Talk:Spiny

Species Question

Are spinies considered to be koopas or beetles?--Fg 19:02, 2 February 2007 (EST)

Spinies are a tricky enemy. They have some characteristics of both, but I think they're Koopas, albeit four-legged ones. Phoenix Rider

They are Koopas, but I believe are a distant relative of Buzzy Beetles. They are kinda the bridge between the two species. -- Son of Suns

What could make this article better?

I spent a long time expanding the article, and I would like to know what could make it even better. Any suggestions? InfectedShroom. I have a long-time goal in mind...

The article is real nice, but the only problem is that there isn't enough pics. There really need to be more pics, and at least one pic in the Other Appearances section. Paper Jorge ( Talk·Contributions)·

Super Mario Galaxy 2 Prima Guide

In the Super Mario Galaxy 2 Prima Guide it referees to them as bugs. I think we should mention this. But it refrees Swoopers as bats, Hammer Bros. as koopa-like, Scuttlebugs as Sprongs and Big Boo as Mega Boo. Should we mention this.

The Prima Guides are often a bit flaky, as I don't think that they are made by Nintendo. I have the guide for NSMBWii and it calls Fishbones Wet Bones. I'd leave it for now. Supershroom + 20 HP! Yeah!

Gallery

We need a gallery for Spinies because there are a lot of images.--YoshiGo99 20:20, 14 March 2011 (EDT)

Merge Spiny with Spike Top

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

KEEP SPLIT 1-21

I think we should Merge Spike Top with Spiny. They are pretty much the same aren't they? The only difference is that Spike Tops have one spike.

Proposer: Superfiremario (talk)
Deadline: April 30, 2011, 23:59 GMT

Merge

1. It's-a-me-Mario! (talk) Per Superfiremario's proposal!

Keep Seperated

1. Goomba's Shoe15 (talk) Uh i hate to break it to you but Spiny and Spike tops are not the same in fact there not even part of the same species one is a Koopa and the other is a Buzzy Beetle
2. UltraMario3000 (talk) It's not like Spiked Goombas are merged with Goombas.
3. FourPaperHeroes (talk) Actually all three are a species of Koopa but Spike Tops are hardly related to Spinies, they're more closely related to Buzzy Beetles and they are different enough to remain a separate article.
4. Mario4Ever (talk) Per all.
5. DKPetey99 (talk) Per Goomba's Shoe15 and my comments below!
6. Tails777 (talk) Yeah, the 2 are too different. Per all.
7. YoshiGo99 (talk) Spinys don't have mouths and the shell is a lighter shade of red than the Spike tops. Spike tops have red eyes and crawl on walls and floors, and ceilings.
8. Walkazo (talk) - They are COMPLETELY different things. Different looks, different abilities, different names in every language, appearing side-by-side in the same games doing different things. Merging them would be completely mental.
9. Zero777 (talk) They are obviously two different species, per all.
10. Platform (talk) Spike Tops can't be killed with fire. They are in fact a cross between a Buzzy and a Spiny.
11. SWFlash (talk) The only similarity is that they're both have red shells, but that's it.
12. DK and Diddy Kong vs Bowser and Bowser Jr. (talk) Per Platform and SWFlash.
13. SuperYoshiBros (talk) Per all.
14. Reddragon19k (talk) Per all! Different looks, different names, everything!
15. MrConcreteDonkey (talk) - Completely different, per all.
16. Superfiremario (talk) Horrible Proposal
17. Steverocks27 (talk) Per all! Their only similarities are their red shells and that they both have more than 0 spikes!
18. Mikiuz (talk) Per all. The name of the Spiny is different to the one of the Spike Top in all languages and they are different species.
19. Mario304 (talk) Per all.
20. Ultrahammer5365 (talk) Per all. They are entirely different species. You can't merge 2 enemies based on vague similarities.
21. yoshiyoshiyoshi (talk)Silliest Proposal ever :P worse than merging Bowser with Barney Bubble :D

Comments

your date is wrong it ends on the 29th Goomba's Shoe15 (talk)

Actually, it ends on the 30th (at 23:59 GMT). - Walkazo 23:45, 15 April 2011 (EDT)

there clearly not the same thing just look at them Goomba's Shoe15 (talk)

Yes and Spike Tops are sub-species of Buzzy Beetles. If they were sub-species of Spinies then maybe we will have a stronger argument, but highly different! DKPetey99^TCE 14:54, 16 April 2011 (EDT)

These are buzzy beetles, as they have the same form. Spinies don't have a dark space in them between the eyes. Sorry buddy, but I won't vote, for the sake of the wiki.

-- Boo Who Plays Games Happy Easter! 16:34, 16 April 2011 (EDT)

No good proposal I made, eh? Superfiremario 15:45, 18 April 2011 (EDT)

Since the proposer is opposing and blocked(:-/), should this be deleted? Yoshiwaker 17:41, 18 April 2011 (EDT)

They are completly different. Spinies are immune to fire; Spike Tops are not. Besides, they are seperated in the New Super Mario Bros. Book and should be seperate hear. User:Phantom Bowser/Sig

Last time I played Super Mario Bros. I killed Spinies with Fireballs. IceShadow talk · edits) 18:47, 3 August 2012 (EDT)

images

I think the spiny article needs more images. R3D347H wuz here

Huh?

It says this article needs to be expanded to include more information, but there is nothing left to include. And it should be re-written in the correct verb tense, but it already has the same verb tense that we are supposed to use. Why?M&L Beware my fury! 20:18, 18 January 2012 (EST)

Problem I corrected.

I noticed that someone named the Mario Strikers section, the Mario Football series. This is the British and Australian name. I want to inform who wrote this that this the American Super Mario Wiki. I am not angered, but remember the American names next time. Thank you.

KingKamek (talk)

Well an old wiki policy did made it required to change the NTSC names to PAL names due to the game being released first on those regions. So you shouldn't really blame the editors for this. Ray Trace^(T|C) 01:54, 24 July 2013 (EDT)

I don't know what to tell you but Spinies in Paper Mario: Sticker Star are very hard to time when attacking you. Can't you just use a Frog Suit or a Super Boot Sticker so that way they don't hit you? But you have to have timing though or else you will get hit.
The preceding unsigned comment was added by Powow66 (talk).

Umm.. Weren't spinies in Dream Team?

I'm sure I've seen spinies in Dreamy Driftwood Shore once. Why doesn't it say it's in Dream Team?
The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kyleallt (talk).

Kirby series

Togezo is currently mentioned briefly in this article under names in other languages, but should it be expanded into its own cameo section a la The Legend of Zelda series? The Zelda enemy was confirmed to be a Mario-based element in the Link's Awakening Nintendo Switch remake through one of the Mario-related figures, despite its somewhat different appearance and behavior (though see Shy Guy). I think it's likely that the Kirby series enemy is in the same boat - it has two Japanese names which are both directly based on the English and Japanese name for Mario Spiny ("Spiny" in Kirby's Adventure and "Togezo" in Kirby's Dream Land 3), has a shell attack in Kirby's Adventure that would later influence a similar move by the Spiny enemies in Four Swords and The Minish Cap, and was replaced in the GBA remake (another enemy is believed to be replaced due to a similarity with another property). The only thing I'm unsure about is its design, which is redone in a style to better fit with the Kirby aesthetic, but if the same can be said of the later Zelda design and Spike Top can also inexplicably lose a set of limbs, so can Spiny. LinkTheLefty (talk) 07:50, September 29, 2019 (EDT)

I'd support treating the Kirby enemy as a cameo. Niiue - Who has lost his tail? 08:00, September 29, 2019 (EDT)

Sure. Mario JC 08:11, September 29, 2019 (EDT)

Yeah, I've been meaning to ask this for ages. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 13:19, September 29, 2019 (EDT)

Another point is how the KA attack greatly resembles the Spiny Egg attack in the first two Paper Mario games. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 23:48, September 29, 2019 (EDT)

All right, so consensus so far is to include it in the article proper, but I want to bring up one more thing I noticed for completeness' sake: on Japanese Wikipedia (and Wikia) pages, Spiny from Kirby's Adventure and Togezo from Kirby's Dream Land 3 are apparently considered to be two different enemies, with only the latter being the Mario enemy. However, I disagree with that assessment for the following reasons: 1) both names share the same exact root with the Mario enemy and it seems far more likely that Spiny was simply renamed to Togezo to make the connection more obvious to Japanese audiences, who would likely not be aware of the Mario enemy's English name, 2) the unnamed appearance of the enemy from Kirby's Dream Course depicts a middling design with traits of both the earlier and later Kirby appearances, and 3) while its offensive move was swapped with a defensive one (which is reminiscent of Spikey from Kirby's Dream Land 2), a couple of other regular enemies have had their attack patterns change over time (for example, Dekabu). If there are no objections, we'll consider them to be the same enemy like WiKirby. LinkTheLefty (talk) 13:53, September 30, 2019 (EDT)

The wikiA claims that JP supplemental material for KDC called it Supaini like KA. It went from Spiny Egg to Bony Beetle in my eyes. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 15:51, September 30, 2019 (EDT)

Not sure if I trust them, but I looked it up and it seems that there was a Shogakukan guide after all, so that info is probably correct. I'd liken this situation to how rigid Japanese Wikipedia generally is when it comes to name changes. LinkTheLefty (talk) 16:18, September 30, 2019 (EDT)

Well, I remembered that I actually happen to be the one who added said info there, back when I was active on Wikia. I just forgot all about it. So it must be correct. LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:40, September 30, 2019 (EDT)

Also, in case there's doubt, pages 287 and 295 of Playing with Power: Nintendo NES Classics call it Togezo. LinkTheLefty (talk) 11:40, October 15, 2019 (EDT)

Mario Movie name

I think it's a bit of a stretch that we are considering that the name of the Spinies the movie as Spiny Shells which came from... a tweet. Given how inaccurate this name is and how one-off that tweet was (there are instances of tweets being misspelled and such), I don't think we should use this as the actual name and we should refer to them as Spinies. Sure, the movie has some creative liberties on names but this one was likely an oversight from the Twitter account who probably accidently put Spiny Shells. That is unless the sequel decides to do that whithin the movie. --TheUndescribableGhost (talk) 19:43, September 8, 2023 (EDT)

Mario Kart

Have they ever appeared in Mario Kart. The only instant that I know of is the badges in Tour, but did they appear anywhere else?OngoingTalent13 (talk) 00:56, December 29, 2023 (EST)

Their shells sure have. Doc von Schmeltwick (talk) 01:20, December 29, 2023 (EST)

Refer to The Super Mario Bros. Movie Spiny Shells as Spinies

This talk page proposal has already been settled. Please do not edit any of the sections in the proposal. If you wish to discuss the article, do so in a new header below the proposal.

Refer to TSMBM Spiny Shells as Spinies 13-0

“Koopas! Goombas! Whatever those things are!”

—Bowser, The Super Mario Bros. Movie

Here is one of the most baffling things I've seen this wiki do, and that's to refer to the Spinies from The Super Mario Bros. Movie as Spiny Shells. For context, this name does not even appear in the movie (in fact, the joke Bowser doesn't even know their name) but rather, a single off-handed Tweet.

Edit 01/05/24: As it turns out, that's not the only instance as Koopa con Carne mentioned below. One Tweet states, "Spiny Shells we see you. #SuperMarioMovie is in theaters now - get tickets today!" Facebook and Instagram also called them that too. That does not necessarily change arguments that these are one-off instances, but now my proposal is a bit more accurate.

Now, I'm not sure how the movie's Twitter account goes. Still, I'm pretty sure this is a case of circular reporting where someone who managed the account mistook their name. Spinies had tons of precedent up to that point of being called what we refer to them today. Now, the movie gives some creative liberties on names, notably Bomber Bill. Still, at least that appears in the movie, while Spinies don't get a name-drop. We have a habit of using names from other sources. Still, for something like this, we can chalk this up as a simple error and not what the Spinies should be called in the movie unless the sequel wants to call them that. Even Nintendo has made mistakes in Tweets when naming their subjects. We really shouldn't use apparent mistakes like this as their proper name.

Proposer: TheUndescribableGhost (talk)
Deadline: January 18, 2024, 23:59 GMT

Support

1. TheUndescribableGhost (talk) Per proposal
2. Dark-Boy-1up (talk) Mistakes happen and that's fine, but that does not mean we have to roll with the error.
3. Camwoodstock (talk) Combined with the movie calling the Spiny Shell item from Mario Kart the "Blue Shell", rolling with the name "Spiny Shell" for these guys because of Exactly One Tweet feels rather silly. While we would understand if this was maybe more consistent, the fact it's literally just one tweet saying this in regards to a scene where the entire joke is that Bowser himself doesn't know what the name is, giving plausible deniability that perhaps the misname was an intentional joke (though not likely), doesn't exactly esteem us to the Spiny Shell name.
4. Waluigi Time (talk) There's already precedent for overlooking obvious goofs for established subjects like this, as long as it's still mentioned in the article. For example, the only NSMB2-related material that mentions Scuttlebugs and Crowbers is the Prima Guide which just calls them Spiders and Crows, but we still use their regular names while covering that game. If they were actually called this in the movie itself I'd most likely oppose, but like the Prima Guides, this comes from a source that's farther removed from the team that actually worked on the product.
5. Super Game Gear (talk) Per all.
6. PrincessPeachFan (talk) Per all. It's clearly an error and given that their names were never said in the film ("Whatever those things are!"), move it.
7. Mario (talk) The social media folks are probably not that particular about the names they were giving Spinies so IMO don't trip over a trivial thing and just call these Spinies.
8. Swallow (talk) Per all
9. Koopa con Carne (talk) Fine.
10. FanOfYoshi (talk) I mean, they're more than just mere shells in there, right?
11. Killer Moth (talk) Per all.
12. Mushroom Head (talk) Per all.
13. ThePowerPlayer (talk) Per whatever those things are.

Oppose

#Koopa con Carne (talk) They were called "Spiny Shells" in at least two different tweets by the Mario Movie account, not just one. (EDIT: on Facebook and Instagram too!) That's not to mention that, to my knowledge, neither of these instances of a supposed error have been corrected, unlike the Wiggler Wednesday thing and Ptooie being confused for another enemy. At this point, there's technically more evidence to suggest the name was a genuine creative liberty than there is in favor of it being unintentional. Almost a year ago there was a discussion surrounding "Construction Site Fight", a level title from Donkey Kong Land that many found to be 99% erroneous, and even that discussion had users extremely divided given that the title itself was maintained in later official material; I'd say we have even less reason to meddle with Spiny's given name for the Mario movie.

Comments

1. I'd like to reiterate what I said in my vote that the name was used in two separate tweets (and reiterated by official accounts on other social media sites). The proposer's claim that it only came from one tweet is plainly false.
2. @Waluigi Time, those tweets are the only official movie-adjacent material to namedrop Spinies. It doesn't matter that the movie creators' didn't come up with it, all that matters is that there is no other source (higher-priority or otherwise) to call them something else for the movie. For that matter, I disagree with how Scuttlebug's and Crowber's names are handled in info related to NSMB2, especially given how that's inconsistent with the treatment other subjects receive. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 15:44, January 4, 2024 (EST)

The Skewers in Donkey Kong Country Returns aren't actually Skewers, they're Skewer-like objects. Also, in the Japanese version of Sunshine, Pokey Heads were called Sanbo Headdo there. PRIMA's strategy guide for Galaxy 2 was referring to them by their actual Japanese translations. Also, it was determined for Crowbers that PRIMA was just using a generic term (I don't count the Scuttlebug because even MP7 called them Spiders). PrincessPeachFan (talk) 16:26, January 4, 2024 (EST)

"The Skewers in Donkey Kong Country Returns aren't actually Skewers [...]" Mario-franchise Skewers in general are borderline generic obstacles, they just happen to have a largely consistent design between games. Nobody objected to listing DKCR shafts on the Skewer page when it underwent the feature nomination process, and that's because they look like skewers, act like skewers, hurt the player like a skewer, therefore, for all intents and purposes, they're as much the skewers you see in Mario platformers as Frogs are frogs. The Pokey Head/Sanbo Head observation is splitting hairs--"Sanbo Head" is a direct, unadapted translation of their Japanese name so I don't really see your point. "it was determined for Crowbers that PRIMA was just using a generic term" If "crow" was a generic term and not, like, treated like a proper noun or something, fine--that is not what happened with "Spiny Shells" Spinies, however, as those 2 tweets gave them a different, but very much legit for all we know, name. As I said below, calling it an error is largely subjective. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 17:17, January 4, 2024 (EST)

It's exactly the same situation as the NSMB2 Prima Guide though, which is what I'm getting at, and just because it hasn't been applied to similar situations yet doesn't mean it can't be. (Neither of the examples listed are perfectly comparable though, Skewers never appeared in a DK game before and it's a different design, and Pokey Head was introduced with an erroneous name rather than being well-established and having a goof - whether that's extended to Pokeys as a whole is another can of worms.) Our views on this seem to be completely incompatible though so I don't see a need to personally discuss it any further. -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 16:35, January 4, 2024 (EST)

And yet, "spiders" and "Spiny Shells" being perceived as errors is subjective and unencyclopedic. A fan liberty. People in this proposal are using that line of thinking to argue against the highest-priority official sources that exist for these works, but that is par for the course on Super Mario Wiki. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 16:59, January 4, 2024 (EST)

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has consistently been established by reliable sources as being, in fact, a duck, then there's nothing subjective or unencyclopedic about continuing to call it a duck just because a less reliable source mistakenly called it a goose on a certain occasion. I'm all for correcting mistakes if the greater context of material from the franchise as a whole makes it clear that it actually is a mistake. That's all I have to say on the matter. -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 17:27, January 4, 2024 (EST)

"I'm all for correcting mistakes if the greater context of material from the franchise as a whole makes it clear that it actually is a mistake." It doesn't. Name changes can happen on a whim and can even be isolated cases. That does not make them errors. The movie doesn't call them anything, but there are 2 (two) different social media posts, both published 2 weeks apart and across multiple sites, that use that name. I'm really sorry, man, but your conviction that it's an error is quite simply unfounded. -- KOOPA CON CARNE 17:35, January 4, 2024 (EST)

I'm not sticking around for a debate, but I'll just point out Crowber's name usage in NSMB2 was agreed upon in this proposal. Nightwicked Bowser 21:12, January 4, 2024 (EST)

I know this is a bit off-topic, but the Ptooie thing isn't necessarily a mistake. Not entirely, at least. According to this tweet, the internal name for the plant's model refers to it as a Stalking Piranha Plant (TekutekuPackun), so that's probably why the tweet called them that. Besides, according to the article, they "do not blow any items in Time Trials or when the item settings are not set on Normal Items", and Ptooie's main gimmick is blowing on things, not walking (not all of them even walk), unlike Stalking Piranha Plant. Blinker (talk) 17:23, January 4, 2024 (EST)

From what I'm aware of, the main thing that differentiates a Stalking Piranha from a Ptooie is that occasionally, it stops walking and stretches out its neck for a couple moments, before it retracts its neck and start walking again. This is something the Piranha Plants in MK8's Riverside Park never do: they walk endlessly and keep items afloat by blowing on it, which only Ptooie does.
The internal filename is most likely where the confusion stems from (pun not intended), but it does make me curious what Nintendo of Japan called these Riverside Park Piranhas, since that would certainly add to it. rend (talk) (edits) 11:33, January 5, 2024 (EST)

Fire Stalking Piranha Plants don't do the neck-stretch thing, they only walk and spit fireballs in an arc, which implies walking is the main trait of the Stalking Piranha Plant. Anyways, as for what Nintendo of Japan calls the Riverside Park plants, I tried looking but couldn't find anything. Blinker (talk) 12:38, January 5, 2024 (EST)

My two cents? I don't mind either way for the "Spiny Shell" mention as long as it's made clearer to readers that it doesn't appear within the movie itself. We do that sometimes, where we say that "X is referred to in this game as Y", and then it cites a secondary source related to the game but not the game itself. I always thought that was a little odd. LinkTheLefty (talk) 19:15, January 4, 2024 (EST)