====Link to Talk Page Proposals on MarioWiki:Proposals===== | |||
#{{User|Walkazo}} - It seems excessive to create a whole sub-page for a handful of rules and a bulleted list of links and small descriptions (assuming we format the list similar to the way I showcased in the General Comments below). It'd be easier to just create a new "Talk Page Proposals" section after "How To" with two sub-sections: one for the rules and one for the list. Also, people don't always bother with sub-pages, so this would ensure the list does get seen. | |||
#{{User|Edofenrir}} - Per Walkazo. | |||
#{{user|Bloc Partier}} - Per Walkazo, as long as MG1's addition is agreed to be added at some point. | |||
#{{User|Supermariofan14}} - Per Walkazo, too. | |||
#{{User|Marioguy1}} - Per BP :P | |||
#{{user|Redstar}} - Wonderful proposal. Supports everything I'm trying to do here. | |||
#{{User|Ralphfan}} – Per all. | |||
#{{User|Stooben Rooben}} — Per BP. | |||
#{{user|Tucayo}} - Changed vote, again. I support JUST if we make it like the example 22 did. | |||
#{{User|Cobold}} - per all. | |||
#{{User|Gamefreak75}} Per all. | |||
=====Link to Talk Page Proposals on a Sub-page: "MarioWiki:Proposals/Talk Page Proposals"===== | |||
=====Part 1 Comments===== | |||
@Walkazo: I'm not sure if it would be a sub-page at all. The proposal is still new, so perhaps we could discuss it and Bloc could add a third option? New page, sub-page, and right here on this page... I would prefer the first option, since it would give equal attention to this general proposal page, though you're right. If the list were formatted as you've done (which I think is the best means of presenting the information), it probably wouldn't merit a page of its own, though I'm still wary of how and where it would be placed here without being ignored or taking up too much room. Discussion, I suppose. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 22:07, 18 December 2009 (EST) | |||
:"MarioWiki:Proposals/Talk Page Proposals" is a sub-page. Also, we don't want to create too many options - that spreads the support votes rather thinly, whereas the outright opposers only have one option and could defeat the proposal even if the ''total'' number of supporters is greater. - {{User|Walkazo}} | |||
::Good point. I'll wait until Bloc puts in his thoughts, see if he revises anything. May change my vote over then. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 23:20, 18 December 2009 (EST) | |||
:::Yeah, it would be a sub-page. Marioguy1 gave me a great idea on my talk page; I'll copy and paste it here. | |||
#Eliminate "Splits & Merges" section on [[MarioWiki:Proposals|this page]]. | |||
#Use "talk page proposals" to split and merge articles. | |||
#Have the templates {{tem|merge to}}, {{tem|merge from}} and <nowiki>{{Split}}</nowiki> used on the articles to display a talk page proposal on the article. | |||
#I can wire something up that will automatically update the proposals page where you list all of this (no matter where you list it) with all the new talk page proposals. | |||
:::This would format it perfectly. We could replace the Splits & Merges header with either of the options above (Link to "MarioWiki:Proposals/Talk Page Proposals" or put the list right under the header), and it would regulate the practice of S&M's much more. With all this discussion, I'll revise the proposal while I still can. I'd just like to see your thoughts on MG1's stuff first. {{user|Bloc Partier}} | |||
::::I like MG1's stuff for some reason :P {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
As you can see [[User:Twentytwofiftyseven/Test|here]], 2257 has wired up a list of all things with {{tem|merge to}} and what they are to be merged to {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
:Just for the record, how will these talk page proposals be archived? {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
::Probably how we're already doing it: simply moving the discussion to the new page with notice tags on the top and bottom, as seen on the Elemental Crystals talk page: [[Talk:Elemental Crystals]]. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 01:14, 24 December 2009 (EST) | |||
====Part 2: Rules==== | |||
=====Use Bloc Partier's Rules===== | |||
#{{user|Bloc Partier}} - Per me. | |||
#{{user|Tucayo}} - Per BP | |||
#{{user|Redstar}} - Per BP | |||
#{{User|Ralphfan}} – Per BP. | |||
#{{User|Stooben Rooben}} — Per BP. | |||
#{{User|Cobold}} - considering that talk pages are not as easy to monitor than the Proposals page, the extra time is helpful. Also we shouldn't decide merges by just one vote more or less. | |||
#{{User|Gamefreak75}} PEr all. | |||
=====Use MarioWiki:Proposals' Rules (No amendments)===== | |||
=====Part 2 Comments===== | |||
Can you elaborate on your second rule? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 19:40, 18 December 2009 (EST) | |||
:No putting a proposal to merge Mario with Luigi (don't ask me why I chose these two) on the Bowser page {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
::That's the third rule, I believe. I should clarify: I meant the rule headed under the third bullet (the first bullet doesn't seem to be describing a rule, so not sure why it's there). [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 19:50, 18 December 2009 (EST) | |||
:::To clear up confusion, I numbered them and removed the specific bit. And now to answer your question: actually, the addition was somewhat arbitrary on my part. I sort of thought that since the proposer may change their mind or give up, they should have the power to delete their proposal. I dunno, just my thought process. What if I added a bit that says "...may delete their proposal if both the support and the oppose sides have fewer than five votes"? Oh, and I feel like I should add that if you (or any other users reading this) have a different suggestion for rules, just post them on my talk page and I'll put them right into the proposal with a new option for voting. {{user|Bloc Partier}} | |||
::::I would prefer that amendment. If a proposal was per only an individual user's whim or personal taste, than it probably doesn't hold any merit. Even if they don't agree with it anymore, that doesn't change the fact it still garnered discussion and votes. If, however, the votes are fewer than five (three sounds better to me), then the proposal probably is something worth ignoring and not an important issue, so I would say the proposer should be allowed to delete, or, better yet, "close" the proposal. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 20:13, 18 December 2009 (EST) | |||
:::::Great suggestion. I'll go add it right now. {{user|Bloc Partier}} | |||
I may be too late to ask for an addition, but perhaps a rule on "clear majority rule"? If the given two weeks have passed, and no attention has been given to an individual article's proposal save the proposer's vote, that should not be counted as "majority in favor", and the proposer should '''not''' be allowed to act under that impression. While I'm not sure how many votes are fair enough to be counted for "significant attention to implement the proposal", three sounds fair because it's the lowest amount of votes needed to arrive at a majority-difference (two-to-one for either support or oppose). Thoughts? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 02:28, 20 December 2009 (EST) | |||
:::::::Hmmm... Yes, good idea. I think I should be allowed to add it, it hasn't been three days since posting it yet. {{user|Bloc Partier}} | |||
Just create <nowiki>{{User:Bloc Partier/Proposal}}</nowiki> and then use that; it's an easy way to edit forever :P {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
:True... But it wouldn't be official lol. {{user|Bloc Partier}} | |||
::What I mean is, make that page and then on this page type <nowiki>{{User:Block Partier/Proposal}}</nowiki> - when they want to archive it they just have to copy/paste the coding from that page and you can edit it all the time (loopholes for all rules :P) {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
:::Wow... That's pretty tricky. I kinda like it. But... I could potentially lose votes because of it. {{user|Bloc Partier}} | |||
@Cobold: From what I'm reading in Bloc's rules, a three vote-difference is needed to determine a majority-ruling. My previous suggestion seems to have been misinterpreted, but done so in a way that the presumed rule actually kills two birds with one stone. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 06:58, 23 December 2009 (EST) | |||
:Your previous suggestion about what, where, when? I just read Bloc's rules and voted for them. I did not have the time to read lengthly discussions about it. What do you want to tell me, that what I said isn't covered by Bloc's rules? - {{User|Cobold}} | |||
::@Redstar: Ah, my bad. Is that a good thing? {{user|Bloc Partier}} | |||
:::Yeah. Like I said, the rule you put down covers two things rather than my initial one. I was about to suggest it, actually, but it worked out in the end. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 17:34, 23 December 2009 (EST) | |||
::::Oh, good. Just making sure. {{user|Bloc Partier}} | |||
====General Comments==== | |||
Hmmm... This is a bit confusing. Oh well. If anyone needs help, I'd love to assist. Just ask. {{user|Bloc Partier}} | |||
:This proposal is allowed...{{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
Since Redstar's proposal is gone, here's a version of his list of pages that need attention. It's organized so that all the pages concerned have a bit of background info (except the Merging pages, since we've talked about them to death already and I'm feeling lazy right now; I don't understand the Yoshi baby one, so I couldn't talk about that one either). All the pages concerned are linked to, with the page who's page contains the proposal in bold. In the future, I think it would be best if the proposals were staged on a common page (i.e. [[Culex]] instead of one of the Crystals, seeing as they're all going into his page; the major articles' talk pages also have a higher likelihood of getting read than the more minor aspects). There should also be a note in the rules that the proposals shouldn't be staged on redirect talk pages, since they'll ''never'' get read in that case (it's a pretty "well, duh" rule, but Bloc Partier was right to make sure we minimize loopholes by stating the obvious as much as possible). | |||
*Merge '''[[Crystal Bit]]''' with [[Crystal King]]. | |||
*Mere '''[[Straw]]''' with [[Durmite]]. | |||
*Merge '''[[Tuff Puff]]''' with [[Huff N' Puff]]. | |||
*Merge [[Lava Piranha]] substituents with the parent plant. | |||
**'''[[Lava Bud]]''' | |||
**'''[[Petit Piranha]]''' | |||
*Merge '''[[Tubba Blubba's Heart]]''' with [[Tubba Blubba]] | |||
*Split '''[[Blue Toad]]''' into an article concerning only the blue Toad in ''New Super Mario Bros. Wii'', with information concerning any other blue Toads being moved into [[Toad (species)]]. | |||
*Split '''[[Yellow Toad]]''' into an article concerning only the yellow Toad in ''New Super Mario Bros. Wii'', with information concerning any other yellow Toads being moved into [[Toad (species)]]. | |||
*Merge [[Baby Yoshi]] into the [[Yoshi (species)]] article per previous proposal on differences between "baby" and "infant" characters/stages. | |||
*Reorganize Metal pages. | |||
**Merge '''[[Metal Wario]]''' with [[Metal Mario]]. | |||
**Split '''[[Metal Mario]]''' into two pages: one concerns Metal forms in general, such as those appearing in the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series and [[Metal Wario]] from ''Super Mario 64 DS''; the other concerns the character, Metal Mario. The final titles of these pages has yet to be determined. | |||
- {{User|Walkazo}} | |||
:Would you mind if I expand on the descriptions myself, since I'm aware as to what the purpose of each is? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 22:00, 18 December 2009 (EST) | |||
::Be my guest =) I still get to fix any wording or gammar I see fit after you make your additions, though. - {{User|Walkazo}} | |||
:::I believe that covers it more specifically. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 23:16, 18 December 2009 (EST) | |||
::::I reorganized the Metal Mario stuff to make it a bit more clear and succinct; between the naming issues and Metal Wario, however, I think that particular situation is muddled enough to merit a full-on proposal. That way, the discussion can be started fresh in a single location, and be sure to garner attention. Talk Page Proposals really should be limited to basic yes/no decisions on matters that are significant enough to require multiple users' approval before any action is taken. - {{User|Walkazo}} | |||
:::::I've been leaning towards that myself. I'll put together a general proposal that trims how muddy that one is, cutting it down to the basic one of Metal Wario being merged into it. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 23:44, 18 December 2009 (EST) | |||
I may be a little late, but I love the format, Walkazo. Also, I edited a new "rule" in. {{user|Bloc Partier}} | |||
NOTICE TO ALL WHO HAVE ALREADY VOTED: I have added a few things to the body of the proposal. Please review these edits and revise your vote if you wish to do so. Thank you. {{user|Bloc Partier}} | |||
Will the proposals concerning merging that were set up before this proposal was created have to be extended another week, or will they occupy a "grandfather's clause" of sorts and be allowed to end as voted? [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 03:59, 26 December 2009 (EST) | |||
---- | |||
===Categories: List of Implied ...=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|16-0|delete categories}} | |||
I propose that the following rategories be removed without replacement: | |||
*[[:Category:List of Implied Characters]] | |||
*[[:Category:List of Implied Entertainment]] | |||
*[[:Category:List of Implied Events]] | |||
*[[:Category:List of Implied Items]] | |||
*[[:Category:List of Implied Locations]] | |||
*[[:Category:List of Implied Organizations]] | |||
*[[:Category:List of Implied People]] | |||
*[[:Category:List of Implied Species]] | |||
Here are my reasons: | |||
#Each of those categories has only one article entry total, the respective [[List of Implied Characters]] etc. It doesn't look like those lists need to have their very own category each. They can just have both [[:Category:Implied]] and [[:Category:Lists]]. | |||
#Some have subcategories. Those subcategories are [[:Category:Implied Characters]] etc. I don't see how those can be categorised as "List of ..." because an implied character is not a list. Just remove the List category and add [[:Category:Implied]], as above. | |||
So overall I see no reason for them to exist. They have no possible entries. If you want to categorize the redirects, [[:Category:Implied Characters]] is the way to go, but this is pointless. | |||
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Cobold}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline:''' Saturday, December 26th, 2009, 20:00 EST | |||
====Support Removal==== | |||
#{{User|Cobold}} - per above. | |||
#{{User|Edofenrir}} - Per Cobold. I think I understood what the meaning behind this categories is, but I also think that this sort of organization is not necessary. | |||
#{{User|Baby Mario Bloops}} - Per all stated above! | |||
#{{User|Dry Paratroopa}} - Oh definitely. | |||
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Per Cobold. Each list does not need a category unto itself, and categorizing the redirects going to that list is equally pointless because the list page's Table of Contents already works as a built-in index to these subjects. | |||
#{{user|Tucayo}} - Per Cobold. | |||
#{{User|Stooben Rooben}} - Per Cobold. | |||
#{{User|Marioguy1}} - This is like a merge :D, Per Co-Bald | |||
#{{user|Coincollector}} - since implied elements' info are being gathered into single articles, using these categories is, therefore, unnecessary. | |||
#{{User|Vellidragon}} - Per all. | |||
#{{User|Ralphfan}} – These implied things are rarely even mentioned; why do we need them? | |||
#{{User|GigaMetalLuigi}} - Support removal of Implied Characters, Entertainment, Items, Locations, People. Honestly, if the main category already has these already mentioned and covers it in the main article then no need to post it again on another page, just a waste of space. | |||
#{{User|Gamefreak75}} PEr Cobold. | |||
#{{User|Zero777}} I am Zero! We are a wiki not a wikia so the categories should be removed and put into one category; there is only one implies location, character, events, etc. Zero signing out. | |||
#{{User|Fawfulfury65}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|King Bean}} Per all. | |||
====Oppose Removal==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
I'll support this as well, but I also feel we should do an overhaul on the categorization system in general. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 00:01, 20 December 2009 (EST) | |||
:I fully agree, but I've been to busy to concept anything about a new category system lately, while the rest of the staff has been focused on overhauling navigation templates and user pages for now. It's definitely on our list. - {{User|Cobold}} 14:05, 20 December 2009 (EST) | |||
---- | |||
===Change naming convention for power-up form articles=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|1-5|keep as is}} | |||
Currently, we define the articles for various forms of characters upon power-up with the title of "Form Mario". This is ultimately misleading because many characters besides Mario have been shown to make use of different power-ups and wear the same form, yet we choose to use Mario as the catch-all despite him not being the official name for such a form, only the original user and most widely-known transformer. | |||
While this practice isn't necessarily ''bad'', it has resulted in some confusion on how exactly to merge and split the articles relating to the [[Metal Cap|metal]] [[Power Flower|form]]. For example, [[Metal Wario]] is currently being proposed to merge with [[Metal Mario]] due to the shared nature of those characters under that form. However, the Metal Mario page is also being proposed to be split with information on Metal Mario ''the character'' (as seen in the ''Super Smash Bros.'' series and other media as a playable character). The problem resulting from this is that there would be two "Metal Mario" articles, or at least two very similarly named ones, with one being "Metal Mario" and covering the form, and the other being "Metal Mario (character)", which are both too similar to avoid confusion. | |||
Another problem arising from this standard in naming convention is the placement of alternate name tags at the top of the page. While these tags certainly serve their purpose, they are also an eye-sore. Seeing boxy tags of ''any'' kind at any point on a page makes me think the article is incomplete or under construction of some kind. It just pulls me out of the right mindframe of reading and ''enjoying'' an article. | |||
What this proposal is hoping to achieve is to change the current naming standard to one that more clearly and generally explains the contents of an article, as well as remove the need for the above explained tag. Any form a character can become upon use of a power-up, such as [[Frog Mario]], [[Metal Mario]], [[Fire Mario]], etc. will be re-named to "X Form". | |||
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Redstar}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline:''' December 26, 2009, 20:00 | |||
====Change Naming Convention for Forms==== | |||
#{{User|Redstar}} - Per proposal | |||
====Leave Naming Convention as it is==== | |||
#{{User|Fawfulfury65}} To be honest, I'd rather have it all x Mario, instead of x Form. I really never minded the templates on the page. Mario is the main character, so he should be the main names of the form. At least in my opinion. | |||
#{{User|Walkazo}} - As vellidragon mentioned in the comments, the games default to "X Mario" even if Luigi (or other characters) can power-up too, and going with actual names is much better than making stuff up ourselves, as would be the case with "X Forms". At least the duality templates don't look as bad as speculation templates gracing our articles. Also, in the ''Wario'' games, only Wario powers-up, so changing those to "X Forms" would be folly, but leaving them as "X Wario" while "X Mario" gets converted would look inconsistent. | |||
#{{User|Gamefreak75}} Meh, it sounds weird. How would Fire Form or Fat Form (LOL) sound. Bomb Form, Snowball Form, Burning Form, there's millions. | |||
#{{User|Vellidragon}} Per my comment below. The way it's currently done is the most official. | |||
#{{User|Stooben Rooben}} — Per Vellidragon. Besides, as long as {{tem|diff}} is used properly, it's easy to keep everything organized. | |||
====Comments==== | |||
What about merging the forms with the items that cause them? That way, we can avoid the unofficial "X Form" names. The only possible problem with this is if different items are used to make the same form in different games. The only example I could think of off the top of my head, however, is [[Dragon Wario]], and I think ''Wario''-series forms should remain unchanged anyway, seeing as those powerups aren't exactly the same as in the core ''Mario'' series (and they're always unique to Wario, so the arguments about duality don't apply to them). - {{User|Walkazo}} | |||
:Mario becomes Metal Mario upon use of a [[Metal Cap]], while Wario does so through use of a [[Power Flower]]... While I do support the idea, and have thought about it myself before, I'm not sure if that type of merge would sit well with the majority of people. It does make sense, however to have a single comprehensive on a power-up, followed by a second half detailing its use in different media. Not the most controversial merge-idea, but I'm sure some people wouldn't like it. Discussion, as always, and we'll see. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 00:58, 19 December 2009 (EST) | |||
:I disagree with merging them with the power-ups; like Redstar pointed out, the forms can sometimes be caused by different power-ups. IIRC, the Fire/Super Mario transformation in the cartoons could be triggered by a [[Starman]] or even pasta. Not sure what to think about the renaming atm; it would get rid of the "alternative title" template thingy, but I'm not sure I like the "... Form" title very much. As far as I'm aware, manuals and strategy guides (at least older ones) have always used the "... Mario" naming scheme which we have on the Wiki right now (and if they didn't, they still used "... [character name]"); I'm not sure if "... Form" has ever been used in official sources. Imo, official terms should be used wherever they are known.--[[User:Vellidragon|vellidragon]] 10:44, 19 December 2009 (EST) | |||
::@Vellidragon: I don't like the term Form that much either, but it carries far more general areas than "X Mario", when clearly any number of characters can hold such forms. In any case, we already categorize the forms under [Category:Forms], under sub-category [Category:Mario's Transformations]. The main category at least acknowledges that they're forms, but the sub-category is pretty narrow. Again, Mario isn't the only one to use these forms. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 16:31, 19 December 2009 (EST) | |||
::@Walkazo: The thing is, saying that "Fire Mario" is the proper term is just as much "made-up" as "Fire Form" would be... Fire Mario, Frog Mario, Cape Mario, etc. were never names for the ''form'' itself, but for Mario himself when using the power-up. Assuming the name applies to the form as well is just stretching it too far. If we're going to "make-up" a term, I'd rather it be "form" so we can avoid confusion and using a tag that says "also known as" five times. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 22:27, 19 December 2009 (EST) | |||
:::I disagree: since things like "Fire Mario" appear in games and manuals, I think people will remember that term more easily and use it when they browse the Internet long before "Fire Form" occurs to them. Perhaps regular Users of the Super Mario Wiki will learn to use "X Form", but random guests probably won't, and they're the people we're trying to reach most of all. To the uninitiated, which is more welcoming, the familiar "Fire Mario" or an ambiguous "Fire Form"? That's what I mean my making stuff up: "Fire Mario" is straight from Nintendo, whereas "Fire Form" is taking a step beyond where they have gone, and if it's not canon, it's speculation, which is to be avoided at all costs. Nintendo is fine with using "X Mario" as a catch-all, and so should we. As for the [[template:Diff|Diff template]], I think it's merely a matter of personal opinion on how it impacts the pages; myself, I've always thought it was a nifty way to handle these issues, and if anything, they make me more interested in the following information and its duality. - {{User|Walkazo}} | |||
::::Well, I agree with "Form" being less official. Personally, I'm fine with the naming convention as it is now, but I was suggested to make this proposal just to get the issue settled so we can continue on with the proposals concerning [[Metal Mario]] and [[Metal Wario]]. I'm just playing Devil's advocate, you realize. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 23:50, 19 December 2009 (EST) | |||
:::::The way I see it, the Metal page issue isn't because of the name, but because of the form vs. character debate. I posted another possible solution on [[Talk:Metal Wario]] to that end. - {{User|Walkazo}} | |||
::::::Your exact solution is being discussed on the [[Talk:Metal Mario]] page, on whether or not we should split it into "Metal Mario (form)" and "Metal Mario (character)". Feel free to add your opinion there. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 23:57, 23 December 2009 (EST) | |||
:::::::Thanks - I forgot to re-read that discussion before commenting this time around. I'll be glad when we close the deal on these Metal pages: complex issues should not be discussed in three places at once... - {{User|Walkazo}} | |||
---- | |||
===Change Gate Keeper back to Piranha Plant in the Generator=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|5-0|change to piranha plant in the generator}} | |||
Somehow, Piranha Plant in the Generator is not the name of the creatures because apparently one person read in some unnamed guide that their name was Gate Keeper so that obviously was their name. This Proposal was made to see if people think the name is Piranha Plant in the Generator or Gate Keeper. | |||
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Dry Paratroopa}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline:''' Saturday, December 26th, 20:00 (8:00 pm) | |||
====Change back to Piranha Plant in the Generator==== | |||
#{{User|Dry Paratroopa}} - Per Proposal. | |||
#{{User|Zero777}} I am Zero! Although Gate Keeper will be easier to type down, you are right, just because a guide book in one language said Gate Keeper it could be an error or they are called like that in only one language, so that doesn't mean to change the name of the article because of an error or name change. Zero signing out. | |||
#{{User|Gamefreak75}} Where the hell did ''Gatekeeper'' come from? It doesn't even guard gates! Per DP and Zero777. | |||
#{{User|Fawfulfury65}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Redstar}} "Gate Keeper" makes absolutely no sense. Change it back. | |||
====Keep as Gate Keeper==== | |||
====Comments==== | |||
If it doesn't cover a general issue, only a singular one, I think this proposal would make more sense on the actual article's Discussion page. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 19:51, 19 December 2009 (EST) | |||
It would, but I'm kind of against talk page Proposals, because no one ever votes to those. For example, in the very talk page we're talking about there's a Proposal there and no one's voted yet as far as I'm aware of. {{User|Dry Paratroopa}} | |||
:If the name "Gate Keeper" is unofficial, there wouldn't even be a need for a vote and we could just move it back to an official name. Not everything needs to be decided by proposals. - {{User|Cobold}} | |||
::Yes I know but I'm not a sysop so I can't delete the pages so I can move it back (You can't move to an existing page). And besides no one else said anything on the talk page about moving it back so I was just checking to make sure I wasn't doing anything illegal. But of course, if I was so was that other guy... {{User|Dry Paratroopa}} | |||
:::You should be able to move over redirects though. But anyway, a proposal doesn't do any harm, it just stresses that everybody has the same opinion in cases like this. - {{User|Cobold}} | |||
::::Nope, it doesn;'t work. i just tried. I guess I'll just do it manually. {{User|Dry Paratroopa}} | |||
---- | |||
===Featured Image Rules=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|3-4|use current ruleset}} | |||
Many of you may be wondering why I put this in the "New Features" section and that is because we currently have ''no'' rules for Featured Images (except "must be in a mainspace page" and "no fanart". Everything needs rules and FIs are no exceptions. Here is my ruleset: | |||
#No re-nominating an image for a month after it has failed. | |||
#You ''can'' vote for an image to be unfeatured in the new "Unfeatured Image Nominations" section. | |||
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Marioguy1}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline:''' December 27, 2009, 17:00 | |||
====Use this ruleset==== | |||
#{{User|Marioguy1}} - Per proposal | |||
#{{User|Ralphfan}} – Per MG1. | |||
#{{User|Baby Mario Bloops}} That sounds fair, FA's and FI's are very alike. The rules stated above partly involve rules like such in FA's. Those two rules are very simple, and can really help the FI nominations... | |||
====Use current ruleset==== | |||
#{{User|Time Q}}: I don't think those rules would be harmful but I don't think they are necessary either. If an image has failed only by a margin of 1 vote, then I see no reason why it shouldn't get nominated again for a month. Also, I really don't think we need to introduce a new Unfeature system for FIs. Once an image was featured, it won't be featured again (which is different from FAs), so no need to worry. | |||
#{{User|Stooben Rooben}} — Per Time Q. The current system is perfectly fine; there's no need to change it. | |||
#{{User|GalacticPetey}}::Per Time Q and stooben rooben The rules are perfectly fine | |||
#{{User|Gamefreak75}} I could see chaos in the near future...per all. | |||
====Comments==== | |||
This ruleset should be easy to agree on considering it is composed of rules from the FA system... {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
I dont like rule 3, as it is kinda pointless, why would you remove votes if they dont need to have a valid reason? {{user|Tucayo}} | |||
:You're right, that's redundant and I don't want to create a big ruckus by trying to change the current rules, I have removed it from my proposal. {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
Sorry if this is kind of off-topic, but I have a different suggestion for a new rule: If the image with the most "positive" votes (i.e. support votes minus oppose votes) has less than 10 positive votes, it should stay nominated and instead one of the previous FIs should be featured again. Just wanted to throw that in. {{User|Time Q}} | |||
:Good idea but 10 may be a bit too much... {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
Time Q: So what happens when we run out of images to feature? I'm just wondering. | |||
Marioguy1: In your proposal, you wrote "No re-nominating an article for a month after it has failed." Don't you mean "image"? Just to avoid confusion. | |||
{{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}} | |||
:Sorry, you can tell what frame of mind I was writing this in :P {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
}} | }} | ||
---- | |||
===Remove Minus World from Category:Glitches=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|1-9|keep minus world there}} | |||
While I was looking at [[:Category:Glitches]] I notice [[Minus World]] was in the list. I propose to remove Minus World from that list, reasons: | |||
#It is part of the Super Mario Bros. Glitches. | |||
#It is only one glitch and itself is an article. | |||
#It looks very out of place with it being in that list. | |||
'''Proper:''' {{User|Zero777}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline:''' Monday, December 28th, 17:00 | |||
====Remove Minus World==== | |||
#{{User|Zero777}} I am Zero! The three reasons apply. The real big reason is that it is already part of the Super Mario Bros. Glitches so why does it need to appear twice? Zero signing out. | |||
====Keep Minus World their==== | |||
#{{user|Redstar}} - It's a glitch. Not sure why it shouldn't be in the category for glitches. | |||
#{{User|Marioguy1}} - Whether or not it is a glitch in other games, it was a glitch in that game and should stay categorized as one. Just like [[Mario]] is categorized as an enemy thanks to ''[[Donkey Kong (game)|Donkey Kong]]'', this should stay categorized as a glitch thanks to ''[[Super Mario Bros.]]'' and should stay that way. | |||
#{{User|Stooben Rooben}} — Per Redstar. If it's a glitch, it only makes sense to keep it in the glitches category. | |||
#{{User|Ralphfan}} – Per all. | |||
#{{User|Edofenrir}} - A glitch is a glitch. oô | |||
#{{User|Fawfulfury65}} - Per all. | |||
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Per all. | |||
#{{User|Gamefreak75}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Reversinator}} A glitch is a glitch. | |||
====Comments==== | |||
Can this be removed? We have many, MANY proposals and this one will clearly not pass? Any toughts? {{user|Tucayo}} | |||
Yes it should be removed. It feels more like a joke proposal to me... {{User|Fawfulfury65}} | |||
:No, I don't think it is within the rules to remove it any other way than to veto it...admins can veto it but it is ''not'' a joke proposal; though it is also not a properly thought out one. {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
::Even misguided proposal ideas can be valuable archived material: we can point to this in the future if anyone tries to demote Minus World from being a glitch again, saving us the trouble of phrasing out counter-arguments anew, and maybe even making the next proposer back down when they see their effort will be in vain. - {{User|Walkazo}} | |||
---- | |||
===Allow up to 8 Personal Images=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|1-12|do not allow 8 pi's}} | |||
Currently, a user is allowed up to four personal images (plus one in their sig). I think it would do no harm to allow a few more. It wouldn't cause users to upload a ridiculous number of pics and turn the site into Photobucket. There aren't many users who even have one PI, so it wouldn't take up a lot of server space. I see no reason not to allow a few more PIs. | |||
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Ralphfan}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline:''' December 29, 17:00 | |||
====Support==== | |||
#{{User|Ralphfan}} – Per above. | |||
====Oppose==== | |||
#{{User|Vellidragon}} - As the proposal states, there aren't many users who even have one PI, so I don't see why anyone would need that many. | |||
#{{User|Edofenrir}} - We are the Mario Wiki, not MySpace. If you are here, your goal should be to improve the content of the site, not to showcase your images. There are enough means around the internet for those purposes. | |||
#{{User|Cobold}} - Per Edofenrir, also you can just hotlink external images if you're in desparate need for them. | |||
#{{user|Bloc Partier}} - Per all. | |||
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Per all. | |||
#{{User|Stooben Rooben}} — ''Eight?'' That's really excessive. Our current number of allowed PIs is fine. It allows enough room for a user to express themselves on their userpage, and even in their sig. It's no more of a hassle to upload your pictures to Photobucket or whatever and link to them here, than it is to upload your pictures ''here'' and link to them. That's what image-hosting sites are for; that is '''not''' what the Super Mario Wiki is for. | |||
#{{User|GalacticPetey}} WHOA! 8! per Edofenrir | |||
#{{User|Reversinator}} Who'd need eight personal images? | |||
#{{user|Tucayo}} - Per all. | |||
#{{User|Marioguy1}} - You want lots of PIs? Go to userpedia. | |||
#{{User|RAP}} - Per Edo, and Stooben Rooben. Seriously, 8 PIs? :S | |||
#{{User|MATEOELBACAN}} - Per all, who needs 8 Pi's? O_o | |||
====Comments==== | |||
---- | |||
===Merge All Golfers and Tennis Players=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|2-7|do not merge}} | |||
I propose that all the generic human tennis players and golfers appearing in every Mario Tennis and Mario Golf game should all be merged together. If this proposal does pass the only idea I have to name this new article could be "List of Generic Humans". The reason is that about every single character except for three or four are stubs, being composed of only two to four sentances, some with no images. | |||
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Zero777}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline:''' December 31, 2009, 17:00 | |||
====Merge==== | |||
#{{User|Zero777}} I am Zero! This is a wiki, we put full information on every single article, we are not a wikia, only having one to three sentances on one article, so merging would be the best to do now. Zero signing out. | |||
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Most of these characters are playable once and have virtually no information surrounding them, so they are neither major aspects of the ''Mario'' series nor can full pages be written about them: there are more substantial entries in [[List of Implied People]]. When we merged the Waffle Kingdom people Luigi spoke of into said page, it did not mean that we valued them any less than before - we merely did it for consistency and organization; similarly, merging the human golfers and tennis players would make navigation faster and easier. Giving pages to everything that has a name has not worked like we hoped it would, and as more named things get added to the ''Mario'' series with each new game, it's doubtful we will ever fully catch up; instead of grasping at straws, perhaps we should try something different. | |||
====Do Not Merge==== | |||
#{{User|Time Q}}: They are rather major characters from a ''Mario''-sub-series. If their articles are too short, expand them rather than merge them. | |||
#{{User|Cobold}} - per Time Q. | |||
#{{User|Grandy02}} - Per Time Q. | |||
#{{User|Fawfulfury65}} More can be added, like stats, appearances, or where that character is found. | |||
#{{User|Reversinator}} The reason these articles are short is because nobody adds information to them. [[Max]] and [[Tina]] are examples of what they should look like, while [[Tiny (Mario Golf series)|Tiny]] and [[Putts]] are pretty much a complete article. {{fake link|Tony (golfer)}} was deleted due to its shortness (thanks to Knife), but that doesn't mean they're worhtless. One last thing: What is the Mario Wiki coming to if we need to merge articles on playable characters? | |||
#{{User|Gamefreak75}} Per Time Q. | |||
#{{User|Stooben Rooben}} — Per Time Q. There's plenty of info and images to be supplied to those articles, so long as one is knowledgeable and willing enough to do so. | |||
====Comments==== | |||
What about other random human sports players? I'm assuming you'd want to see the tennis players merged as well as the golfers (in a separate list page), for the sake of consistency. - {{User|Walkazo}} | |||
Hm, I think this proposal is a good example of why we should keep "Splits & Merges" proposals on this page. On which talk page would we put it? {{User|Time Q}} | |||
:When in doubt, put it on here: since it deals with so many pages from so many different games, there is no logical central place for it ({{tem|human}} deals with all the effected pages, but it's sorta removed from the pages itself; same with [[:Category:Humans]]). It's also dealing with MWiki policy as much as straight merging - it's the old "what warrants a page" and "how to deal with stubs" debate - so putting it here in Changes would work. - {{User|Walkazo}} | |||
I am Zero! The reason I said merge them is that there is really not that much to expand on most of them because they only made one or two appearences (most of them) in the Mario Golf and Mario Tennis series only. Zero signing out. {{User|Zero777}} | |||
Would you mind making a short or complete list of which characters you mean? I did a cursory glance to try to find some of these characters, but didn't really pop up with anything. It'd be easier if you could show us who you mean. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 17:53, 25 December 2009 (EST) | |||
:He means all the characters that you face in the Mario Golf and Mario Tennis games, like [[Sophia]], [[Meg]], [[Mason]], [[Joe]], [[Gene]], or [[Grace]]. Those characters are human characters that you face in some Mario Golf and Mario Tennis games. There's a ton more characters like that. Although, I actually don't see most of those as stubs. {{User|Fawfulfury65}} | |||
---- | |||
===Changes to the coverage of Crossover Series=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|canceled}} | |||
The Mario Wiki covers a lot of Super Smash Bros. content quite excessively. We do feature every facet of the games, its characters, stages, items, music, trophies, etc. This is in accordance to [[MarioWiki:Coverage]] and I'm not proposing against this content being on the wiki. However, I feel that a lot of information is on the wiki two or three times. The articles [[Super Smash Bros.]], [[Super Smash Bros. Melee]] and [[Super Smash Bros. Brawl]] are all big list articles. They already cover most of everything we could possibly want to know about the games (aside from splits like [[Subspace Emissary]]). | |||
The games' articles already contain information about the playable characters, their bio and their special moves. The articles also explain all the stages, and all the items. The articles for the characters, items and stages are only repeating that information, and add very little to it like the trophy information. But the trophy information for all trophies can already be seen on [[Trophy Descriptions (SSBM)]]. Thus, I think the articles are rendered a little bit superflous, and they would do better if simply merged with the main games' articles. This would not remove any substantial content about Smash Bros. from the wiki, it would just make us not repeat ourselves that often. | |||
I propose the following: | |||
*Merge non-Mario characters into the SSB articles. This includes characters like [[Mewtwo]]. This does not include [[Link]], as he also appeared in a Mario game. But the SSB information on the Link article would be shortened to only say he appeared in the game and link to it. The SSB information in the Mario article would not be removed. | |||
*Merge stages that did not make an appearance in Mario games. This includes [[Mute City]]. It also includes [[Yoshi's Story (stage)]], as it never appeared in a Mario/Yoshi game by itself. | |||
*Merge non-Mario items. Mario items would still contain information about their effects in SSB games. ([[Star Rod]] would have an individual discussion because of its oddity in this case. It is not covered by this proposal.) | |||
Not touched are: | |||
*[[Subspace Emissary]] | |||
*[[Trophy]], [[Trophy Descriptions (SSBM)]], [[Trophy Descriptions (SSBB)]] | |||
*Everything else I didn't mention above. | |||
If any content that is on the individual articles is not featured on the game's articles, it can be added with the merge. This is still a better solution than having huge amounts of duplicate content lying around all over the wiki. If this proposal passes, it will also _not_ change the way we handle Mario & Sonic content. | |||
'''Proposer:''' {{User|Cobold}}<br> | |||
'''Proposed Deadline:''' 5 January 2010, 17:00 EST | |||
'''Date Withdrawn:''' January 1, 2010, 14:14 GMT | |||
====Support Changes==== | |||
#{{User|Cobold}} - repeated information doesn't help anybody. | |||
#{{User|Edofenrir}} - Per Cobold, repetition is bad... So, Per Cobold. | |||
#{{User|Twentytwofiftyseven}} - Per Cobold. | |||
#{{User|Zero777}} I am Zero! That is a good idea, why does information had to repeat several times. Zero signing out. | |||
#{{user|Tucayo}} - I hate me for doing this, and I never thought I would agree on this, as I always opposed it, but in the way Cobold puts it, I think this is the best for the wiki. | |||
#{{user|Bloc Partier}} - Per all. | |||
====Oppose Changes==== | |||
#{{User|Reversinator}} Tons of articles, created throughout years, just merged together? It's a very big shame if this happens. The Super Smash Bros. is a series pertaining to Mario. The Mario series has the most appearing things in this series, and plays a big role. All the items, stages and characters pertain more to Mario than some of the other articles. Also, this doesn't benifit the Mario Wiki and rather detriments it. | |||
#{{User|Gamefreak75}} Per Reversinator. The only thing I support merging are the stages, but nothing else. It just seems really stupid... | |||
#{{user|Canama}} Per Reversinator. | |||
#{{user|Cookieo}} Per Reversinator. | |||
#{{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}} This will break consistency regarding to such characters. Characters like Kirby would still have his own article while characters like Snake are all merged into one article? This applies for everything else regarding Super Smash Bros. too. Better leave it as it is. | |||
#{{User|Fawfulfury65}} Per BLOF. | |||
#{{User|Supermariofan14}} - Per Reversinator. | |||
====Comments==== | |||
When you say "Merge non-Mario characters into the SSB articles" do you mean merging the characters into List of X articles or into the respective game articles?--{{User|Knife}} 20:21, 29 December 2009 (EST) | |||
:Into the respective game articles. - {{User|Cobold}} | |||
I don't really fancy the idea of merging around two to three hundred articles, but if this gets merged, so should other crossover charactersr in other games, no? {{User|Reversinator}} | |||
:It would apply to [[Itadaki Street DS]], [[Tetris DS]], and the likes. Mario & Sonic is a bit different as it has Mario in the name. - {{User|Cobold}} | |||
What makes stages less important than characters? - {{User|Cobold}} | |||
Hm... what are we going to do about SSB-related articles that also have some other interesting info, e.g. [[Blue Falcon|this one]] (cameos in SMRPG and MKWii) or [[Falco Lombardi|that one]] (cameo in Club Nintendo)? {{User|Time Q}} | |||
:This would be a similar situation as with [[Link]], I assume... - {{User|Edofenrir}} | |||
::<s>I'm not sure if Link should really get a separate article just because of this small SMRPG role.</s> (Ignore that part, I didn't notice he appeared in some DK and Wario games as well.) However, he was a major character in a few Club Nintendo comics, so his article will stay anyway. But the articles I've mentioned have only cameo appearances really. {{User|Time Q}} | |||
:::Then we might consider merging it with the List of Cameos... - {{User|Edofenrir}} | |||
::::What about Kirby? He had major role in a Club Nintendo comic. And Samus? She never had a major part in a Club Nintendo comic, but appeared in SMRPG and the ''WarioWare'' games, but don't those count as cameos? --{{User|Grandy02}} | |||
:::::I think the Kirby article would definitely be kept, since he appeared in [[Super Mario: Mario im Wunderland|Mario]] [[Super Mario in Die Nacht des Grauens|comics]] (they could be considered crossover comics, but they are clearly named after Mario, so...). {{User|Time Q}} | |||
::::::Hm, and [[Whispy Woods]]? His role in the Wunderland comic is very minor. --[[User:Grandy02|Grandy02]] 15:11, 30 December 2009 (EST) | |||
I really think you should redefine the proposal. The header is good, but the proposal itself seems to be targeted only towards the SSB series. Since you've included Itadaki Street and Tetris DS, you should probably define what kind of crossover series you are including in this proposal. Mario & Sonic is not affected, but what about Club Nintendo articles or Wario Blast? Will articles on crossover characters like [[Mametchi]] or [[Cactuar]] be effected? Second, shouldn't the character articles be merged elsewhere? The game articles are extremely long as it is.--{{User|Knife}} 12:49, 30 December 2009 (EST) | |||
:I'm confused about the handling of other crossovers, too. Regarding ''Itadaki Street DS'', should it be solely decided on the name "Mario" in the title? It is a crossover between two series, ''Mario'' and ''Dragon Quest'', and not more than a dozen of series like in ''Super Smash Bros.'' --[[User:Grandy02|Grandy02]] 15:11, 30 December 2009 (EST) | |||
::I have to admit that I did not put much thought into other crossover series. It just strikes me that Smash Bros. does not even have a 50% ratio of Mario content, yet we feature it on the wiki for 200% and more. If you have suggestions on how to handle those, I'd appreciate them. We can also delay the decision for further proposals. I feel like the 1 week deadline is a bit short to discuss this properly, especially around New Year. I don't want to hastily decide the fate of a lot of articles. In similar fashion, I think we could have a separate poll/vote on whether the mentioned characters/stages/items should be condensed into just the game articles or be kept in a separate "List of Characters in the Super Smash Bros. Series" and similar articles. - {{User|Cobold}} | |||
Should articles such as [[HAL Laboratory]], [[Sora Ltd.]], and [[Masahiro Sakurai]] be merged into different articles as well, as they were only involved in making the SSB series, and not necessarily Mario? {{User|Garlic Man}} | |||
:Those could be included as well, but they are not a big focus. They can be decided on a case-by-case basis. - {{User|Cobold}} | |||
::Cobold, '''''some''''' of the stages play no role in the Mario series except serving as am arena in Brawl so we should merge them, but the characters are well written and it would be a shame to just merge them all. The only way if this were to work is if you were to delete the info and state something like: '''Olimar is a playable charcter in brawl. His moves are blah, blah, and blah.''' Also some charcters like Ness and Capt. Falcon appear in more than just one game, so that'd be another problem. Some items also appear in all the smash games too.{{User|Gamefreak75}} | |||
@BabyLuigiOnFire & Fawfulfury65: This is not true. Characters such as Kirby would keep their article because they made notable appearances outside the SSB series. Imagine there were no SSB series at all, then Kirby would still have his article (because of his other appearances). So this proposal doesn't break consistency. {{User|Time Q}} | |||
But there is a SSB series, and so every character needs a separate article. {{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}} | |||
:But the question is whether we should cover the SSB series as if it was a Mario series, and I think there are good reasons why we shouldn't. {{User|Time Q}} | |||
::Yeah, I agree with that. SSB is a spin-off of the entire Nintendo series, and is not part of the Mario series. It is its own separate series. But since Mario is involved, we have to cover it, right? And the series has more Mario representation than the other series, just like Reversinator said. {{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}} | |||
:::Yes, we have to cover it, and this proposal wouldn't change anything about this - we would keep all the information, just merge it (and remove the redundant information). See [[MarioWiki:Coverage|this policy]] - we have to cover content of the crossover series but we're free to merge the information so that we make it apparent that we're still primarily a Mario wiki rather than a crossover wiki. {{User|Time Q}} | |||
Actually, it does break consistency if the proposal isn't expanded to include all crossover series, not only the SSB series.<br> | |||
@Cobold: According to Rule 10, you only have today to rewrite the proposal. I suggest you delete it for now and recreate the proposal once you've planned everything out.--{{User|Knife}} 19:17, 31 December 2009 (EST) | |||
:I agree. {{User|Time Q}} | |||
---- | |||
===Split [[:Category:Special Moves]]=== | |||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|12-1|create the category}} | |||
While patrolling, I found that tehre is no such category as "Moves", so all of the things that will clasify as normal moves, are listed as special, so I propose we choose which from the Special Moves are not special, and are just "moves". <br> | |||
Since when is Jump something special? It is the most common and ordinary thing in the Mario series.<br> | |||
You can post in the comments section which Special MOves you dont think are Special.<br> | |||
For example, some things as the [[Baby Drill]] is special, because it is something that is not commonly done, while something as [[Baby Toss]] simply isn't, because it is just throwing the babies.<br> | |||
How will they be separated? I think that most of the SM are found in RPG's, moves like the Green Shell, Copy FLower, and those. Normal Moves are the ones you can "Normally" do, like jumping, baby tossing, high jumping, perhaps. | |||
'''Proposer:''' {{user|Tucayo}}<br> | |||
'''Deadline:''' 3 January 2010, 15:00 | |||
====Create the Moves category==== | |||
#{{user|Tucayo}} - Per me. | |||
#{{User|Cobold}} - I don't consider [[Jump]] to be a "special" move. | |||
#{{User|Fawfulfury65}} Yeah I was just thinking about that category today. Jump isn't a special move at all! | |||
#{{User|Twentytwofiftyseven}} - Per all. | |||
#{{User|Edofenrir}} - I just browsed Category:Special Moves, and there seems to be enough material to warrant the creation of a new Category. When splitting however, please take into account what I said in the comment section. | |||
#{{User|Zero777}} I am Zero! I notice that a few months back I didn't really care, but that is a good idea. Since hen jump considered a special? Zero signing out. | |||
#{{User|BabyLuigiOnFire}} There's nothing so special about "Jump" and "Gulp" concerning with the main series so why list them under the Special Moves Category? I agree with this proposal, make a normal moves section. Why isn't there a normal moves category yet? | |||
#{{User|Gamefreak75}} Per all. | |||
#{{User|Supermariofan14}} - Per all. | |||
#{{User|Baby Mario Bloops}} - So it would be just '''Moves''' and '''Specials''' (or Special Moves)? That sounds excellent and more organzied than the constuction zone we have now... | |||
#{{User|Stooben Rooben}} — Per all. | |||
#{{User|MATEOELBACAN}} Per All. | |||
====All moves are special==== | |||
#{{User|Fly Guy 2}} I agree completely, but this needs to have 3 or more votes to pass because it has 10 "agree" votes | |||
====Comments==== | |||
Please consider that the term "Special Move" comes directly from gameplay jargon and is not determined by how out-of-the-ordinary the action in question is. Wheter something is a normal move or a special move depends on how it is accessed and executed, not what exactly it is. <br> | |||
In an RPG f.e. special moves are those moves that are an alternative to the plain "attack" command. They usually, but not necessarily, consume a certain source of power, like FP. Basically, everything action different from a character's normal way of attack is a special move. | |||
If we split this category into two, then the [[Jump]] you mentioned would be in both categories. It is Mario's normal way of attack in most games, but in SMRPG gameplay, it qualifies as a special move. Because of this ambiguation, I cannot make my decision solely on the base of Jump. Do you have any other examples? - {{User|Edofenrir}} | |||
:I tried to clarify it :) Feel free to comment. And yes, in the way you put it, i think Jump should be in both. {{user|Tucayo}} | |||
::Reading some of the comments above, one has to wonder if anybody actually reads the comment section... - {{User|Edofenrir}} | |||
:::Um...Shy Guy: Why did you vote oppose without a reason except "I fully support"? {{User|Marioguy1}} | |||
I willget to this the 3rd or the 4th, if I cant. [[user:Tucayo]] | |||
::::'''Fly Guy 2''': Proposals with 10 or more votes merely need to pass by a ''margin'' of three - it doesn't mean both sides need at least three votes period. The rule means that a vote of 6-4 couldn't pass (or fail) because it's too close a race - there's only 2 votes separating the two sides; however, 7-4 could pass/fail, because there's a difference of 3. The rule was made for controversial proposals: when you get proposals with over twenty votes, letting them pass by a single vote would be a bad idea, because the community is clearly divided and either outcome would not serve the Wiki; holding out for a difference of three gives us more time to negotiate a solution everyone's happy with. However, ''this'' proposal has a clear majority already, so the rule will not come into play at all when the deadline hits. If you support it, vote "support". - {{User|Walkazo}} |
Latest revision as of 21:14, April 12, 2022
Different Version Characterssupport 17-2
This proposal is to make it so that in the case of characters from the film, we create separate articles for the character that explains them for the film but also makes note of the connections to video game characters. It is also to make it so that just because in some previous media there has been an infant form of a character, does not mean that it is the Baby form of the character from video-games. Infant Princess Daisy from film =/= Baby Daisy from videogames. If there's any confusion, ask. This proposal was made from ides of numerous users on the comments of previous confusion from the original proposal made by Redstar. Proposer: FD09 Support
Oppose
CommentsThis is the result I originally had in mind, but failed to voice that proposal in a clear way. Under this new proposal I think special attention can be paid to both the film characters and their video game-counterparts in an equal way, satisfying all parties and make for a much more informative encyclopedia. Redstar 17:39, 24 November 2009 (EST)
FD09: Where do you plan to put the info about the infant characters from the cartoons? Time Q (talk)
Super Mario Bros.: I don't even see how you see logic in that oppose since it's not about separating media as it is clarifying on specific character's details. Although the information will be getting removed from the babie's page sit is still considered a part of the "actual" character's history. It's not separation of media, it's separation of characters.FD09
Merge Traps and Obstacles pages to super-articleno merge 1-5 Proposer: Redstar SupportOppose
CommentsI fixed up the coding, remember to use the format ===<proposal=== when making a proposal. Marioguy1 (talk)
"Coincollector (Talk) - That's really unnecessary. Not ALL traps-and-obstacles articles are one-sentence long. If they had that size would be rapidly deleted cuz Mariowiki doesn't approve that. Second point, if we have short articles - more than one sentence long, sure, we just add they are stubs and soon these pages can receive more information by a good contributor. "
Despite for being a short article, that doesn't mean it will remain short forever. Anybody can add more info to these articles if they know more of them. Furthermore, we have the pipeproject Unstubify where many users want to remove that (annoying) stub tag to make short articles longer and informative. Coincollector (talk)
Sorry, but your latest comment is forcing to go beyond of a topic that I ain't concerned by now. How can I find more info for a single short article since personally I'm busy for other objectives of my life? I don't know but sometime... Coincollector (talk)
Then if you couldn't find more info, too bad, but even so that doesn't mean the article is and will be stub. I think this proposal something unnecessary just because you think all the obstacles are short, contain the same info (it kills the character and nothing else) and THEY'RE NOT articles - then what they are?. And if you are still thinking so, then think about the one-time appearance characters. Coincollector (talk)
"A platform is an obstacle in almost every adventure video game, and the Super Smash Bros. series. In sidescrollers, the player can jump through platforms (and in Smash Bros' case, drop through as well), but in 3D games, the player would need to get on them as if the game were real life. Some platforms cannot be jumped through in sidescrollers (Mario Bros. for example), but most can. "
Category Splitsplit 15-0 Proposer: Marioguy1 (talk) Split
RemainCommentsRemoval of Support/Oppose Votes Votescanceled by proposer
Anyhow, here are my points: The Removal of Support/Oppose Votes section is not well-ruled and any vote goes ATM. I propose that we do one of three things, allow any user to create another section to remove that vote OR allow any user to just remove the vote as long as they put a comment in the comments section as to why OR allow admins to remove the votes as long as they put a comment in the comments section. Same thing goes for my second thing that I am proposing because we really need to define some rules for these sections. Proposer: Marioguy1 (talk) Removal of VotesThis proposes to remove the votes from that section in three different ways. Vote on RemovalAnyone can RemoveAdmins Only
Removal of SectionsThis proposes three ways to remove the entire section. Vote on RemovalAnyone can RemoveAdmins OnlyCommentsIf you don't get the proposal then don't vote but I think we must quickly define a ruleset for this type of thing. Marioguy1 (talk)
Make bestiaries or not?make bestiaries just for rpg's 0-12
HOWEVER, games in the Paper Mario series and Super Mario RPG SHOULD have bestiaries because their games have psychopath thoughts/tattles and bestiaries. But yeah, no need for bestiaries on those other games. Happy voting! Proposer: Fawfulfury65 (talk) Make Bestiaries for all articlesBestiaries should be developed for RPG game articles only; unnecessary for other genres
CommentsIs this proposal supposed to delete all bestiary articles or only those pertaining the M&L series? Lists of enemies should belong on the game's article (Paper Mario games shouldn't get any special treatment). I'd support preventing all bestiary articles.--Knife (talk) Uhm... Does this Proposal actually intent to change anything? If so, then the header of the second paragraph is misnamed. If not, then what's the point? - Edofenrir (talk) 20:12, 29 November 2009 (EST)
Yes but I honestly doubt we'll have to make any bestiaries. A lot of uses didn't like the idea of bestiaries, but I made this proposal to solve an argument. I hate when people fight on the internet. Fawfulfury65 (talk)
Uhm... I just want to inform you, that, should the Proposal pass in favour of the site who is leading atm, absolutely nothing will happen, because the header says "Keep as is". - Edofenrir (talk)
So do have to change something because the header says "keep as is"? Fawfulfury65 (talk)
There seems to be some confusion as to what a bestiary is. A bestiary is a complete list of all enemies found in a particular game, as well as the places they are located. It has absolutely nothing to do with tattle information, and in no way ends up as a stub. Really, Fawful is misleading you all as he apparently hasn't even read the current bestiary for the Paper Mario page. The intent of bestiaries are to avoid crowding main articles and expand on information that would otherwise be a list. Please, look at all the information before casting your votes. Redstar 22:23, 29 November 2009 (EST)
CoinCollector: Bestiaries are not meant to be simple lists. They are a more thorough amount of information detailing locations in-game found, stats, and in-game tattle or player's guide information. These are things that should be there anyways, but if they were would take up too much room and so are moved. Several articles already do this and it's supposed to be done for all of them, but hasn't already. The only reason this is up for proposal is because Fawful and MATEO don't want to do the necessary work to make their articles worthy of Featuring, so are attempting to side-step it by creating a proposal to undermine current standard. Redstar 02:20, 30 November 2009 (EST)
Fawfulfury65 recently re-wrote his proposal to better explain reasons against forming bestiaries. I will now write a rebuttal to each point explaining why bestiaries are both a good idea, and why his reasons are misinformed. Here we go:
I hope all those points explain why I feel bestiaries are both necessary and logical. Perhaps a few people will change their votes, but if not, I hope you all feel you have the correct facts and are making an informed decision. Thank you.
I changed my vote because I realized this proposal changes nothing already done, and actually agrees with my initial position. It was just so badly presented I had no idea what Fawful was trying to get at, but in the end I realized we can both benefit from this proposal. Redstar 00:55, 1 December 2009 (EST) Half of you need to re-vote, seeing as how this proposal is now changed to remove Paper Mario bestiaries.--Knife (talk) 14:20, 1 December 2009 (EST) I was actually thinking we could change the PM bestiary to Paper Mario/Tattle Information because most of it is tattle info. Then all the hard work going into the sub article wouldn't get deleted if the most users decide to get rid of all bestiaries. Fawfulfury65 (talk)
@Redstar: You can't make a new option without defining it. What exactly are you opposing? Instead, make the header something specific like "Allow RPG bestiaries only". Also, since the proposal has been changed, those votes without valid reasons will be removed. Knife (talk)
No, you misunderstood me. I meant change the title of your section from "oppose" to an option more specific.Knife (talk) Ok I agree that it should only be for Paper Mario games and SMRPG, but no other games, so my proposal wa, once again, edited. Hopefully, now I won't have to edit it anymore. So everyone can change their vote or whatever. Fawfulfury65 (talk) What's a Koopa?do not merge koopa and koopa troopa 2-9 Proposer: Marioguy1 (talk) Merge
No Merge
CommentsI was having a discussion on a similar topic just yesterday, concerning the Hammer Bros. I think the entire thing is sort of speculative since the page amounts to more than a cherry-picked list of various turtle-like enemies, entirely excluding other candidates. If it was truly extensive, it would list a lot more. But by the same token, it'd be speculation because who knows what a "Koopa" really is? The manual says "Koopa tribe", but the term "American" covers a lot of different races and ethnicities. Whether they meant "Koopa race" or "Koopa social-group", who knows. I feel a complete overhaul of the way we classify the enemies is in order. I really don't feel Boomerang Bro., Sumo Bro., Fire Bro., etc. should be considered "sub-species" of Hammer Bro. Related (as in similar, not blood-related) enemies, yes, but the current terms really deliver inaccurate connotations. Care to make this proposal a bit more general, MG1? If so, I'd be happy to support. Redstar
Super Mario World indeed lists Koopa Troopas simply as "Koopas" in the credits, which would suggest that only those are called "Koopas" and the enemies that aren't directly related to the Troopa are not. I don't think the Koopa article can be merged with Koopa Troopa like that however, since the majority of species listed in it are, in fact, quite clearly not Koopa Troopas. What it would need is a title change, or possibly a complete removal in favour of the Koopa Troop article.--vellidragon
Vellidragon: That's what Koopa (disambiguation) and {{about}} are for :P
Okay, how about this: Koopa is the species name for the generic-turtle enemies in the game, namely "Koopa Troopas". "Troopa", however, is a job title or position. Koopa Troopas are members of the Koopa Troop, making them troopers. This is supported by the Koopa Paratroopas, who take their name from paratroopers, or parachuting soldiers. This suggests that normal, wingless "Troopas" are also soldiers... Also take into account the RPG games, where we get most of our information. Enemy Koopa Troopas are specifically said to be working for Bowser. Compare this to Kent C. Koopa, an enemy that works alone, and note that his Tattle information calls him simply a "Koopa". No "Troopa" part. All the non-enemy Koopas in Koopa Village and, later, in Petalburg, are simply called Koopas. It seems highly likely that the difference is Koopa is species, and Troopa is title/position, much like the various "Bros." enemies carry the weapon or technique they use as a sort of job position-title. Redstar
Can we at least establish that Koopa is not a species and that Bowser's article should not be classified as having the species Koopa? That is the real reason I made this proposal anyways...Marioguy1 (talk)
Merge RPG Boss Aspects With Main Boss Articlesinvalidated due to breaking rule #11 The following are a list of which minions are proposed to be merged, to whom, and why.
In summation, here is a quick and easy list of what this proposal will accomplish:
And reasons why:
If anyone has any questions or comments, feel free to use the Comments section below. Hopefully I provided enough information to make a decision. If you agree with this proposal in general, but you don't agree with some of the merges or are wary of the reason why, feel free to comment about it and we can discuss it. This is a big proposal and I don't want anyone Opposing if they don't agree with just one aspect. Proposer: Redstar Support
Oppose
Comments@Tucayo: Lava Piranha before and after becoming covered in fire gets a different Tattle description... Does this make the two different enemies? No, it doesn't, and many other enemies are of the same circumstances. Many of these proposed merges have Tattles that specifically say they are a part of, or the same being as the enemy. The different body parts of Exor aren't divided among different articles, even though they each have different stat-spreads and tattles (Psychopath Thoughts). Likewise, all of these "minions" or extensions of the main boss are fought in the same battle, not different ones. Redstar 16:51, 1 December 2009 (EST)
Quote Edofenrir: "And next we merge Magnus Van Grapple with Lord Crump? It's the same guy, just surrounded by a load of metal." Well, yes. I go to Lord Crump's page and see a section very vague. If I want the whole story, I have to go to the Magnus Van Grapple page. Why do I need to jump around to get all the information? Magnus Van Grapple is not a character, and is not a boss... Lord Crump piloting it is, so the experience should be told from his perspective, not from an inanimate object. This proposal changes little. All it does is move all the information to one place where it is the most productive. Redstar 17:18, 1 December 2009 (EST) Just to be absolutely clear, are you proposing that the 8 cases listed above should be merged, or that those and all similar cases should be merged? Twentytwofiftyseven (talk) BMB: Yea, we dont want stubs, we want artciles, so lets expand those, merging is not a good solution. Tucayo (talk)
@FunkyK38: The line will be drawn quite cleanly. Merges will not occur all over, rendering this Wiki a copy of Wikipedia. There will still be articles dealing with a singular topic, hotlinked from main articles. The only reason these are brought up is because they are all aspects of the same enemy, just different "attack points", so to speak. Dividing them is unnecessary and only serves in spreading information which should be read in one place. Redstar 21:58, 1 December 2009 (EST) After reading over my list of suggested merges, I've decided that Chompy to Tutankoopa and Shy Squad to General Guy could easily be cut. They, to a degree, are individual enemies so are more on-the-fence compared to the other examples. Would anyone change their vote in favor of this proposal if these two were removed? Redstar 22:06, 1 December 2009 (EST) Wait a sec, I'm not understanding. The Proposals page never had a removal of votes section. Why this proposal have? Vini64 (talk) Alright, now you are fighting dirty. The rule you are refering to applies only in case of bad-faith or reasons that are so blatant that the wiki cannot support them. This rule is in no way a green card for expelling other people's opinions of their value. Tucayo's vote is valid, and mine was too! Stop this attempts to rig the Proposal! - Edofenrir (talk)
Walkazo: Until further notice there is not removal of removal of support/oppose votes nominations or comments sections. If you wish to have either of these things done then propose it here or on the admin boards but don't just go ahead and do it. I disagree with the removal of Tucayo's vote but there should be no comments placed there at all. Marioguy1 (talk)
I believe that people should be able to vote about what they think without fear of their votes being rendered, "invalid" and getting removed. The people of this wiki should be free to vote about what they see fit, and neither Tucayo or Edofenrir's votes are invalid. Lemmy Koopa Fan (talk)
In the past, I saw votes saying "Good idea" that were not removed. Why these are being now? Vini64 (talk) How exactly is Tucayo's vote "not specific"? He's stating the fact that they are different enemies, so they get different articles. Just because he didn't write it in a textbook fashion (i.e. "They are different enemies with different tattles, thus they should have different articles") doesn't make the vote invalid. -- Stooben Rooben (talk)
I will not remove neither modify my vote, because I know it is perfectly valid. In the worst of the cases, I can just per Edo ;) Tucayo (talk)
Redstar: I am not an admin of any sort unless you mean on userpedia and could we please, as Edo said, drop this subject? The admins are coming out with an advancement on rule #4 and we just have to trust them on that; wait a couple days until the rule has come out and then propose it. Marioguy1 (talk)
Redstar: as an administrator, i order you to drop this. If you continue this you will get a warning. Thanks and have a nice day. Tucayo (talk)
@luigi-board: Would you mind expanding your reason a little? You're either entirely for it, or entirely against. Any modifications should be handled in the Comments, which I can consider for modifying the proposal. Redstar 15:39, 7 December 2009 (EST)
You can't modify a proposal that's more than 3 days old. Twentytwofiftyseven (talk)
Would anyone be willing to change their vote in favor of this proposal if I were to remove Tubba Blubba's Heart and Bowser??? from this list? Please realize these are only examples, so they're not immediately meant to be put into action if the proposal were to pass anyways. They're only meant to give an impression of what I meant this proposal to accomplish, though I now feel the two above don't meet that standard so I'm willing to cut them. For Edo specifically, this protects from his fear of Magnus Von Grapple and similar being merged. Redstar 22:25, 9 December 2009 (EST)
Redstar: When you type the name of a user space with {{}} then the content of that page is copied onto the page you're editing. Marioguy1 (talk)
Redstar: If you want further information, my talk page is open. Anyhow, back to the proposal - would anybody change their vote now that Redstar has removed Tubba Blubba's Heart and Bowser? Marioguy1 (talk)
@Waluigi Guy: Most of the articles you suggested to merge weren't even stubs... Lemmy Koopa Fan (talk) Make a Limit for the Length of Comments on this pageleave as is 5-12
Proposer: FunkyK38 (talk) Shorten Comments
Leave as is
CommentsHmm... I don't know if limiting the comments to four to six sentences is the right solution... Though I fully agree with you that the comment sections have gotten very long and hard to overlook. I will think about this for a while. - Edofenrir (talk)
I always thought that separate sub-pages were a good idea. I brought it up on the talk page a long time ago, but I guess it fell through. Knife (talk) How about a show/hide tag? Or a scrollbox? Tucayo (talk)
Imposing character limits on comments just seems to go too far. My idea for a /Comments page work, but a show/hide tag, as suggested by Tucayo, is quick and easy as well. Redstar 10:28, 8 December 2009 (EST) The administrative staff will probably make a change to the proposal organization, so this proposal probably isn't necessary. Knife (talk) Allow Support Votes to be Removed on Nomination Pages?no removing support votes 4-6 So, here's how it would go: Users can vote on if they want to remove a support votes or not. If three users, including an admin, support for the removal of that vote, we can delete it. Good, right? Proposer: Fawfulfury65 (talk) Be able to remove support votes
Leave as is
CommentsWell, we already have that rule that the most blatantly annoying votes (aka fan votes) can be removed from the support section. I cannot think of another kind of vote that would be useless enough to justify its removal. I don't think this rule change is necessary, since support votes are basically useless after the nomination got five of them. Can you provide an example of a vote you'd like to remove? - Edofenrir (talk) Well, supports shouldn't be moved for fan votes only. When people oppose and just say something like "this is a terrible article" with no reason why, people can vote to remove that, but if someone supports saying something like "this is a great article!" why can't users vote to remove that? All votes that don't give a reason on why they supported and think the article is great really should be removed... Fawfulfury65 (talk) @Marioguy1: By all admins, you're saying sysops and patrollers, right? I'll change that I guess. I really want this to be like removing oppose votes. Fawfulfury65 (talk) Uh, you know people this days may load up the support with fan votes and we may get into a huge mess just trying to remove one at a time. But I do agree that "this article is good" isn't enough. In that case, some people may think many grammar errors are ok, but others think it is horrible. BabyLuigiOnFire (talk) Fawful: Yes, that is what I mean - Admins=Sysop, Patroller, Bcrat, that other rank... Marioguy1 (talk)
I vote for the removal of Reversinator's vote since unlike what he says, supporters of an FA nomination are NOT supposed to give reasons for their vote. Time Q (talk)
Ok, I dont plan to argue again :)You can make a proposal to revert that, or even veto it... Tucayo (talk)
T.c.w7468: I somehow like your idea, since there's indeed no real point in giving a reason when supporting a FA nomination. But I don't know if the reasons are that much of a problem really. Time Q (talk)
Split the colored enemiesdo not split 1-10 So I'd like to see some character articles be created. Proposer: Reversinator (talk) Create articles for colored characters
Leave as it is
Comments@BLOF: In the Baseball games, tons of other colored characters appeared, all with different stats, so that's null and void. With Yellow Yoshi, it describes him as brave, but aren't all of them? All right, the hungriness of them is ok, but how about other Yoshi? You know, the ones that don't have any significant differences between them, such as Brown Yoshi, Light Blue Yoshi, Pink Yoshi, Purple Yoshi and Orange Yoshi? Very few differences between them. @GF75: That information can easily be merged with the article. "All the Yoshis in Yoshi's Story posess the ability to eat the food and enemies in its path, although Black Yoshi and White Yoshi are able to eat Spiky Fruits, Peppers and Black Shy Guys". Of course, it'd be a lot more detailed. @MG1: It varies between games. Also, what about the Yoshis I mentioned above? @Redstar: Again, what about the Yoshis I mentioned above? Reversinator (talk)
This proposal is pretty vague. If you give specific examples, it would be much more clear as to which exact articles you want split. Bloc Partier (talk) Reversinator: Yes, the different colored enemies did have different stats, but it's only in the baseball games. Same thing goes for Pink and Light Blue Yoshi, because they have distinguishable stats only in the baseball games as well. However, Red, Blue, and Yellow Yoshi have different stats in other games such as Super Mario World, and all Yoshis have likes and dislikes of fruit in Yoshi's Story. We can't merge just Pink, Brown, Orange, Purple and Light Blue Yoshi because this breaks consistency. BabyLuigiOnFire (talk)
Cyan Shy Guy The Cyan Shy Guy is a cyan colored Shy Guy (obviously) that only appears in Mario Kart Wii as an audience member. Then the stub template will be placed here. It doesn't make sense. Gamefreak75 (talk) Rules and Regulations for Specific-Article Proposalslink to talk page proposals on mariowiki:proposals 0-11-0 We need a specific name for these proposals. I propose (no pun intended... really) "talk page proposals." I am open to other suggestions, but this is the name that I will use. I believe that these talk page proposals should get at least some mention to the whole userbase via this article (MarioWiki:Proposals) or a page linked to it (possibly MarioWiki:Proposals/Talk Page Proposals). This page will link to all pending talk page proposals and explain the rules of talk page proposals. Which leads to the most important part of this proposal: the rules. Now, I will give you all my rules for these pages; in my opinion they are fair and better for their purpose. Here they are:
The format for the listing of talk page proposals should be as Walkazo (talk)'s example below. If you vote to create a specific place for talk page proposals, you are also supporting the following three things:
As you can see in the voting section, I have given you a few options. Each should be explained sufficiently, but, if it is not, I will try my best to help you understand. Note: Only if Part 1 passes will Part 2 be viable. Proposer: Bloc Partier (talk) with additions from Walkazo (talk), Redstar (talk), and Marioguy1 (talk) Part 1: Link to Talk Page ProposalsDo Not Link to Talk Page Proposals on Any Specific PageLink to Talk Page Proposals on MarioWiki:Proposals
Link to Talk Page Proposals on a Sub-page: "MarioWiki:Proposals/Talk Page Proposals"Part 1 Comments@Walkazo: I'm not sure if it would be a sub-page at all. The proposal is still new, so perhaps we could discuss it and Bloc could add a third option? New page, sub-page, and right here on this page... I would prefer the first option, since it would give equal attention to this general proposal page, though you're right. If the list were formatted as you've done (which I think is the best means of presenting the information), it probably wouldn't merit a page of its own, though I'm still wary of how and where it would be placed here without being ignored or taking up too much room. Discussion, I suppose. Redstar 22:07, 18 December 2009 (EST)
As you can see here, 2257 has wired up a list of all things with {{merge to}} and what they are to be merged to Marioguy1 (talk)
Part 2: RulesUse Bloc Partier's Rules
Use MarioWiki:Proposals' Rules (No amendments)Part 2 CommentsCan you elaborate on your second rule? Redstar 19:40, 18 December 2009 (EST)
I may be too late to ask for an addition, but perhaps a rule on "clear majority rule"? If the given two weeks have passed, and no attention has been given to an individual article's proposal save the proposer's vote, that should not be counted as "majority in favor", and the proposer should not be allowed to act under that impression. While I'm not sure how many votes are fair enough to be counted for "significant attention to implement the proposal", three sounds fair because it's the lowest amount of votes needed to arrive at a majority-difference (two-to-one for either support or oppose). Thoughts? Redstar 02:28, 20 December 2009 (EST)
Just create {{User:Bloc Partier/Proposal}} and then use that; it's an easy way to edit forever :P Marioguy1 (talk)
@Cobold: From what I'm reading in Bloc's rules, a three vote-difference is needed to determine a majority-ruling. My previous suggestion seems to have been misinterpreted, but done so in a way that the presumed rule actually kills two birds with one stone. Redstar 06:58, 23 December 2009 (EST)
General CommentsHmmm... This is a bit confusing. Oh well. If anyone needs help, I'd love to assist. Just ask. Bloc Partier (talk) Since Redstar's proposal is gone, here's a version of his list of pages that need attention. It's organized so that all the pages concerned have a bit of background info (except the Merging pages, since we've talked about them to death already and I'm feeling lazy right now; I don't understand the Yoshi baby one, so I couldn't talk about that one either). All the pages concerned are linked to, with the page who's page contains the proposal in bold. In the future, I think it would be best if the proposals were staged on a common page (i.e. Culex instead of one of the Crystals, seeing as they're all going into his page; the major articles' talk pages also have a higher likelihood of getting read than the more minor aspects). There should also be a note in the rules that the proposals shouldn't be staged on redirect talk pages, since they'll never get read in that case (it's a pretty "well, duh" rule, but Bloc Partier was right to make sure we minimize loopholes by stating the obvious as much as possible).
I may be a little late, but I love the format, Walkazo. Also, I edited a new "rule" in. Bloc Partier (talk) NOTICE TO ALL WHO HAVE ALREADY VOTED: I have added a few things to the body of the proposal. Please review these edits and revise your vote if you wish to do so. Thank you. Bloc Partier (talk) Will the proposals concerning merging that were set up before this proposal was created have to be extended another week, or will they occupy a "grandfather's clause" of sorts and be allowed to end as voted? Redstar 03:59, 26 December 2009 (EST) Categories: List of Implied ...delete categories 16-0
Here are my reasons:
So overall I see no reason for them to exist. They have no possible entries. If you want to categorize the redirects, Category:Implied Characters is the way to go, but this is pointless. Proposer: Cobold (talk) Support Removal
Oppose RemovalCommentsI'll support this as well, but I also feel we should do an overhaul on the categorization system in general. Redstar 00:01, 20 December 2009 (EST)
Change naming convention for power-up form articleskeep as is 1-5 While this practice isn't necessarily bad, it has resulted in some confusion on how exactly to merge and split the articles relating to the metal form. For example, Metal Wario is currently being proposed to merge with Metal Mario due to the shared nature of those characters under that form. However, the Metal Mario page is also being proposed to be split with information on Metal Mario the character (as seen in the Super Smash Bros. series and other media as a playable character). The problem resulting from this is that there would be two "Metal Mario" articles, or at least two very similarly named ones, with one being "Metal Mario" and covering the form, and the other being "Metal Mario (character)", which are both too similar to avoid confusion. Another problem arising from this standard in naming convention is the placement of alternate name tags at the top of the page. While these tags certainly serve their purpose, they are also an eye-sore. Seeing boxy tags of any kind at any point on a page makes me think the article is incomplete or under construction of some kind. It just pulls me out of the right mindframe of reading and enjoying an article. What this proposal is hoping to achieve is to change the current naming standard to one that more clearly and generally explains the contents of an article, as well as remove the need for the above explained tag. Any form a character can become upon use of a power-up, such as Frog Mario, Metal Mario, Fire Mario, etc. will be re-named to "X Form". Proposer: Redstar (talk) Change Naming Convention for FormsLeave Naming Convention as it is
CommentsWhat about merging the forms with the items that cause them? That way, we can avoid the unofficial "X Form" names. The only possible problem with this is if different items are used to make the same form in different games. The only example I could think of off the top of my head, however, is Dragon Wario, and I think Wario-series forms should remain unchanged anyway, seeing as those powerups aren't exactly the same as in the core Mario series (and they're always unique to Wario, so the arguments about duality don't apply to them). - Walkazo (talk)
Change Gate Keeper back to Piranha Plant in the Generatorchange to piranha plant in the generator 5-0 Proposer: Dry Paratroopa (talk) Change back to Piranha Plant in the Generator
Keep as Gate KeeperCommentsIf it doesn't cover a general issue, only a singular one, I think this proposal would make more sense on the actual article's Discussion page. Redstar 19:51, 19 December 2009 (EST) It would, but I'm kind of against talk page Proposals, because no one ever votes to those. For example, in the very talk page we're talking about there's a Proposal there and no one's voted yet as far as I'm aware of. Dry Paratroopa (talk)
Featured Image Rulesuse current ruleset 3-4
Use this ruleset
Use current ruleset
CommentsThis ruleset should be easy to agree on considering it is composed of rules from the FA system... Marioguy1 (talk) I dont like rule 3, as it is kinda pointless, why would you remove votes if they dont need to have a valid reason? Tucayo (talk)
Sorry if this is kind of off-topic, but I have a different suggestion for a new rule: If the image with the most "positive" votes (i.e. support votes minus oppose votes) has less than 10 positive votes, it should stay nominated and instead one of the previous FIs should be featured again. Just wanted to throw that in. Time Q (talk) Time Q: So what happens when we run out of images to feature? I'm just wondering. Marioguy1: In your proposal, you wrote "No re-nominating an article for a month after it has failed." Don't you mean "image"? Just to avoid confusion. BabyLuigiOnFire (talk) }} Remove Minus World from Category:Glitcheskeep minus world there 1-9
Proper: Zero777 (talk) Remove Minus World
Keep Minus World their
CommentsCan this be removed? We have many, MANY proposals and this one will clearly not pass? Any toughts? Tucayo (talk) Yes it should be removed. It feels more like a joke proposal to me... Fawfulfury65 (talk)
Allow up to 8 Personal Imagesdo not allow 8 pi's 1-12 Proposer: Ralphfan (talk) SupportOppose
CommentsMerge All Golfers and Tennis Playersdo not merge 2-7 Proposer: Zero777 (talk) Merge
Do Not Merge
CommentsWhat about other random human sports players? I'm assuming you'd want to see the tennis players merged as well as the golfers (in a separate list page), for the sake of consistency. - Walkazo (talk) Hm, I think this proposal is a good example of why we should keep "Splits & Merges" proposals on this page. On which talk page would we put it? Time Q (talk)
I am Zero! The reason I said merge them is that there is really not that much to expand on most of them because they only made one or two appearences (most of them) in the Mario Golf and Mario Tennis series only. Zero signing out. Zero777 (talk) Would you mind making a short or complete list of which characters you mean? I did a cursory glance to try to find some of these characters, but didn't really pop up with anything. It'd be easier if you could show us who you mean. Redstar 17:53, 25 December 2009 (EST)
Changes to the coverage of Crossover Seriescanceled by proposer The games' articles already contain information about the playable characters, their bio and their special moves. The articles also explain all the stages, and all the items. The articles for the characters, items and stages are only repeating that information, and add very little to it like the trophy information. But the trophy information for all trophies can already be seen on Trophy Descriptions (SSBM). Thus, I think the articles are rendered a little bit superflous, and they would do better if simply merged with the main games' articles. This would not remove any substantial content about Smash Bros. from the wiki, it would just make us not repeat ourselves that often. I propose the following:
Not touched are:
If any content that is on the individual articles is not featured on the game's articles, it can be added with the merge. This is still a better solution than having huge amounts of duplicate content lying around all over the wiki. If this proposal passes, it will also _not_ change the way we handle Mario & Sonic content. Proposer: Cobold (talk) Support Changes
Oppose Changes
CommentsWhen you say "Merge non-Mario characters into the SSB articles" do you mean merging the characters into List of X articles or into the respective game articles?--Knife (talk) 20:21, 29 December 2009 (EST) I don't really fancy the idea of merging around two to three hundred articles, but if this gets merged, so should other crossover charactersr in other games, no? Reversinator (talk)
What makes stages less important than characters? - Cobold (talk) Hm... what are we going to do about SSB-related articles that also have some other interesting info, e.g. this one (cameos in SMRPG and MKWii) or that one (cameo in Club Nintendo)? Time Q (talk)
I really think you should redefine the proposal. The header is good, but the proposal itself seems to be targeted only towards the SSB series. Since you've included Itadaki Street and Tetris DS, you should probably define what kind of crossover series you are including in this proposal. Mario & Sonic is not affected, but what about Club Nintendo articles or Wario Blast? Will articles on crossover characters like Mametchi or Cactuar be effected? Second, shouldn't the character articles be merged elsewhere? The game articles are extremely long as it is.--Knife (talk) 12:49, 30 December 2009 (EST)
Should articles such as HAL Laboratory, Sora Ltd., and Masahiro Sakurai be merged into different articles as well, as they were only involved in making the SSB series, and not necessarily Mario? Garlic Man (talk)
@BabyLuigiOnFire & Fawfulfury65: This is not true. Characters such as Kirby would keep their article because they made notable appearances outside the SSB series. Imagine there were no SSB series at all, then Kirby would still have his article (because of his other appearances). So this proposal doesn't break consistency. Time Q (talk) But there is a SSB series, and so every character needs a separate article. BabyLuigiOnFire (talk)
Actually, it does break consistency if the proposal isn't expanded to include all crossover series, not only the SSB series. Split Category:Special Movescreate the category 12-1 Proposer: Tucayo (talk) Create the Moves category
All moves are special
CommentsPlease consider that the term "Special Move" comes directly from gameplay jargon and is not determined by how out-of-the-ordinary the action in question is. Wheter something is a normal move or a special move depends on how it is accessed and executed, not what exactly it is. If we split this category into two, then the Jump you mentioned would be in both categories. It is Mario's normal way of attack in most games, but in SMRPG gameplay, it qualifies as a special move. Because of this ambiguation, I cannot make my decision solely on the base of Jump. Do you have any other examples? - Edofenrir (talk)
I willget to this the 3rd or the 4th, if I cant. user:Tucayo
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