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Okay, [https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki_talk:Article_size I tried starting a discussion on this first], but the lack of debate on this is ridiculous. | Okay, [https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki_talk:Article_size I tried starting a discussion on this first], but the lack of debate on this is ridiculous. | ||
So basically, our article size policy has this weird exception stating that "''This policy does not apply to list or table pages such as [[List of | So basically, our article size policy has this weird exception stating that "''This policy does not apply to list or table pages such as [[List of locations|Places]] and [[Trophy Descriptions (Super Smash Bros. Brawl)]], just actual articles.''" I tried asking why this clause was made and the reasoning behind it (especially considering that lists are like, 700% easier to split than normal pages) but got nothing more than a single vague answer from [[User:Doomhiker|Doomhiker]]. ("''Happened because of a forum discussion.''" - What forum discussion, when the forum discussion took place, and the actual rationale behind it are still a mystery to me.) But what I find the most alarming is that so far, this exception has been violated twice in recent months; namely, for [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=List_of_tours_in_Mario_Kart_Tour&oldid=3724885 List of tours in Mario Kart Tour] and [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=List_of_favored_and_favorite_courses_in_Mario_Kart_Tour&oldid=3709229 List of favored and favorite courses in Mario Kart Tour]. [https://www.mariowiki.com/Talk:Spirit_(Super_Smash_Bros._Ultimate)#Split_page Spirit (Super Smash Bros. Ultimate)] was also split, but that had a proposal specifically for it, so I will let it slide. | ||
Rather than argue for re-merging those two list pages, I'm instead going to be arguing for the removal of this exception clause. From what I can tell, the policy was made back in the blissful perfect days of the early 2010s, back when the biggest article was [[Bowser]] and not several list pages on ''Mario Kart Tour''-related subjects. And the list pages we have now are ''massive''; the latter example that I gave that breached the list and table exception was over a ''million'' bytes long before it was split. When has something like that ever happened before on any wiki using any wiki-style across the internet including Wikipedia itself??? And even with the lists we have merged now, our current largest page ([[List of trophies in Super Smash Bros. for Wii U]]) is ''also'' a list and is twice as large as Bowser's article is now. This, this is ridiculous. Not only do these super long pages take full minutes to load completely and are impossible to edit concisely, but our policy explicitly states that we're not supposed to split them if they're lists, which [[Special:LongPages|several of our largest pages are.]] Considering the negatives of having massive several-hundred-thousand-byte-long list pages and the fact that lists are extremely easy to split into separate articles, ''and'' the fact that several of these articles (namely, the lists for Mario Kart Tour related stuff) show no signs of slowing down their growth, what reason is there to say that list pages ''shouldn't'' be split up a bit? | Rather than argue for re-merging those two list pages, I'm instead going to be arguing for the removal of this exception clause. From what I can tell, the policy was made back in the blissful perfect days of the early 2010s, back when the biggest article was [[Bowser]] and not several list pages on ''Mario Kart Tour''-related subjects. And the list pages we have now are ''massive''; the latter example that I gave that breached the list and table exception was over a ''million'' bytes long before it was split. When has something like that ever happened before on any wiki using any wiki-style across the internet including Wikipedia itself??? And even with the lists we have merged now, our current largest page ([[List of trophies in Super Smash Bros. for Wii U]]) is ''also'' a list and is twice as large as Bowser's article is now. This, this is ridiculous. Not only do these super long pages take full minutes to load completely and are impossible to edit concisely, but our policy explicitly states that we're not supposed to split them if they're lists, which [[Special:LongPages|several of our largest pages are.]] Considering the negatives of having massive several-hundred-thousand-byte-long list pages and the fact that lists are extremely easy to split into separate articles, ''and'' the fact that several of these articles (namely, the lists for Mario Kart Tour related stuff) show no signs of slowing down their growth, what reason is there to say that list pages ''shouldn't'' be split up a bit? | ||
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::Why should it matter if it's an update or a release feature? I don't get it. It's an official part of the game either way. [[User:Spectrogram|Spectrogram]] ([[User talk:Spectrogram|talk]]) 10:44, January 7, 2023 (EST) | ::Why should it matter if it's an update or a release feature? I don't get it. It's an official part of the game either way. [[User:Spectrogram|Spectrogram]] ([[User talk:Spectrogram|talk]]) 10:44, January 7, 2023 (EST) | ||
::I don't see how the transience of digital media is relevant at all, and covering only the update itself would be inconsistent with how the wiki conveys info on other console-exclusive, downloadable ''Mario'' content in non-''Mario'' media, such as ''[[Minecraft]]''{{'}}s Mario Mash-up pack. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 11:39, January 7, 2023 (EST) | ::I don't see how the transience of digital media is relevant at all, and covering only the update itself would be inconsistent with how the wiki conveys info on other console-exclusive, downloadable ''Mario'' content in non-''Mario'' media, such as ''[[Minecraft]]''{{'}}s Mario Mash-up pack. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 11:39, January 7, 2023 (EST) | ||
:::That's precisely why wiki coverage shouldn't extend to the game - in the long run, more and more people who play the Wii U version will simply not be aware that there ever was a ''Yoshi's (New) Island'' tie-in, and if anything, new players are likelier to experience it as a niche mod for the PC version. The game itself isn't/wasn't sold to feature a ''Yoshi''-franchise guest appearance. Covering Yoshi's Island Zone as an article independent of its game wouldn't be inconsistent with [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/58#Determine The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening and its reissues as a guest appearance and create an article covering all three versions and/or its Mario-related subjects|this proposal]] (which in fairness, hasn't been fully implemented yet, but that's partly due to the proposer). For that matter, although most of the article covers the Super Mario Mash-Up pack, I would say ''Minecraft'' barely applies for its own article because [[ | :::That's precisely why wiki coverage shouldn't extend to the game - in the long run, more and more people who play the Wii U version will simply not be aware that there ever was a ''Yoshi's (New) Island'' tie-in, and if anything, new players are likelier to experience it as a niche mod for the PC version. The game itself isn't/wasn't sold to feature a ''Yoshi''-franchise guest appearance. Covering Yoshi's Island Zone as an article independent of its game wouldn't be inconsistent with [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/58#Determine The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening and its reissues as a guest appearance and create an article covering all three versions and/or its Mario-related subjects|this proposal]] (which in fairness, hasn't been fully implemented yet, but that's partly due to the proposer). For that matter, although most of the article covers the Super Mario Mash-Up pack, I would say ''Minecraft'' barely applies for its own article because [[List of references in third-party video games#Minecraft (PC and multiplatform)|at least it had ''Mario''-franchise references long before its Nintendo ports]] - ''Sonic Lost World'' on its own has zero ''Mario'' references. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:25, January 7, 2023 (EST) | ||
::::There is currenty no other option: either the whole game is a guest appearance or it's not. You can always make a proposal if you wish to add a new option for some games. [[User:Spectrogram|Spectrogram]] ([[User talk:Spectrogram|talk]]) 12:54, January 7, 2023 (EST) | ::::There is currenty no other option: either the whole game is a guest appearance or it's not. You can always make a proposal if you wish to add a new option for some games. [[User:Spectrogram|Spectrogram]] ([[User talk:Spectrogram|talk]]) 12:54, January 7, 2023 (EST) | ||
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The Lake should also be excluded for the same reasons. It's Mario enemies and DK music. Path to the Ruins also is Mario-themed in music. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:30, January 14, 2023 (EST) | The Lake should also be excluded for the same reasons. It's Mario enemies and DK music. Path to the Ruins also is Mario-themed in music. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:30, January 14, 2023 (EST) | ||
:I've excluded The Lake, but not Path to the Ruins, because it features little to no Mario elements. [[User:Spectrogram|Spectrogram]] ([[User talk:Spectrogram|talk]]) 13:39, January 14, 2023 (EST) | :I've excluded The Lake, but not Path to the Ruins, because it features little to no Mario elements. [[User:Spectrogram|Spectrogram]] ([[User talk:Spectrogram|talk]]) 13:39, January 14, 2023 (EST) | ||