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| == Are the Buzzards really Neckys? == | | == Are the Buzzards really Neckys? == |
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| Here's something that has been bugging me: the Buzzards from ''[[Donkey Kong 64]]'' are listed as Neckys, but have they ever been confirmed to ''be'' Neckys? The Buzzards look a little more like standard cartoon vultures than Neckys specifically to me. I understand some enemies underwent redesigns, such as [[Puftup]], but it's a bit weird that this is supposedly the only case where a pre-existing enemy was renamed for DK64 (unless you count [[Kaboom]]s being called "TNT Bombers" in the Prima guide). [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 00:09, February 1, 2024 (EST) | | Here's something that has been bugging me: the Buzzards from ''[[Donkey Kong 64]]'' are listed as Neckys, but have they ever been confirmed to ''be'' Neckys? The Buzzards look a little more like standard cartoon vultures than Neckys specifically to me. I understand some enemies underwent redesigns, such as [[Puftup]], but it's a bit weird that this is supposedly the only case where a pre-existing enemy was renamed for DK64 (unless you count [[Kaboom]]s being called "TNT Bombers" in the Prima guide). [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 00:09, February 1, 2024 (EST) |
| :: Yeah, I don't think so, either. They look so different from regular Neckies and there's also the fact that we refer to the "Buzzards" in Donkey Kong Barrel Maze as Neckies as well despite the fact that they look like regular vultures in that game. Plus, as for pre-existing enemies being renamed, only the manual calls Gnawties by that name as everything else (including the game) refers to them as Beavers. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:58, February 2, 2024 (EST) | | :: Yeah, I don't think so, either. They look so different from regular Neckies and there's also the fact that we refer to the "Buzzards" in Donkey Kong Barrel Maze as Neckies as well despite the fact that they look like regular vultures in that game. Plus, as for pre-existing enemies being renamed, only the manual calls Gnawties by that name as everything else (including the game) refers to them as Beavers. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:58, February 2, 2024 (EST) |
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| == Split ''Donkey Kong 64'''s Buzzard from Necky == | | == Split ''Donkey Kong 64'''s Buzzard from Necky == |
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| {{SettledTPP}} | | {{TPP}} |
| {{ProposalOutcome|passed|3-4-1|Split enemy Buzzard into its own article}}
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| This is an equivalence that I don't really understand. It's never been confirmed to be a Necky to my knowledge; really, the assumed connection seems to be based solely on the fact that it resembles a Necky, as though Neckys are the only cartoon vultures to have a white tuft around their neck and a bald-looking head. Also keep in mind that the two Buzzards only appear in [[Angry Aztec]], a desert, not unlike how it is a common trope for buzzards to be found in desolate wastelands. | | This is an equivalence that I don't really understand. It's never been confirmed to be a Necky to my knowledge; really, the assumed connection seems to be based solely on the fact that it resembles a Necky, as though Neckys are the only cartoon vultures to have a white tuft around their neck and a bald-looking head. Also keep in mind that the two Buzzards only appear in [[Angry Aztec]], a desert, not unlike how it is a common trope for buzzards to be found in desolate wastelands. |
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| '''Deadline''': February 18, 2024, 23:59 GMT | | '''Deadline''': February 18, 2024, 23:59 GMT |
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| === Merge Buzzard into Buzzard (character), rename to just "Buzzard" === | | === Merge Buzzard into Buzzard (character), rename to Buzzard (''Donkey Kong 64'') === |
| #{{User|DrippingYellow}} Per proposal. | | #{{User|DrippingYellow}} Per proposal. |
| #{{User|TheUndescribableGhost}} Huh. Really weird situation that nobody caught. I can see the honest doubt of these because a lot of sources don't even come close to calling them Neckies. I'm for merging the racer as well because I doubt Rare really cared about the distinction between these two and is awkward splitting. We can consider these guys either comparable or relatives of Neckies.
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| #{{User|MegaBowser64}} Per all
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| === Split enemy Buzzard into its own article === | | === Split enemy Buzzard into its own article === |
| #{{User|Hewer}} Per proposal on these as Neckies being speculation, but I disagree with merging it with the racing Buzzard since the appearance sets it apart quite a bit, and [[Goomba (Mario Party 4)|there]] [[Boo (Mario Party 4)|is]] [[Shy Guy (Mario Party 4)|prece]][[Koopa Troopa (Mario Party 4)|dent]] for splitting generically-named characters due to a unique appearance.
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| #{{User|PrincessPeachFan}}: It looks wildly different from Neckies.
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| #{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all.
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| #{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per all.
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| === Do nothing === | | === Do nothing === |
| #{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - All in all, the appearance of the enemy Buzzard is indictive of it being intended as a familiar enemy. As pointed out in the comments, the racing one looks very different, so it's probable that ''that'' one is not intended as a Necky at all, but a generic vulture, but that has no bearing on this one.
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| === Comments === | | === Comments === |
| Just wanted to say that the buzzards in Barrel Maze attack you with coconuts, like Neckies do in DKC. I think this association alone merits a mention in some way on this article. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 16:38, February 4, 2024 (EST) | | Just wanted to say that the buzzards in Barrel Maze attack you with coconuts, like Neckies do in DKC. I think this association alone merits a mention in some way on this article. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 16:38, February 4, 2024 (EST) |
| :Dang, I forgot that the Neckies threw nuts in DKC... Maybe the developers of the flash game were more in tune with the Donkey Kong lore than I initially suspected. [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 16:43, February 4, 2024 (EST)
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| I'm really unsure if merging the racing Buzzard with the enemy Buzzard is a good idea. The racing Buzzard looks quite different from the enemy Buzzard, with the racing Buzzard having brown feathers instead of black ones (with gray tips on its wings and tailfeathers), a purple-tipped beak instead of a red-tipped one, a slightly more vibrant pink skin complexion, friendly eyes with white sclera and yellow irises instead of menacing yellow eyeballs with tiny pupils, and most notably, an aviator helmet and goggles, with the enemy Buzzard doesn't have. Its appearance may be derived from an enemy Buzzard, but it's made distinct enough to be its own character. And if we have a separate article for [[Koopa the Quick]], which is essentially just a bigger [[Koopa Troopa]] that doesn't even have a unique name in Japanese, then I don't see why we should merge this Buzzard character which appearance clearly differs from the enemy Buzzard. {{User:Arend/sig}} 19:00, February 4, 2024 (EST)
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| :At least Koopa the Quick has a unique (English) name, though; if it weren't for that, it probably would be merged with Koopa Troopa. There's also many, many more Koopa Troopas other than Koopa the Quick, but only two Buzzards, both of which are involved in special events that give the player a [[Golden Banana]], regardless of their differing roles and appearances. It just seems like a hassle to have one article for a one-time enemy, and then have another article for the "notable member" of this one-time enemy's species, especially when they both have the same name. [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 20:31, February 4, 2024 (EST)
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| What do Japanese sources say on this? I'm not sure if it should be used since Rare is an English company, but I'm curious if these buzzards were localized as Neckies in Japanese source material. Honesty, I think we could go with part conjecture on this. EDIT: I guess that wouldn't work as that only applies to unnamed subjects. [[User:TheUndescribableGhost|TheUndescribableGhost]] ([[User talk:TheUndescribableGhost|talk]]) 23:16, February 4, 2024 (EST)
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| :I'm not sure about the racing Buzzard, but according to the Necky article, the enemy Buzzard also has a unique name in Japanese (ハゲタカ, translates to "vulture"), from an official guidebook. As you said, not like it changes anything since Rare is an English company, but still notable. [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 00:23, February 5, 2024 (EST)
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| @Doc von Schmeltwick What part of their appearance, exactly? The Buzzards do have a significant number of differences from Neckies: Neckies are brown, but the enemy Buzzard has black wings (only the racing Buzzard is brown); the Buzzards' stomachs are significantly lighter, and the colors on the tip of their beaks don't match in any way; neither of their eyes resemble those of Neckies. I'm aware that [[Puftup]]s underwent a similarly drastic design change, but at least they are ''called'' "Puftup". In the case of the Buzzards, who we only know to have been called "Buzzards", assuming either of them are Neckies just seems like speculation. [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 00:46, February 5, 2024 (EST)
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| :Mini-Necky was gray-black, though - I more mean the "this is a vulture and it looks evil" design philosophy, and the only differences you are listing amount to color choices. And Puftup's not the only one with a significantly different design in that game, either (Klaptrap, for another example). In this case, it just doesn't really appear enough to give it an opportunity to be named. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:23, February 5, 2024 (EST)
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| ::It's a vulture in a Donkey Kong game that looks evil, therefore it ''has'' to be a Necky, and could not have possibly been intended as anything else? These kinds of assumptions just do not sit right with me. Do keep in mind that neither Buzzard is a standard enemy: both are one-off characters triggered solely as part of a Golden Banana event, with one being a nuisance and one being a racer. Out of all the DKC1 enemies they brought back, why would the Necky of all enemies be chosen for a unique role? Why, out of all of the unique ''Banjo-Kazooie''-esque one-offs, are ''these'' a returning species? [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 12:20, February 5, 2024 (EST)
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| :::Alongside the game's various other recurring species? It still counts as an enemy, just a one-time enemy - you have to attack it for a reward. Anyways, as I have said in many other DK64 discussions before, the designers and developers are publicly reachable and like sharing details of the game's development cycle, so there's nothing stopping someone from asking for a more solid answer on this either way. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:47, February 5, 2024 (EST)
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| ::::Alright, I [https://twitter.com/DrippingYellow/status/1754586529387688005 tweeted something] at a few of the developers to try and get an answer, and I haven't gotten anything yet, even though the developers are active on Twitter/X and do reply to other stuff (from what I can tell, usually of their own volition and never from being tweeted at). We'll see, though... [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 14:07, February 6, 2024 (EST)
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| Why would the first option move the page to "Buzzard (''Donkey Kong 64'')"? There doesn't seem to be any other Buzzard pages that would make an identifier needed. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 11:50, February 5, 2024 (EST)
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| :I guess I was thinking of the Buzzards in ''[[Donkey Kong Country Barrel Maze]]''. Thinking about it now, I guess these one-off labels generally don't have priority over articles that are actually named these generic labels, so I guess just "Buzzard" would suffice. [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 12:26, February 5, 2024 (EST)
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| ::Just occurred to me that if we're gonna have two different Buzzard articles both about unique individuals, they'll probably need identifiers anyway, but not "(character)" or "(''Donkey Kong 64'')". Maybe "(enemy)" for this one? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 17:31, February 14, 2024 (EST)
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| The reason why I support splitting this from Necky is because like a couple of others have said, the Buzzard looks so wildly different, trying to say it is a Necky is just speculation and indicates that it's one of those things from the early days that was not noticed until recently. Also, even if it did get renamed, others got renamed too even if it's to generic names like Gnawties which are only called that in the manual with literally everything else calling them "Beavers." [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 13:14, February 5, 2024 (EST)
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