Talk:CD

Split off the Super Smash Bros. CDs and move them to the Smash items article

This talk page section contains an unresolved talk page proposal. Please try to help and resolve the issue by voting or leaving a comment.

Current time: Monday, June 3, 2024, 22:50 GMT

There are two ways in which we can determine that these are clearly not officially considered the same thing.

Firstly, the trophies for the Super Smash Bros. CDs make no mention whatsoever of Wario Land 4, while for every other item they mention the game they originally come from - unless the item is original to Smash.

Secondly, the Japanese name of Wario Land 4's CDs, specifically marking them as Time CDs, as opposed to Smash's, which are simply "CDs".

Based on this, I don't think there's any reason for these two items to share an article.

Proposer: Ahemtoday (talk)
Deadline: July 11, 2023; 23:59 GMT

Support

1. Ahemtoday (talk) Per proposal.
2. Hewer (talk) Per proposal.
3. FanOfYoshi (talk) Per proposal.
4. CoolNintendo (talk) The Wario Land 4 CDs are definitely not the same as the Smash Bros. CDs.
5. SolemnStormcloud (talk) Per proposal.
6. Wikiboy10 (talk) Japanese names differ.

Oppose

1. Waluigi Time (talk) It's a generic real life object that behaves more or less how you'd expect it to in all of its appearances. I don't see a point splitting them.
2. MegaBowser64 (talk) They're both CDs. They're both collected within a stage and can be played later. Per Waluigi Time, I don't see a point splitting them.
3. Tails777 (talk) Per Waluigi Time.
4. Killer Moth (talk) Per Waluigi Time.

Comments

@CoolNintendo, does it matter if they are the exact same CDs? Baseballs are used in different games and contexts, but do we have separate articles for all of them? CDs are CDs. I understand your point of argument, but it just doesn't seem logical. BOWSER... (talk) 16:04, June 28, 2023 (EDT)

The difference is the Japanese name, which clearly indicates that the Wario Land 4 collectible is a specific thing and not a general subject. Ahemtoday (talk) 18:25, June 28, 2023 (EDT)

Maybe Time CDs are a specific kind of CD, but they're still CDs. I see where you're coming from, and maybe we should provide more distinction on the page, but I just don't think there's enough distinction overall to make two separate articles for two different kinds of CDs. This is unless, of course, you believe Time CDs aren't a specific kind of a more general CD at all but are instead a totally different object, not falling under the "CD" umbrella. We could have "Time CD" redirect to the "CD" page, but I don't really see anybody playing the Japanese version of Wario Land 4 and then translating the item name to English only to search for it on an English wiki. BOWSER... (talk) 19:53, June 28, 2023 (EDT)

So are Super Mushrooms, Dash Mushrooms, and/or Mushrooms the same item? Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 10:43, June 29, 2023 (EDT)

Not at all. Notice each of the items you listed are obviously distinct from each other, and quite major. For me, the biggest reason to keep CD and Time CD on the same page is simply because both of them are fairly minor items. It isn't black and white on when groupings of very similar items on the same page become categories (such as Category:Mushrooms), but they do. My opinion is that there simply isn't enough distinction between these two minor items to warrant a separate page each. BOWSER... (talk) 11:40, June 29, 2023 (EDT)

Whether you think the items are minor or not absolutely shouldn't be an argument for merging or splitting pages - even besides the obvious subjectivity of it, it's irrelevant to whether the items are different or not, which is what splits and merges should be based on. Also, the goal of this proposal isn't to give them separate pages, it's to move the Smash Bros. one onto the list of Smash Bros. items. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 13:10, June 29, 2023 (EDT)

That may be true, but my final (and most unavoidable) point to make is that Time CDs are CDs, and thus should be on the "CD" page. Since you haven't stated that Time CDs are not CDs, you must come up with an explicit reason for two very similar types of the same object to be dispersed onto two unrelated pages, which I have not heard. BOWSER... (talk) 15:21, June 29, 2023 (EDT)

Except that I already did - I refer you once more to Super Mushroom, Dash Mushroom, and Mushroom. Dash Mushroom in particular is a very relevant comparison, as it was referred to as just Mushroom in several games. And for the "two unrelated pages" bit, we'll have an about template on the top linking to the Smash Bros. CD, if that's your concern. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 03:15, June 30, 2023 (EDT)

My point with bringing up the Japanese names is: we don't cover Beastballs on the Baseball (object) article. Maybe we would if they were called "Baseballs", but they're not. And when it comes to this wiki, it's not the English name that counts in terms of being the same or different. There's mountains of precedent for that, but the one foremost on my mind is the Chestnut King Ahemtoday (talk) 21:26, June 28, 2023 (EDT)

You have a very good point. However, in this particular instance, "Time CD" still contains "CD", implying it is a type of CD, not a separate but similar item. BOWSER... (talk) 11:40, June 29, 2023 (EDT)

Japanese names are better used in addition to other points instead of being the sole deciding factor, and historically, covering things from an English-centric vs. Japanese-centric perspective has always been controversial. You could just as easily cite many proposals based on Japanese coverage that didn't pass - Yoshi's Island, Prince Froggy, and Bull's-Eye Bill had ones just this year. It's not something that can be used on a consistent basis - at least not without a major policy change - since the context surrounding each subject is going to be different.

In this case, the Japanese names being different is the only thing that this proposal has going for it. The Brawl devs most likely didn't have Wario Land 4 in mind when adding CDs, but at the end of the day, they're both collectibles based on a generic real life object that unlocks an in-game song when collected, and they share an English name. Since we already keep identical concepts that likely were thought of independently merged, I don't see any value in splitting these up. -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 13:19, June 29, 2023 (EDT)

It's not the only thing - the Smash trophies don't make any mention of Wario Land 4 and treat the CDs as a Smash-original object. The Time CD name is evidence against them just being shared generic subjects. Hewer (talk · contributions · edit count) 03:15, June 30, 2023 (EDT)

Like I said, I find it unlikely that they're meant to be the exact same CDs as the WL4 ones, but I'm also not too concerned about that because they're pretty much identical and we already keep subjects merged when developers independently come up with the same concept by coincidence. -- Too Bad! Waluigi Time! 12:24, July 1, 2023 (EDT)