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Talk:Lakitu (character): Difference between revisions
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'''Note that there are two subjects that are being discussed in this talk page: the character in ''[[Mario Party Advance]]'' and the character in ''[[Mario Kart 7]]''. Due to the names of their articles, the discussions have ended up together.'''<br> | |||
Is this even necessary? He's a minor character with a very minor cameo in the Mario & Luigi games (and the unreleased Mario Kart 7) and all this information is on the page for generic Lakitus! Oh, and if this must stay, what about the Lakitu in BiS? --{{User:Technickal/sig}} | Is this even necessary? He's a minor character with a very minor cameo in the Mario & Luigi games (and the unreleased Mario Kart 7) and all this information is on the page for generic Lakitus! Oh, and if this must stay, what about the Lakitu in BiS? --{{User:Technickal/sig}} | ||
:In BiS the red-shelled Lakitu was replaced with a standard green-shelled one. -[[User:FourPaperHeroes|<span style="color:green">'''Four'''</span> <span style="color:grey">'''Paper'''</span>]] [[User talk:FourPaperHeroes|<span style="color:green">'''Heroes'''</span>]] [[File:FourPaperHeroes.jpg|35px]] 19:14, 26 November 2011 (EST) | :In BiS the red-shelled Lakitu was replaced with a standard green-shelled one. -[[User:FourPaperHeroes|<span style="color:green">'''Four'''</span> <span style="color:grey">'''Paper'''</span>]] [[User talk:FourPaperHeroes|<span style="color:green">'''Heroes'''</span>]] [[File:FourPaperHeroes.jpg|35px]] 19:14, 26 November 2011 (EST) | ||
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==Delete This Page== | ==Delete This Page== | ||
{{SettledTPP}} | {{SettledTPP}} | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|red|oppose 17-21}} | |||
As per the title. Seeing the argument above, how about we make an official proprosal. | As per the title. Seeing the argument above, how about we make an official proprosal. | ||
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===Remove Superstar Saga information=== | ===Remove Superstar Saga information=== | ||
{{SettledTPP}} | {{SettledTPP}} | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|green|support 14-0}} | |||
Well, let's see who else thinks the SS and MK7 red Lakitus are the same guy or not. (This can be deleted if the article ends up being deleted.) | Well, let's see who else thinks the SS and MK7 red Lakitus are the same guy or not. (This can be deleted if the article ends up being deleted.) | ||
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==Merge this to [[Lakitu]]== | ==Merge this to [[Lakitu]]== | ||
{{SettledTPP}} | {{SettledTPP}} | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|6-0|merge}} | |||
This article's existence has bothered me for some time so I decided to take action against it once and for all. | This article's existence has bothered me for some time so I decided to take action against it once and for all. | ||
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==Merge this page with [[Lakitu]]== | ==Merge this page with [[Lakitu]]== | ||
{{ | {{SettledTPP}} | ||
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|1-6|don't merge}} | |||
First of all, [[Lakitu (Mario Party Advance)|this Lakitu]] is the same character in this as he is with Lakitu. I believe it should get it's own section in the Lakitu page instead of having it's own article that is really the same character. Even if this Lakitu is a little different in this game, IT IS THE SAME CHARACTER, as I have said. I really ran out of ideas to say, but I think it is the best idea to get it merged. | First of all, [[Lakitu (Mario Party Advance)|this Lakitu]] is the same character in this as he is with Lakitu. I believe it should get it's own section in the Lakitu page instead of having it's own article that is really the same character. Even if this Lakitu is a little different in this game, IT IS THE SAME CHARACTER, as I have said. I really ran out of ideas to say, but I think it is the best idea to get it merged. | ||
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'''Deadline''': August 14, 2015, 23:59 GMT | '''Deadline''': August 14, 2015, 23:59 GMT | ||
==Support== | ===Support=== | ||
#{{User|PowerKamek}} Per my proposal. | #{{User|PowerKamek}} Per my proposal. | ||
==Oppose== | ===Oppose=== | ||
==Comments== | #{{User|Time Turner}} Same appearance and same name does not equal the same entity, as it has been proven in the past with [[Gritty Goomba]]. The Lakitu that is present in Mario Party Advance, alongside ''all'' of the other MPA characters, have distinct dialog, distinct quests, distinct rewards, distinct personalities, distinct characteristics, and so on and so forth. They have all of the makings of being unique characters; the only difference is the name and the appearance. After all, that's why [[Akiki]], [[Coach (Mario Party Advance)|Coach]], [[Goombetty]], [[Goombob]], [[Hulu]], and so on all have articles, right? Despite the game treating them the same as the rest of the other characters, they have unique names and unique appearances (and even that's contrived), so only they should have articles, right? From where I'm standing, that's not how it works at all, especially taking into consideration [[MarioWiki:Minor NPCs]], which states that the wiki "encourages making articles on offically named Minor NPCs"; even if the names aren't distinct, the characters are still named "[[Amp (character)|Amp]]" and "[[Thwomp (Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga)|Thwomp]]" and "Lakitu" and so on. If Coach gets an article, so does [[Cheep Cheep (character)|Cheep Cheep]], if Goombob gets an article, so does [[Goomba (character)|Goomba]], and if all of the other characters have articles (I should point out at this point that there's no way this proposal's going to pass if it only covers one character without covering everyone else that I've mentioned), so does Lakitu. Also, what are you talking about when you say that Lakitu's "the same character". The same character as what? The "character" in Mario Kart 7 which has already been merged for having no distinct characteristics (on this ''very'' talk page)? The actual Lakitu species article even though it's meant for covering the species and not all of its offshoots? Even if the MK7 character hadn't been merged, that wouldn't suddenly make it the same Lakitu that appeared in MPA. You're going to really have to elaborate on that. So, I'm going to always argue for keeping this article and all of the ones like it. | ||
#{{User|LudwigVon}} Per Time Turner. | |||
#{{User|Walkazo}} - per Time Turner, including that the title should be "Lakitu (character)", as per [[MarioWiki:Naming#Determining the identifier|SMW:Naming]]: "''If the same type of thing shares the same name across multiple games, use each game title as the identifiers''", and if only one thing and one game is involved, use "''What type of thing it is (e.g. [...] character)''". | |||
#{{User|Boo4761}} Per Time Turner | |||
#{{User|Yoshi876}} Per Time Turner. | |||
#{{User|RandomYoshi}} – Per all. | |||
===Comments=== | |||
It just really bothers me looking at articles that are the same character (Lakitu). The proposal Baby Luigi had earlier in time won and it was merged, and I have no idea why the heck this article isn't on the Lakitu article. Time Turner, there is a bit of confusion here, Lakitu is ALWAYS the same character no matter what game he is on. I just don't know why users have to always disagree with me on everything. If that's the case, I'm better off leaving. I try helping, making some articles, and making (some) useful proposals like this. I'm just kinda sad that some people are rude to me, like [http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=User_talk:PowerKamek/Archive_2&diff=prev&oldid=1832332 here] and [http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=MarioWiki%3ASandbox&diff=1841404&oldid=1841377 here]. I really want to stay on this wiki and help. I'm very sorry and I didn't mean to make anyone mad. Please don't get mad at me. {{User:PowerKamek/sig}} 23:37, 31 July 2015 (EDT) | |||
:PowerKamek, people like Torey (in that link) does not represent the MarioWiki community. As for Koopinator (in the other link), I have no idea how he managed to say that you're "very mean" and engage in edit wars and didn't get a warning over that. In this proposal, however, we are not hostile to you. We are simply disagreeing with your viewpoints. {{unsigned|Bazooka Mario}} | |||
::Hey hey hey hey, slow down. First of all, one or two users being jerks towards you is absolutely no reason to be discouraged. If someone starts insulting you, tell an admin immediately, because nobody has any right to treat you like that. Secondly, it is extremely important that you realize that not everyone's going to agree with you, but that does not mean that this is because of how they think of you. I've made tons of proposals in the past that have completely failed, and there are definitely still a few that I think should have passed. However, the community decided that some of the decisions I proposed would not go through, not because of a personal vendetta, but because they absolutely believed that those decisions were not to the wiki's benefit. That's why we have proposals; it's not a shouting match between people, it's a discussion between a community. If you make a proposal that doesn't pass, don't take it personally. At the very best, you should recognize the points made by the people who opposed it, decide to what extent you agree with them, and compromise from there. Nobody is mad at you, and nobody will ''ever'' be mad at you, for trying your hardest to be a part of the wiki. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} | |||
Thank you both. You are really good friends and you made me feel a lot better. I honestly don't mind if you guys opposed any of my proposals, I just thought you were mad at me by what you typed up in the oppose section. I am really shy and I can't think of anything else to say but what I said on the proposal. I am really a person who really has a hard time writing a whole big paragragh about something. But right now, I can elaborate more. Lakitu is the same character no matter what game he's in and this article really confuses me why it isn't merged with Lakitu. Mario Party Advance is a game right? I believe this article is better off being merged with Lakitu, since he is the same character as [[Lakitu]]. I dunno if Lakitu is a species, but I know he is a character in the Mario series. Thanks both of you for being a good friend. {{User:PowerKamek/sig}} 00:13, 1 August 2015 (EDT) | |||
:Nothing taken. And nah, disagreement doesn't mean we're mad. It's difficult to take criticism and accept a loss of your proposal, but consider that as an opportunity to gain experience. But, criticism is just criticism. Nothing personal or aggressive. We wouldn't advance in civilization without criticism. Anyhow, saying that "the Lakitu is the same individual in every game you see him" is a speculative statement. When we create an article on Lakitu, we create it on the species. We don't know if it's the same Lakitu or not since you see multiple Lakitus [[:File:4-5nsmbwii.png|in natural settings]] (e.g. not recolor multiplayer constructs like the [[MarioWiki:BJAODN/Characters#Mario (species)|Mario species]] <s>or Pink Donkey Kong Jr.</s>). I'm not sure if the "individual dialogue and personalities" is the best argument to keep characters split due to how the majority of enemies don't have a distinct name or design. Either way, I'd avocado rather to rename the modifiers in the Mario Party Advance character articles from (character) to (Mario Party Advance). Seems clearer to me. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 15:56, 1 August 2015 (EDT) | |||
::On their own, characters having unique dialog and personalities aren't enough for an article, but the culmination of all of the elements that I listed is what makes the MPA characters worthy of articles. For the move thing, [http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Penguin_(character)&action=history I just followed Steve's precedent] (this was made alongside a slew of other moves that changed the identifier from the game title to what the subject literally is), and there ''are'' generic Goombas/Koopas/etc. that appear in MPA, so I'd argue that the other identifier isn't clearer. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} | |||
:::I just saw it as a broader thing, especially when it comes to searches. Typing Koopa Troopa (character) doesn't immediately convey to the reader that it's the NPC from Mario Party Advance. I think using (Mario Party Advance) might be more precise about the character in question, since Koopas and Shy Guys and whatso have appeared as playable characters. All in all, despite the naming guidelines, "Koopa Troopa (character)" seems a bit misleading. Or, maybe we should do Koopa Troopa (Mario Party Advance character)? {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 18:32, 1 August 2015 (EDT) | |||
:I agree with Bazooka Mario. If we do use Koopa Troopa (character), well, character in what game? I think we should do something like Koopa Troopa (Mario Party Advance character), like Bazooka Mario said, so there won't be confusion. So shold we just rename this to "Lakitu (Mario Party Advance character)"? {{User:PowerKamek/sig}} 18:56, 1 August 2015 (EDT) | |||
::No. Either name it "Lakitu (character)" or leave it as "Lakitu (Mario Party Advance)". [[MarioWiki:Naming#Determining_the_identifier|As MW:Naming also outlines]], things should only be called "name (game thing)" if there's both multiple games and multiple types of things involved, otherwise just use or the other. Identifiers should be as simple and straightforward as possible. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 18:21, 11 August 2015 (EDT) | |||